Cell Phone Activity Discussion Thread #2

[cityslick]

DB is good at spinning. She has honed the craft...but what surprises me is JI and his support. He had a phone the whole time. Yet when DB states her "Drama"..."we were looking for a phone to call 911.."I was screaming, "Call 911"..JI had a phone in his pocket. In his type of work that cell is his life line. It would be on him almost all the time.

There had to be some communications between them that evening. Maybe JI is the perp. Maybe he has a bad temper. I get that impression and it is my opinion.

One or both of these parents are covering for somebody. There are many dots and most can be connected to the parents. In fact, the only dot that doesn't fit is the MW cell phone call...but every other dot leads you right back to a parent.

The cell phones were disposed because they would ping at the house and anywhere they traveled to dispose. In order to make it seem like an intruder, they had to dispose of them. LE would want to know if JI/DB left, why they didn't take their cells with them, so to get over that hurdle, they tossed them...so they couldn't be tracked.

BBM

I'm sure other criminals would love to know how you actually kill someone when you can be somewhere else and accounted for.

 

[hambirg]

BBM

I'm sure other criminals would love to know how you actually kill someone when you can be somewhere else and accounted for.

I don't really think JI killed baby Lisa, but how long does it really take to harm a child? He was home roughly 25mins before the 911 call.


No firm answer exists as to the exact number of shakes necessary to create the clinical picture nor for how long a person might typically shake a child in abusive circumstances.... Shaking probably lasts a maximum of 20 seconds or less. In most cases the period of shaking is 5 to 10 seconds. To cause brain damage sufficient to allow clinical detection of the syndrome, severe forces must be used. On mechanical/physiologic grounds and by experience with perpetrators who have been convicted or confessed to the shaking, it is clear that to lift an infant and shake requires an adult or an adult-sized person.
http://www.dontshake.org/sbs.php?topNavID=3&subNavID=21&navID=21#3

 

[cityslick]

I don't really think JI killed baby Lisa, but how long does it really take to harm a child? He was home roughly 25mins before the 911 call.


No firm answer exists as to the exact number of shakes necessary to create the clinical picture nor for how long a person might typically shake a child in abusive circumstances.... Shaking probably lasts a maximum of 20 seconds or less. In most cases the period of shaking is 5 to 10 seconds. To cause brain damage sufficient to allow clinical detection of the syndrome, severe forces must be used. On mechanical/physiologic grounds and by experience with perpetrators who have been convicted or confessed to the shaking, it is clear that to lift an infant and shake requires an adult or an adult-sized person.
http://www.dontshake.org/sbs.php?topNavID=3&subNavID=21&navID=21#3

I thought it was 15 minutes (3:45am - 4pm)? It takes longer than 15 minutes to hide a body though.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

BBM Why not just leave the phones at home IF they were disposing of Baby Lisa?

MOO ...

1. Because that would make it MORE BELIEVABLE that an "intruder" came in and "kidnapped" Lisa -- AND -- STOLE the cell phones that were laying there on the counter ... So ... not only did the "intruder" take the baby ... the "intruder" took the cell phones as well ...

:seeya: And I am NOT buying this "theory" ... a "kidnapper" would NOT want any electronic devices that have any sort of "pings" or tracking devices that could link the "kidnapper" to the Bradley/Irwin cell phones ...


2. Maybe there was some incriminating info contained on the cell phone -- like photos, voicemails ... info that would NOT be retrievable by the cell phone provider ...

:seeya: IMO ... this is "possible" but not "probable" ... I don't know if DB or JI would have had the time to "think this theory out" ... OR ... IF they did think about "incriminating info" on the phone, they did NOT want LE to know about ...


Which IMO ... the "disappearance" of the cell phones along with Baby Lisa takes me right back to "square one" -- DB or JI ...


MOO MOO and another MOO ...

 

[cityslick]

MOO ...

1. Because that would make it MORE BELIEVABLE that an "intruder" came in and "kidnapped" Lisa -- AND -- STOLE the cell phones that were laying there on the counter ... So ... not only did the "intruder" take the baby ... the "intruder" took the cell phones as well ...

:seeya: And I am NOT buying this "theory" ... a "kidnapper" would NOT want any electronic devices that have any sort of "pings" or tracking devices that could link the "kidnapper" to the Bradley/Irwin cell phones ...


2. Maybe there was some incriminating info contained on the cell phone -- like photos, voicemails ... info that would NOT be retrievable by the cell phone provider ...

:seeya: IMO ... this is "possible" but not "probable" ... I don't know if DB or JI would have had the time to "think this theory out" ... OR ... IF they did think about "incriminating info" on the phone, they did NOT want LE to know about ...


Which IMO ... the "disappearance" of the cell phones along with Baby Lisa takes me right back to "square one" -- DB or JI ...


MOO MOO and another MOO ...

If they were trying to stage an abduction/robbery, why not try to hide other more 'valuable' stuff, like jewelery? Why not try to hide their wallets?

 

[hambirg]

I thought it was 15 minutes (3:45am - 4pm)? It takes longer than 15 minutes to hide a body though.

I thought the 911 call was at 4:10. . .I could be wrong though. Yes, it does take some time to hide a body. . how long, idk?

 

[krimekat]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150977"]Lisa Irwin-Timeline - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Here is the Time Line thread . . .

 

[Elley Mae]

I don't really think JI killed baby Lisa, but how long does it really take to harm a child? He was home roughly 25mins before the 911 call.


