Chuck and Judith Cox file for custody

[gwenabob]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...more-information-about-their-father.html?pg=2

Must read article, especially the second page. It says the boys behavior worsens after each visit with their father. I wonder if he tells them they don't have to do what Grandma and Grandpa says or some such nonsense like he used to feed them about their mother.

Also says that Josh is moving out of the house and that his mother has moved up from Utah and is living in her ex-husband's (Steven's) house!!!! Wow!!!

 

[Frigga]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...more-information-about-their-father.html?pg=2

Must read article, especially the second page. It says the boys behavior worsens after each visit with their father. I wonder if he tells them they don't have to do what Grandma and Grandpa says or some such nonsense like he used to feed them about their mother.

Also says that Josh is moving out of the house and that his mother has moved up from Utah and is living in her ex-husband's (Steven's) house!!!! Wow!!!

There are no words Gwenabob- I will never understand Josh's mother- ever.

 

[OneLove]

There are no words Gwenabob- I will never understand Josh's mother- ever.

But I certainly wouldn't judge her without knowing why she's doing what she's doing. Again, there is SO much we do not know.

 

[MsFacetious]

He also said they were trying to abide by Josh Powell's request not to participate in certain activities with the boys...
OR activities that he (Josh) normally would have conducted with his sons ...
OR go places he would traditionally go with his boys such as Lowe's or Home Depot. :floorlaugh:

He said he would honor his son-in-law's request not to participate in workshop classes at those home improvement stores with the boys.

Cox noted the restrictions placed on his family by Josh Powell "can be somewhat problematic," and used an example of the boys wanting to go swimming.

He said he would be taking the boys to the YMCA to swim, whether or not that was something Josh Powell already did with them.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=181...ogical-info-on-josh-powell-says-boys-are-fine

Seriously??? Dude, if I restricted someone from taking my children everywhere I have taken them, they could never leave the house!

I guess we can presume that Josh didn't take the kids to the park, the zoo, the aquarium, the museum... or those things would be included?? :waitasec:

I can understand like ONE special thing only YOU do with your children... and asking that be avoided.
But anything YOU have done with them, they can't do with anyone else??

CONTROL issues much Josh? :waitasec:

 

[gwenabob]

A man who really loved his kids would want them to be having a full and complete life doing activities they enjoy even if he could not be there sharing it with them. Josh doesn't care about those boys. He just cares that he lost control of them and is trying to punish everyone involved, even if it hurts the boys in the process. This is ludicrous, and I hope it just goes to make Josh look bad at the next custody hearing. I suspect Josh is nothing more than his father's mini-me.

 

[cocomod]

Praying for these boys. How confusing for them that Josh is playing tug-a-war with them. They are sweet little humans with feelings that do not deserve to be confused any more than this horrible situation already causes.

 

[MsFacetious]

I wonder where these visits are being held? How closely monitored is he? Is he videotaped or audio taped?
How cool would it be if he was and those tapes were presented at the custody hearing... (I can dream.)

So the not going swimming, or to Home Depot... were just "requests" from Josh that Susan's parents were trying to honor...
Correct?

This wasn't actually IN the custody order?

What IS in it... that they can't go to church?
Can't step onto church property?
(I hope less things happen at the church buildings in Washington, than in Utah... because I haven't been TO church in YEARS... but I have been to church property a few times this month. Weddings, funerals, baby showers, even blood drives!)

I got the impression during the actual hearing, that the judge just made the visits during church when Josh brought up church... but didn't ban the Cox's from taking them to church.
I am guessing that the same thing applies to swimming and home improvement stores? Absurd.... :innocent:

 

[Donjeta]

JMO. It sounds like a strategy designed to make the boys think that the grandparents are mean and stupid because they won't agree to do any of the nice things the boys have traditionally enjoyed doing with their dad.

 

[hollyblue]

Are both boys having nightmares? I'm a little concerned the counseling/therapy could be the reason? Sometimes it's too much for them and I hope the counselors are collaborating with each other and taking the nightmares into consideration. There's a struggle playing out somewhere in their little minds. Poor kids.

