Christmas photos

[Ravyn]

I remember talks in this forum that unrine stains were found on the bed showing a bedwtting problem.

 

[Ravyn]

Now if anyone needs a recap on sheets being stained go to my Theories post we talk about it there and sheets were talked about not a pillowcase.

 

[Tadpole12]

Hi Ames.

oh, that's interesting about the stain on the pillow.
It's taken me a lot of rereading just to try and rememebr all those 'details'.

Hi Ravyn.

also, iirc, JBR was said to have been sick and resting in bed? at the least spent an afternoon in bed?

and kids always do have those favorite pyjamas which they ask for when they're sick or sad.

 

[Ames]

Now if anyone needs a recap on sheets being stained go to my Theories post we talk about it there and sheets were talked about not a pillowcase.

Hi Ravyn...it was a bloodstain on the pillowcase, not a urine stain. And Patsy was asked about it in one of her interviews. Haney asked her if JB ever had nighttime nosebleeds...and then went on to talk about the bloodstain.

 

[Ames]

I remember talks in this forum that unrine stains were found on the bed showing a bedwtting problem.

I don't remember ever reading about the stains...but have no doubt that there were urine stains on her sheets...showing a bedwetting problem. Because LHP said that JB wet the bed alot. IMO..it was the bedwetting that caused..."toilet rage" with Patsy...and that is when things started to go downhill...to say the least.

 

[Ravyn]

ty,for the blood stain on the pillow,guess that is why PR said I don't see any blood,do you talking to LE

 

[Ravyn]

See I thought with everyone here was talking about the perxiode smell cause hinding evidence of blood in JBR room.And honsetly I never read anything blood on the pillow.

 

[Ames]

ty,for the blood stain on the pillow,guess that is why PR said I don't see any blood,do you talking to LE

Actually Patsy was talking about the curtains that were above JB's headboard. (There wasn't a window there, they apparently were for decoration). That what she said when Haney showed her a picture of the curtains.

She told Haney that JB never had night time nose bleeds, though. So, where did that bloodstain on the pillow come from? (It wasn't clear if it was on the pillowcase, or the actual pillow itself, from leaking through the pillowcase at some point and time). IMO...after Patsy had severely injured JB in her "rage attack"...I believe that she screamed...this was the scream that the neighbor heard...she picked JB up and placed her on the bed, and screamed from John. I have posted articles and links before..that shows that in the case of a severe headblow....and JB's was most certainly severe...the nose, ears, and/or mouth will bleed. Any, or all the above. I believe that this is where the bloodstain came from.

 

[Ames]

See I thought with everyone here was talking about the perxiode smell cause hinding evidence of blood in JBR room.And honsetly I never read anything blood on the pillow.

It is in Patsy's 98 interview. If you can't find it...I will post it for you, so that you will not have to search all night looking for it.


......................

Below is a post from me, from a thread that I started on WBS titled..."Did JB Have A Nosebleed The Night That She Died?"

13 PATSY RAMSEY: Pillows and things. Yeah,

14 this is the little pillow (inaudible). Her Christmas

15 doll.

16 TOM HANEY: That is 73, 74, 75, and 76 now.

17 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible).

18 TOM HANEY: That I couldn't tell you right at

19 this moment. Do you remember any staining on that

20 pillow the night you put her to bed?

21 PATSY RAMSEY: No. It was dark in there, you

22 know.

23 TOM HANEY: When you put her to bed did you

24 turn on any lights that night, Christmas night.

25 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think so. Maybe. I

0426

1 can't remember. I remember dressing her, her pajamas

2 pants on her. It was dark. I didn't turn on the

3 bright lights because I didn't want to wake her up.

4 TOM HANEY: But back up. John had carried

5 her up and put her on the bed, and then you took it

6 from there?

7 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.

8 TOM HANEY: But you never turned on the

9 light?

10 PATSY RAMSEY: I probably turned one on in

11 the bathroom looking for the pajamas. I would have

12 been in there.