No firm answer exists as to the exact number of shakes necessary to create the clinical picture nor for how long a person might typically shake a child in abusive circumstances.... Shaking probably lasts a maximum of 20 seconds or less. In most cases the period of shaking is 5 to 10 seconds. To cause brain damage sufficient to allow clinical detection of the syndrome, severe forces must be used. On mechanical/physiologic grounds and by experience with perpetrators who have been convicted or confessed to the shaking, it is clear that to lift an infant and shake requires an adult or an adult-sized person.
http://www.dontshake.org/sbs.php?topNavID=3&subNavID=21&navID=21#3

I did not know this. I am not disputing, but wow that changes everything as far as JI is concerned.
He may very well have an alibi as far as being at work but I didn't know he had that much time between work and 911.

 

[cityslick]

I did not know this. I am not disputing, but wow that changes everything as far as JI is concerned.
He may very well have an alibi as far as being at work but I didn't know he had that much time between work and 911.

There is still the issue of hiding the body after the fact and I don't think that could of happened after 3:45am IMO. Were they not banging on people's doors after he got home but before they called LE?

 

[dog.gone.cute]

If they were trying to stage an abduction/robbery, why not try to hide other more 'valuable' stuff, like jewelery? Why not try to hide their wallets?

Because they were NOT trying to make it look like a robbery ...

They were making it look MORE LIKE A "kidnapping" ...

Hmmm ... do "kidnappers" usually take wallets, jewelry, and other valuables ?

JMO ... but I think the idea of the cell phones "missing" was an "after-thought" ...

MOO ...

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I did not know this. I am not disputing, but wow that changes everything as far as JI is concerned.
He may very well have an alibi as far as being at work but I didn't know he had that much time between work and 911.

BBM: Yep ... JI did NOT immediately call 9-1-1 .. and IMO, he had enough time to "hide" the body ...

Also ... JMO ... but it is "possible" that "something" could have happened to Lisa BEFORE he went to work at 5:30 p.m.

Again ... JMO ...

 

[indepmo]

BBM

My police scanner audio file is on youtube and posted on WS here:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7225816&postcount=2"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Police Dispatch Tapes[/ame]

The first part of the audio clip is the dumpster fire dispatched by the Kansas City Missouri Fire Department, the second part of this audio clip is the call dispatched by the Kansas City Police Department at 4:04am when it is reported by the father, Jeremy Irwin.

 

[Donjeta]

Why did it take so long to call 911?

 

[cityslick]

Why did it take so long to call 911?

20 minutes? According to the parents, they initially went outside to look for her?

 

[In da Middle]

Why did it take so long to call 911?

So long? This only leaves a few minutes to get in the door and even realize something is amiss, a few minutes of searching the house, a few minutes to go next door, bang on the door, wait for neighbor to answer the door, confirm the baby is not there, then call 911 and explain all of the above. The 911 call would have taken place before the 4:04 dispatch and no telling what the lag time was between the start of the 911 call and when dispatch was given. How long should all of this take? If it was any quicker, people would have been screaming that he already knew the baby wasn't there as he called too quick.

 

[Donjeta]

20 minutes? According to the parents, they initially went outside to look for her?

She was ten months, it was a foregone conclusion that she was not going to be found hanging out in the backyard. IMO.

 

[Donjeta]

So long? This only leaves a few minutes to get in the door and even realize something is amiss, a few minutes of searching the house, a few minutes to go next door, bang on the door, wait for neighbor to answer the door, confirm the baby is not there, then call 911 and explain all of the above. The 911 call would have taken place before the 4:04 dispatch and no telling what the lag time was between the start of the 911 call and when dispatch was given. How long should all of this take? If it was any quicker, people would have been screaming that he already knew the baby wasn't there as he called too quick.

Maybe it's just me but I would be on the phone to 911 the second I realize that the door was open, the window has been tampered with. the lights are on, my significant other says it wasn't like that when they went to sleep and there is a baby missing. I wouldn't waste a few minutes doing this and that, it would be total panic immediately.

 

[matou]

The call dispatcher doesn't mention anything about missing items i.e the cell phones. Understandable since the missing child is the focus. Mentions the window and that the caller didn't 'witness anything'. However, it is strange since the parents claimed the phones were missing so they "couldn't call anyone" or call 911 in interviews later on.

 

[indepmo]

We've seen how small town news stations have reported inacurate information in the past.

Going with local KSHB (NBC affiliate here in Kansas City), they are reporting JI returned hom from work at 4am.

Mainstream ABC also reported 4am.

NBC 41:
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...lice-search-area-near-lisa-irwin's-home-again

ABC (comment in photo)
http://abcnews.go.com/US/slideshow/search-missing-baby-lisa-irwin-14691681

The Branson, Missouri station in the timeline says 3:30am.

WPTV in West Palm Beach, FL reported 2:30am.
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/nation...nce-of-baby-lisa-irwin,-according-to-a-source

I'm sticking with the 4am accounts.

 

[indepmo]

So long? This only leaves a few minutes to get in the door and even realize something is amiss, a few minutes of searching the house, a few minutes to go next door, bang on the door, wait for neighbor to answer the door, confirm the baby is not there, then call 911 and explain all of the above. The 911 call would have taken place before the 4:04 dispatch and no telling what the lag time was between the start of the 911 call and when dispatch was given. How long should all of this take? If it was any quicker, people would have been screaming that he already knew the baby wasn't there as he called too quick.

Priority call such as this are never delayed, it's relayed and dispatched when they receive the call. Non injury accident calls are delayed, theft from vehicle calls are delayed, stolen auto reports are delayed, noise disturbances are delayed etc. A couple of other incidents that are relayed and dispatched without delay include shootings, armed robberies, stabbings, injury accidents, and without a doubt kidnapping.