 

[cocomod]

I do not think we know if one of the boys already was scared of the dark prior to going to live with the Cox family. I do not think we can make assumptions that this is a condition caused by the change or by the therapy.

I am concerned that they are noticably "defiant" upon returning. That would be quite obvious that there may be some manipulation going on from Josh. I was sad to note that all of the schedule visits have been made. I had hoped that Josh would find it inconvenient and not make these visits. (one can hope!) I also hope like Facetious that some of these meetings are recorded or watched by CPS! Wouldn't that be the ultimate if they can show that Josh is doing something that is detrimental to their well-being by saying things that are not mentally healthy for the boys. I would LOVE for him to lose custody because of his arrogance; however, I still cry for these boys! They are so vulnerable!!

I have a question - does anyone know what the agreed dependency order is?

 

[RubyBlu]

I believe that in spirit, Susan has always been watching over and reaching out to her boys in her own way.

She has guided them from the clutches of the Powells into the loving arms of her family the Coxes.

I trust Susan's spirit.

 

[ohiogirl]

There are no words Gwenabob- I will never understand Josh's mother- ever.

It may be that Josh's sister needs supervision and can't live alone.
Just a thought. She is her daughter, after all.

 

[RubyBlu]

A man who really loved his kids would want them to be having a full and complete life doing activities they enjoy even if he could not be there sharing it with them. Josh doesn't care about those boys. He just cares that he lost control of them and is trying to punish everyone involved, even if it hurts the boys in the process. This is ludicrous, and I hope it just goes to make Josh look bad at the next custody hearing. I suspect Josh is nothing more than his father's mini-me.

I totally agree that Josh's relationship with the boys is and always has been about control.

I recall reading that Josh would undermine & challenge Susan by getting the boys "out of bed" after she settled them for the night telling then them that she was MEAN. :furious:

That is not only controlling but vindictive and hateful. That is NOT the behavior of a loving father and husband.

 

[mysteriew]

He also said they were trying to abide by Josh Powell's request not to participate in certain activities with the boys...
OR activities that he (Josh) normally would have conducted with his sons ...
OR go places he would traditionally go with his boys such as Lowe's or Home Depot. :floorlaugh:

He said he would honor his son-in-law's request not to participate in workshop classes at those home improvement stores with the boys.

Cox noted the restrictions placed on his family by Josh Powell "can be somewhat problematic," and used an example of the boys wanting to go swimming.

He said he would be taking the boys to the YMCA to swim, whether or not that was something Josh Powell already did with them.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=181...ogical-info-on-josh-powell-says-boys-are-fine

Seriously??? Dude, if I restricted someone from taking my children everywhere I have taken them, they could never leave the house!

I guess we can presume that Josh didn't take the kids to the park, the zoo, the aquarium, the museum... or those things would be included?? :waitasec:

I can understand like ONE special thing only YOU do with your children... and asking that be avoided.
But anything YOU have done with them, they can't do with anyone else??

CONTROL issues much Josh? :waitasec:

Thinking about it from the boys point of view, if they normally were used to swiming, going to home depot classes, etc. and suddenly were living with the grandparents and no longer were allowed to do any of the things they were used to and enjoyed, wouldn't that make them wonder about the grandparents? If they said they loved you, would they restrict you from doing the things they were used to and enjoyed? Joshie had an ulterior motive for this IMO. Daddy could remain the fun person in their eyes, grandparents become the ones restricting them.

I don't blame the mother for moving to the home. She was deprived of her children while they were growing up. Now she has the opportunity to reconnect with them and I don't blame her for taking advantage of it. If she had been in their lives before, if JP had seen her as a valuable part of his life and been able to have a relationship to his mother, perhaps Susan would be alive now.

I do think it is odd that as she is moving in, rumor has it that JP is moving out. Is that coincidental or planned?

 

[gwenabob]

Thinking about it from the boys point of view, if they normally were used to swiming, going to home depot classes, etc. and suddenly were living with the grandparents and no longer were allowed to do any of the things they were used to and enjoyed, wouldn't that make them wonder about the grandparents? If they said they loved you, would they restrict you from doing the things they were used to and enjoyed? Joshie had an ulterior motive for this IMO. Daddy could remain the fun person in their eyes, grandparents become the ones restricting them.