13 TOM HANEY: How about this pillow, when is

14 the last time in the daytime would you have some time

15 on Christmas day gone in there to put away Christmas

16 presents, to do anything?

17 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't remember.

18 TOM HANEY: How often would say the pillow

19 case would be changed?

20 PATSY RAMSEY: At least once a week.

21 TOM HANEY: Okay. How about the rest of the

22 day, the bottom tucked in sheets.

23 PATSY RAMSEY: At least once a week.

24 TOM HANEY: Was there a particular day of the

25 week that --

0427

1 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't remember.

2 TOM HANEY: Okay. I mean, some folks are

3 pretty much on a schedule.

4 PATSY RAMSEY: I'm pretty laid back.

5 TOM HANEY: How about Linda?

6 PATSY RAMSEY: I know she did it once a week.

7 I don't know what day she did it.

8 TOM HANEY: So this particular sheet could be

9 on its last day of the seven or -- the holiday it could

10 be --

11 PATSY RAMSEY: Longer.

12 TOM HANEY: Was she expected to come in that

13 day?

14 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

15 TOM HANEY: 26th.

16 PATSY RAMSEY: She was supposed to come in.

17 She was going to come on Friday. Wednesday was

18 Christmas, so she was off on Christmas. She came

19 Monday, Wednesday and Friday. She was there Monday

20 because she helped me get ready for the party.

21 TOM HANEY: When you were getting ready for

22 the party did she do the laundry?

23 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. We were getting

24 ready for the party, you know.

25 TOM HANEY: Right.

0428

1 PATSY RAMSEY: Downstairs. She didn't come

2 Wednesday because it was Christmas. She was going to

3 come Friday after we had gone, and I left her a check

4 because she (inaudible) cried she wanted money.

5 TOM HANEY: But if she comes Monday,

6 Wednesday and Friday, and obviously doesn't come

7 because of Christmas on Wednesday, we have the sheets

8 on at a minimum, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, so three

9 days.

10 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably.

11 TOM HANEY: The maximum number going back.

12 PATSY RAMSEY: Maybe the next Friday.

13 TOM HANEY: Or last Wednesday.

14 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.

15 TRIP DEMUTH: Did JonBenet ever have nose

16 bleeds at night?

17 PATSY RAMSEY: Not that I remember.

18 Sometimes she might pick her nose, maybe cause it to

19 bleed, but she wouldn't have one of those, you know,

20 dry, you know, to hold her head back kind of thing.









Check this out....

http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.a...rticle&Id=1286


Signs and Symptoms of Head Injuries That Alert The Need For Medical Care include:

• Loss of consciousness, confusion, drowsiness
• Inability to move any part of the body or weakness in an arm or leg
• Dent, bruise, cut or blood on the scalp
• Severe headache
• Stiff neck
• Vomiting
• Blood or fluid that comes from the mouth, nose or ear
• Loss of vision, blurred or double vision, pupils of unequal size
• Convulsions

