Chloroform in the trunk of caseys car

[Amberjack]

Chloroform is also listed on packaging as Methane...and a few other chemicals.

Methane is used in A/C?
One of the guys was in new home contracting-A/C.

 

[mrstewart]

Methane is used in A/C?
One of the guys was in new home contracting-A/C.

I do not know...I know Freon is used in AC (only because mine leaks).

 

[leophoenix]

Theory:
Little girl in the trunk put to sleep with a small amout of Chloroform at night.
She wakes up and either drinks the chloroform from the bottle left in the
trunk or knocks it over spilling into the entire trunk.

We know KC isn't brilliant and may have left an entire bottle sitting the trunk after she put the child to sleep.
Being a former club person I can attest that whatever you want is available easily in those setting. If one can
actually get high on chloroform it would be as easy to find as asking around.

Google Chloroform Taste: Listed as a slightly pungent sweet taste. May
taste good?

 

[MagnoliaMom]

sorry if this has been discussed but 41 pages is too many to look through to see.

if there was a high level of chloroform in the trunk, wouldn't it have had to been put there close to the time they tested it? otherwise i would assume it would have evaporated or been at a very low level by the time they tested it. if it was being used as a cleaning agent, wouldn't one need a very good mask while doing this to keep from knocking themselves out?

could you even get in and drive it after this? wouldn't it seep into the interior of the car? i can spill gas on the outside of the car and it smells like i got it all in the interior.

 

[carole]

sorry if this has been discussed but 41 pages is too many to look through to see.

if there was a high level of chloroform in the trunk, wouldn't it have had to been put there close to the time they tested it? otherwise i would assume it would have evaporated or been at a very low level by the time they tested it. if it was being used as a cleaning agent, wouldn't one need a very good mask while doing this to keep from knocking themselves out?

could you even get in and drive it after this? wouldn't it seep into the interior of the car? i can spill gas on the outside of the car and it smells like i got it all in the interior.

The chloroform smell and the decomp smell could be the reason she decided to abandon the car.

 

[princess]

Theory:
Little girl in the trunk put to sleep with a small amout of Chloroform at night.
She wakes up and either drinks the chloroform from the bottle left in the
trunk or knocks it over spilling into the entire trunk.

We know KC isn't brilliant and may have left an entire bottle sitting the trunk after she put the child to sleep.
Being a former club person I can attest that whatever you want is available easily in those setting. If one can
actually get high on chloroform it would be as easy to find as asking around.

Google Chloroform Taste: Listed as a slightly pungent sweet taste. May
taste good?

In that case, she would not have waken up to drink Chloroform accidently, she would have died within a few hours in our Humid, Florida Heat even at night..

 

[BondJamesBond]

I'm worried that, unless LE can directly connect Casey to the chloroform, there will be room for the defense to wiggle out (e.g. Ricardo partied with it, left/spilled some in her trunk w/o her knowing) blah, blah. It wouldn't have to be based an argument based on fact...just enough to plant a seed of doubt w/ the jury.

Say, the specific gravity of chloroform is ~1.5, which means its ~50% heavier than water. Which means if any remaining evidence were poured down the drain @ G&C's there's a decent chance there would still be a pool of it in the p-trap of the sink drain.

Ya think LE'd go pound on the door @ 3AM again and have a plumber pull the p-traps from the drains on all their sinks & bathtubs, etc?

 

[not_my_kids]

Here's a thought. Aren't chloroform bottles pretty small? maybe she wasn't using the shovel to bury something big, but to dig up something small. MAybe she had buried the chloroform in the yard and then dug it up the day she borrowed the shovel. Tosses the bottle in the trunk and it later breaks, spilling all over the inside of the trunk. That is one of the only ways that I can think of that it would have been strong enough inside the car for the air tests to find massive amounts. It's supposed to break down and evaporate fairly fast when exposed to air.

 

[treeseeker]

Someone asked a few posts back how the maggots and flies survived the chloroform in the trunk. I think the test LE did may have been a residue test, but I can't find anything to confirm this. The scientist interviewed for the news report clarified that it was vaporized chloroform, not an accidental by-product of other chemical reactions. The only way I see to reconcile this is that there was residue of some sort from the evaporated chloroform, not actual vapor. But I am not a chemist!

 

[Jolynna]

I think Casey googled chloroform before Caylee went missing.

I don't think she used it to clean. This is what you get when you google uses of chloroform. Not much about getting high or making babies sleep:

http://www.yourdictionary.com/chloroform
Two uses:
a toxic, carcinogenic, colorless, volatile liquid, CHCl, with a sweet taste, used as a solvent, fumigant, etc. and, formerly, as a general anesthetic
Etymology: Fr chloroforme: see chloro- & formyl
transitive verb

1. to anesthetize with chloroform
2. to kill with chloroform

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article615069.ece
A RADIOGRAPHER drugged his daughter with antidepressants then suffocated her with a chloroform-soaked rag in re- venge for an affair his wife was having with a part-time judge, a court was told yesterday

http://www.taxidermy.net/forums/BeginnersArticles/01/i/01224C4A30.html

This is a very humane way to dispatch of any living creature

 

[gemma]

I'm having some trouble with chloroform as a rec drug OR o put Caylee to sleep. Most women who drug their kids use benedryl. It's dangerous, too. But, it's legal, easy to find, and it doesn't smell.

As a rec drug, it's foul. The high is short, but the severe headache and nausea and vomiting are long.

I'n sure KC is not on meth, because of those teeth.

So.. I really can't figure out the chloroform.