I don't blame the mother for moving to the home. She was deprived of her children while they were growing up. Now she has the opportunity to reconnect with them and I don't blame her for taking advantage of it. If she had been in their lives before, if JP had seen her as a valuable part of his life and been able to have a relationship to his mother, perhaps Susan would be alive now.

I do think it is odd that as she is moving in, rumor has it that JP is moving out. Is that coincidental or planned?

I guess what is odd is that she is moving into her mean, rotten, controlling ex-husband's house. And it is not a house she lived in with him prior to the divorce. The only think I can think of is that since Josh is moving out, mom is moving in to take care of the mentally ill son. I suspect 1 of 2 things:

Josh thinks he is going to get the boys back and wants his own place away from the craziness of dad and mentally ill brother, AND

He expects daddy to win at trial and come home this spring. Mom is probably being told this is just temporary until Steve comes home. (He's innocent, you know! A jury will see right through the DA's case! :innocent

 

[diphi]

Maybe Josh is being kicked-out of the house by his siblings? Maybe they've seen the light and have had enough...

IMO

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I'm just getting caught up on the Powell case and I thank you all for making it easy for me.

I am concerned about the boys' mental health. As far as memory goes, I can attest to the fact that children can have long memories. I know that I can remember specific events in detail from age 4 on. I don't remember everything, but I do remember some traumatic moments. One was when my parents were fighting and my father threw an egg against the kitchen cabinets. I was about 4 at the time.

I also had two recurrent dreams throughout my childhood and well into adulthood. The earliest dream was of sitting in a bathtub with about 2 inches of water in it. I must have been extremely young and not yet walking based on what my body looked like as I looked at my legs. I was perhaps 8-10 months old.

The traumatic part was that all of a sudden, there was a loud noise and a lid came down and left me in the dark.

I finally asked my mother about the dream. She told me that when I was a baby, we lived in a Brooklyn, NY apartment with my aunt and cousin while the men were serving in the Armed Forces. The bathroom didn't have a tub. The tub was in the kitchen and was made of metal. There was a lid that latched to the wall and came down to make a counter. The latch pulled out of the wall and fell while I was in the tub. Fortunately, the tub was so deep that my head did not project over the top of the tub and I wasn't hurt. It was never a nightmare, simply a dream! My mother told me she was surprised I didn't cry, just looked very confused when she opened the top and took me out.

You can't make that stuff up. I'm sure that, if the boys witnesed anything, it may be somewhere in their dreams. Let's hope their counselor gets around to their dreams. They may yield some clues as to what happened to Susan.

 

[OneLove]

Hopefully, the kids (grown) will confide in the mom. She may learn more than anyone else ever could.

Is it possible that Josh has no hope of getting custody of his boys back unless he has housing of his own?

Since the sister that suspected Josh of 'misdeeds' was close to their mom, maybe there is antagonism or emotional undertones that Josh can't deal with. And maybe it is just sheer guilt, plain and simple, and now that daddy dearest is gone, he feels that guilt more heavily. Or maybe mom is telling him his extended narcissistic adolescence is over and he needs to get a job and be self supporting.

Is it possible that the father wanted and needed Josh in the house partly to help with adult mental illness in his other children? Maybe now that mom is there to step in, this relieves Josh of feeling responsible?

It's just hard to view Josh as a responsible, care taking sort, but maybe his father always leaned on him for that in the home. Who cooked and cleaned and saw that things got done?

 

[grayjay]

A lot of interesting possibilities. I would add one.

Josh may have been staying in the house because of SP's control and emotional blackmail.

JMO

 

[OneLove]

Maybe Josh is being kicked-out of the house by his siblings? Maybe they've seen the light and have had enough...

IMO

Hahah. Rich.

What are the odds that the mortgage isn't being paid with Steven in the clinker and they are all living there rent free until the house is surrendered in a foreclosure? I have NO idea what the finances are concerning the house. Maybe the kids are getting some kind of govt checks and contributing to the mortgage and they've told Josh to ante up, especially since he can't claim to have kids to take care of anymore.

If Josh IS moving out (I'm not in the know on any of this), where is he moving to and how will he be supporting himself?