Notice the very first one listed in loss of consciousness, which I believe happened to JB...and I believe thats when Patsy screamed (the scream that the neighbor heard)...and she started shaking JB frantically, trying to revive her (thats where the bruises on the sides of her head came from). Another one that I have reddened and bolded is BLOOD COMING FROM NOSE. Could this be the reason that there were blood stains on JB's pillow...(based on Tom Haney's questioning about stains on JB's Pillow and Trip Demuth's question to Patsy about JB having nosebleeds at night)? Was JB either struck in the head while in the bed, or was she placed there later....AND HENCE the blood on her pillow was from the nosebleed that she got, from the blow to the head? I believe that she was either struck while in the bed, or placed there later after the blow to the head...and THEN placed in the basement for the staged crime scene. I don't believe that the interviewers would have brought up stains on JB's pillow, or night time nosebleeds...if there hadn't been a reason. The link that I provided plainly states that a severe headwound (one that would require medical attention, which definately would have been JB"s case) will cause bleeding from the nose. I believe that this is what happened to JB that night. I am also quite positive that JB went into convulsions too...I have always thought this, before losing consciousness. These are SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS OF HEAD INJURIES THAT ALERT THE NEED FOR MEDICAL CARE....only problem with that is...the Ramsey's were afraid to get medical care, because one of them...I believe Patsy...was afraid of being arrested right there on the spot, in the ER, because SHE is the one that caused that injury. Doctors are not stupid....they would have figured it out. How in the world would she have explained that massive head injury? You know she heard the crack...it had to have been extremely loud....so she knew there was a bad fracture, and if she had of taken JB to the ER, they would have x-rayed her and found it out. What excuse would she have given them for such a horrendous wound? She was skipping and she fell? She was riding her bike, and she fell off of it? She fell down a whole flight of stairs. I mean, come on...how believable is THAT? But, thats what alot of IDI posters say, that she could have said...IF she did it. Do they not know that Doctors go to college for that, and they could tell by the injury, that a staircase didn't do it? Instead, they would have figured that it was some sort of tremendous blow to her head that was intentionally caused by one of her parents. So, what do the Ramsey's do? They stage a crime scene, and HOPE that they can fool people (which they did) and stay out of prison....OR, they can take JB to the ER, and lie to the Dr, who would have not believed their story...and for SURE been thrown in jail? Of course...IMO..they choose to stage an "intruder" crime scene...and hope and pray that it works. IT DID.....

 

[Ravyn]

Did the LE ever find the sheets that LHP put on the bed. cause in the interview PR said it was a job to change the bed once a week.Now I don't understand why LHP then would stated the only chore PR would do was to change wet sheets from JBR's bed.

 

[claudicici]

...camper,your"no" post is really making me think.....doesn't it seem that some of these "no"'s that something was terribly wrong before jonbenet got was murdered?
...could they have found out something that completely destroyed their christmas...hence no pictures,no preparations for the trip....how were they acting at the white's party?...wasn't there a strange 911 call....and the "inscest" dictionary page?...or was that at the other party?....I have to go find those old interviews!

 

[Ames]

Did the LE ever find the sheets that LHP put on the bed. cause in the interview PR said it was a job to change the bed once a week.Now I don't understand why LHP then would stated the only chore PR would do was to change wet sheets from JBR's bed.

I don't know if they took any sheets, besides the ones on JB's bed, into evidence. Maybe LHP changed only Patsy, John, and Burke's sheets....and changed JB's sheets when she DIDN'T wet the bed. And Patsy changed them when JB DID wet the bed. I am just guessing here...

 

[Ravyn]

ty Ames, I just have to do more research now,how it sounded in one post that JB wet or soiled her bed alot more than once or twice a week.

 

[Ravyn]

Now I'm really changing the subject here, looking back at my past post and something hit me,now on time of death Mayer didn't say he had to break rigor mortis so in everything I have read on this subject it takes 36 hours to reach this point for the body to be relax again.Now going back from 8:17am when he saw JB that morning to come up to 36 it puts it at 9:00pm on the 25th.Now I just added back to 36 hours,its was posted two hours for pineapple to digest

 

[Tadpole12]

LHP on Peter Boyles show:

http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/02151999peterboylesshow-pb.htm

PB - This is Linda Hoffman Pugh. You can now talk about the case?

LHP - I can't talk about the GJ, but I can talk about this point.

PB - Have you read the Newsweek piece?

LHP - No.

PB - At the home of John and Barbara Fernie, Patsy stood up and offered condolences. (Talking about Pam abd Patsy and dehydration and that PR knew who killed JBR - missed most of it) Let me read what NW has to say about you. They had brought several thick books about crime-scene photos, they showed her a pic of JBR's thermal blanket, it had stains on it, they showed her a pic of JBR's bed, looking at the comforter, the bed looked barely disturbed

LHP - That was my feeling, that the blanket was in the dryer. I think the blanket wasn't on her bed that night. I don't think a stranger would know where the blanket was. the R's didn't even have a hamper, they just left clothes lying around.