…about the meth theory. From personal experience, not all meth users look like the “faces of meth” tragedies you see on the computer.

In college, I knew a girl who fell into the meth/drug scene heavily for an extended period of time. She was skinny, popular and gorgeous. Superficially, she managed to keep her looks and a high GPA but for a while showed signs of impulsivity, hallucinations, paranoia, etc. Luckily for her, she kept her perfectly white, straight teeth, beautiful skin and hair and managed to drop it cold turkey and return to reality. They say that often times “meth mouth” – rotten teeth – comes from prolonged bad hygiene, not the actual meth.

Despite common belief, "meth mouth" is not due to methamphetamine being acidic or corrosive or that some sort of contamination is present in the methamphetamine from manufacture of it, methamphetamine isn't acidic or corrosive and meth mouth has been observed in people who abuse pharmaceutical grade methamphetamine. It's most likely due to common characteristics of heavy methamphetamine use. According to the American Dental Association, meth mouth "is probably caused by a combination of drug-induced psychological and physiological changes resulting in xerostomia (dry mouth), extended periods of poor oral hygiene, frequent consumption of high calorie, carbonated beverages and tooth grinding and clenching."

Aside from that, Casey’s behavior was completely typical of those running in this meth crowd. Although she also reminds me of patients I had with personality disorder. Whatever the case, something clearly is wrong and the pressure needs to stay on this family. Just my opinion.

 

[treeseeker]

gemma, off topic for just a moment. Do you have an opinion on meth actually causing a personality disorder? I've read one or two of Casey's friends mention a recent change in her behavior.

 

[txsvicki]

Here's a thought. Aren't chloroform bottles pretty small? maybe she wasn't using the shovel to bury something big, but to dig up something small. MAybe she had buried the chloroform in the yard and then dug it up the day she borrowed the shovel. Tosses the bottle in the trunk and it later breaks, spilling all over the inside of the trunk. That is one of the only ways that I can think of that it would have been strong enough inside the car for the air tests to find massive amounts. It's supposed to break down and evaporate fairly fast when exposed to air.

I had thought she might be burying stolen money on the 17th, but after the chloroform revelation it's possible she was digging it up. I don't think the bottle spilled in the trunk though, I think it was residue or vaporized from being used on Caylee since there is also hair, dirt, a stain, and decomp smell in the trunk.

 

[leophoenix]

In that case, she would not have waken up to drink Chloroform accidently, she would have died within a few hours in our Humid, Florida Heat even at night..

Not necessarily consider this case.
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/4051562/detail.html
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20040914-1254-trunk-mom.html
(Child was left in the trunk for four hours while parents partied)

Checked temperature Archive: 74F Humidity 78% his parents locked him in a trunk at least 3 times. (Luckily he was ok). Considering also that he was found with a sleeping bag etc they let him sleep in the car for hours probably while partying suggesting perhaps this was common.


With this case the temp would have been around: 73F Humidity 75%

So not improbable because of the temperature/humidity

Considering that I was part of a heavy party scene when I was in my early-mid 20's the party usually starts at 10pm+ for it to have time to get the above temp. For instance one may wear a t shirt and shorts during the day but at night when it was time for the events to start one may have to travel with a light jacket or long sleeved shirt.

Someone asked how the Chloroform could have stayed in the trunk for days. I'm not completely sure about the full chemical properties of chloroform with heat but, I used a liquid carpet cleaner one summer in my trunk and it took about two weeks for it to completely dry out because the trunk built up condensation on the lid. This fell back into the trunk. This was in South Carolina during the summer with the temps in the high 90's-101.

 

[monoxide]

Chloroform is used a lot to drug a victim and then rape/molest them. I remember seeing a guy who was doing the same thing except one of the children woke up during the molestation. The next time he decided to use a little more and ended up killing the kid.

 

[concentric]

sorry if this has been discussed but 41 pages is too many to look through to see.

if there was a high level of chloroform in the trunk, wouldn't it have had to been put there close to the time they tested it? otherwise i would assume it would have evaporated or been at a very low level by the time they tested it. if it was being used as a cleaning agent, wouldn't one need a very good mask while doing this to keep from knocking themselves out?

could you even get in and drive it after this? wouldn't it seep into the interior of the car? i can spill gas on the outside of the car and it smells like i got it all in the interior.

---------------------------------
I think she put it on Caylee after she was dead to make it look more like a kidnapping.

 

[concentric]

Chloroform is used a lot to drug a victim and then rape/molest them. I remember seeing a guy who was doing the same thing except one of the children woke up during the molestation. The next time he decided to use a little more and ended up killing the kid.

--------------
Absolutely--can think of many cases, such as Gacy where he used it to knock out the young man who he eventually dumped out of the car.

 

[concentric]

OK, there still is the question in my mind: Could Caylee have been murdered by someone else when Casey left her in the car asleep? There is no way to find this out until Caylee's body is found. Maybe this is the information Padilla is thinking she told her parents.

 

[maconrich]

I'm sorry if this has already been posted, but looking thru the cold case section I came upon a thread regarding "chloroform used in abductions/murders". Just starting to read (it's a 2 page thread), but it looks extremely interesting and informative.
Link:
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33539

 

[txsvicki]

--------------
Absolutely--can think of many cases, such as Gacy where he used it to knock out the young man who he eventually dumped out of the car.

My Grandmother swore that years ago one of the farmhands chloroformed her through the screenless farm window where she slept and stole her diamond wedding ring off her finger. The ring and he were gone the next day.