PB - Only you and PR knew it was in there. How do you feel about how the R's are trying to put the blame on you?

LHP - It hurts a lot.

PB - YOu were extremely loyal to her.

LHP - I don't believe the intruder theory at all. That door they're talking about was like that for months.

PB - Haddon was either uninformed or was lying to protect his client.

LHP - That door was like that for months before JBR was murdered.

PB - What has changed in your mind in the last 28 months.

LHP - The R's have lied about numerous things. They've lied about the door, they lied about the knife, they lied about the Swiss army knife. I put in the cupboard myself.

PB - What do you know about bed-wetting? LHP is with us, and she is significant. Is the noose tightening?

(PB's intro was very intense. He talked about the Newsweek, Ramsey Mountain News connection to Schiller, but felt that based upon the excerpts, the Schiller book is objective. He talked about Miss Kit, and how she is quoted talking about the dance routines and her part in teaching them, he said everybody needs to pick up this issue, he had Silverman on discussing the case, he speculated that maybe the lawyers are in Atlanta preparing the R's for GJ testifying or possibly preparing them for indictment (the latter Silverman thinks is unlikely) etc. LOTS was talked about, but combining my lack of sleep and the frustration of trying to access the forum, I didn't hear it all)


2. "cont"
Posted by Byron on 07:40:42 2/15/99
Include Original Message on Reply

PB - How did they treat bedwetting?

LHP - It didn't come up much, but every time I came in the sheets were already off the bed.

PB - How was PR dealing with it, was she getting more frustrated?

LHP - There's no way JR could be a father and not know about it.

PB - You know at least of three lies. Why would the R's come out with the pry marks as evidence of an intruder. They knew about the Swiss army knife. People need to hear this, particularly the people who believe, for whatever the hell reason, well I don't know why they believe it...

LHP - I asked PR for a loan. I think she must have, because the police asked me about it.

PBn - She says you owe her money.

LHP - She owes ME money.

PB - I asked her about the front door. PR told me all the doors were locked. They also attempted to make your husband a suspect as well.

LHP - He had only been in the house four times. One time to fix closet doors, and one time to put up Christmas lights. Everybody who knows us knows we didn't kill JBR. I have never hurt a child and never would. I loved the whole family.

PB - What is Burke like?

LHP - He's a real quiet little boy.

PB - What have you come away with in this?

LHP - We've been hurt. I loved Patsy so much, I would have done anything for her.

PB - You know she knows you didn't do this. She's trying to set somebody up. This doesn't have anything to do with you, and she must be going through her own personal hell.

LHP - I really cared about her. (crying) I don't believe the blanket was on the bed. There were only two people who knew...

PB - What about the little room?

LHP - I never even went inside of the room. I opened the door once.

PB - Did Schiller come and talk to you?

LHP - Yes, he did.

PB - This is all coming to a head. I spoke with Chuck Green, and thinks so as well.

 

[Camper]

...camper,your"no" post is really making me think.....doesn't it seem that some of these "no"'s that something was terribly wrong before jonbenet got was murdered?
...could they have found out something that completely destroyed their christmas...hence no pictures,no preparations for the trip....how were they acting at the white's party?...wasn't there a strange 911 call....and the "inscest" dictionary page?...or was that at the other party?....I have to go find those old interviews!

--->>>Yep when you add up the no's and lack of preparation for the BIG trip.

Sounds like Christmas Day evening/late evening NIGHT and WEE hours were a harried ordeal of some sort.

The odd 911 call was at the party of the 23rd. When Ms. Fernie hollered through the door speaker to the police that responded to the 'hang up' 911 call. No one in the home as I read the media info even opened the door. Rude and odd.

The dictionary info page content was released AFTER the murder, BUT that doesn't mean that the book was not opened the evening of the party on the 23rd -> who would even be in the R bedroom that evening checking for anything for that matter. Someone might have been busy explaining incest while the party went on downstairs, hence, there was no family member present to answer the door when the police arrived in response to the 911 call.

The evening of the 23rd was when JBR was found weeping about not being 'pretty' by Mrs. Santa Claus, I have forgotten the old man's name that was 'Santa' that night.

 

[Camper]

Hi Ames.

oh, that's interesting about the stain on the pillow.
It's taken me a lot of rereading just to try and rememebr all those 'details'.

Hi Ravyn.

also, iirc, JBR was said to have been sick and resting in bed? at the least spent an afternoon in bed?

and kids always do have those favorite pyjamas which they ask for when they're sick or sad.

--->>>John Ramsey was said to have been at Jeffco airport much of Christmas day/afternoon ->no exact time frame on that. Mr. Barnhill saw someone he thought was JAR walk up to the house Christmas day WE or I donut remember reading that Barnhill saw the 'person' walk on in through the front door. IF IF IF PR was in the basement doing something, and JBR was in bed as stated in blue above, and and the person who approached the front door actually went in to the house that day, the person had access to the stairs from the foyer that went to the upstairs, and could quietly arrived and PR would not have known.

When JR speaks of 'someone' possibly hiding in the house, until they went to sleep, well duh. Hmmm, I wish the PD had gotten MORE Information from Barnhill. He has passed away now.

IF IF Barnhill saw the person walk up to the house in early AM BEFORE the gifts had been opened Christmas day, well that would explain NO PICTURES. IF the R's left the '?guest?' at home while they went to the White party, just thinking hmmm. My thoughts are probably a stretch on this timeline. :waitasec:

.

 

[DeeDee249]

Mayer never stated he had to break rigor on JBR. She was in more advanced rigor (+4-+5) on her legs and milder (+1-+2) on her arms (shoulders, elbows, wrists). Because the smaller joints form first, her arms would have been in full rigor around the time she was found, which Det. Arndt corroborates by describing her arms over her head with no support. Therefore, by the time of the autopsy about 18 hours later ("found" at 1 pm Dec 26 to autopsy 8 am Dec. 27) the rigor in her arms was receding, not forming or holding. Secondary flaccidity was beginning there.
I was the one who said that if the timeline we feel is accurate (death 12 midnight- 1am, rigor taking 12 hours to form, another 12 hours holding, and 12 hours to recede- a complete rigor cycle taking 36 hours from primary flaccidity to secondary flaccidity) her arms and fingers as they appear on the autopsy table photos seem to show rigor receding, which Mayer describes in degrees. Mayer would only have needed to break rigor if it was advanced. And that would put the time of death at an impossible time. Hours AFTER her body was found.

 

[JMO8778]

It was Susan Stine who spoke to LE via the intercom on the 23rd.weird indeed.Also odd the R's didn't call the Stine's over,when according to them, they were the last outside the family to see her alive.
SS was wayyyy too involved to not have known more..she was scanning the net daily at the time,trying to see what was out there. (IMO,to see what,if anything,was being said about her and her family),and trying to get ppl to take the R's side,turning on those who refused to do it.And the fake emails she sent can be found on acandyrose.com.

 

[Tadpole12]

TY, but there was a stain on JBR bed.So PR somewhere along the line didn't change the sheets.And I know with twins beds you have more than 1 to 2 pairs of them.And where did the blanket come in it, I never said anything about the blanket.

G'day.

Hey Ravyn, found a few good links fer ya....


PR PBD interview, 1997, (vague details of 25th and refs to laundry )
http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1997BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm

at candy rose, index of the vortex (this one's a treasurecove of info)
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-Flight755-15thStreet.htm


Rockymountainnews timelines, re chronology of the 24/25th
http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0126jon.htm
http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0126timea.htm