Cindy Implicated in Mail Fraud

[believe09]

Apparently she is denying it, reading her response in the People link...

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Yes, someone did see a card being passed off at that hearing, and we assumed it was for Mother's Day. Can't remember exactly how it went, but it came from Cindy.

Now if it's true it went to the Baez firm from the courthouse and was mailed from there, with that Legal Documents note on it, then the Baez Firm did something illegal.

I do believe the envelope, though, doesn't look very professional. Maybe they hand-stamped their return address on it using a rubber stamp?

No matter how it was sent to the jail, it was done illegally, by Cindy, by Baez, by his staff, or by all of them. It was illegal and they all know it. Possibly not a federal offense if done this way, but certainly it broke jailhouse and courthouse rules.

I do wonder why a professional office like The Baez Law Firm doesn't have a specially made stamp that says "Legal Documents" so those his pretty little model secretaries don't have to hand-scrawl it on the envelopes?

JB says it didn't come from his office. I guess we have to believe him, being an honest officer of the court and all.

I think the post-it note "Legal Mail" was stuck on by the first person to get the envelope in the jail, and then when it was handed off to someone else, that person got suspicious. From the looks of it, I'm sure that's not a stretch. However, somebody put the law firm's return address on it, making it appear it was originating from there. Illegal.

2010.05.10 - Paralegal passes note to female corrections officer at Casey's hearing, not the first time someone has done this IMO. [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5494373#post5494373"]2010.05.10 - Paralegal passes note to female corrections officer at Casey's hearing - Page 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]



"Snip" Video http://www.wftv.com/video/23506764/index.html
I posted this the day of the hearing...looking for the thread, will add it when I come across it.

I never saw the corrections officer give Baez the note. I only saw her put it in her shirt uniform pocket. At the time I questioned this. Were the Anthony's or someone else passing notes to Casey and if so, is this not illegal?

Take note:

Paralegal passes note to female corrections officer in the first video of the hearing.

At about 1:51 in the first audio the paralegal gets up and goes somewhere it doesn't show where she went though.

She returned before the 10 min mark.

At about the 12:18 mark of the video she hands the note over!!!

Could this be the Mother's Day card in question?

Exclusive: George and Cindy Anthony Speak on 2nd Anniversary of Caylee's Disappearance
In a rare spontaneous meeting during a court recess in March, Cindy said she was able to give Casey a Mother's Day card. http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/TheLaw/exc...ry?id=10911174



"Snip" In the Indigency Hearing these things happened:

- Atty Lyon hands a folded-over note or envelope to Casey, which the male guard previously gave to Lyon.

- This Hearing is the day before Casey's birthday on March 19th.

- Cindy said on Good Morning America on June 15, 2010 that she gave Casey a Mother's Day card during a recess in a Hearing in MARCH. This Indigency Hearing is the latest Hearing in which there was a "RECESS" in which the inmate was taken out of the courtroom during the recess.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Gosh Seagull, you are trying my memory here, lol. If Cindy had no inkling Casey was a neglectful mom, why then was she threatening to take custody of Caylee? IIRC, Cindy had a conversation regarding this with one of her co-workers (possibly her supervisor, Debbie Polisano.) And in one of the 911 calls, Cindy was heard saying she would then go the custody route, since Casey wasn't producing Caylee. I don't recall any of the friends being 'baffled' by Casey hurting Caylee. In fact, several felt that Casey was responsible. Most damning perhaps is Cindy's own mom, Shirley Plesea, who told LE that if Cindy felt Casey was lying, then Caylee must be dead. "Casey hated her mother more than she loved her daughter." Doesn't get more direct than that, IMO. Finally, if Casey had a "positive attachment" with Caylee, as you say in your post, why did Cindy state that Casey took Caylee on vacation to "bond?" Maybe someone can help out here, cause my old memory isn't what it used to be, lol!

Oakley, your memory is on the money. Good job! :clap:

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Originally Posted by RR0004
I find it interesting that Cindy was the one that mentioned "mail fraud" in her letter. Someone (LE) must have said something before the docs were released. All parties involved, I assume, were made aware of the problem. So why did Jose deny it came from his office?

Cause he or one of his staff may have put it in another envelope after he "approved" it and addressed it to ICA at the jail.

And that would be illegal?

Yes, it's illegal because it breaks jailhouse rules. They want the mail to have the sender's name and proper address on the envelope. Also, Baez isn't supposed to be passing anything between the prisoner and anyone else. If he wants to proofread any mail they send to each other, that's fine, but each of them is supposed to mail it themselves (properly identified) after he checks it. He's not supposed to be passing correspondence AT ALL.

 

[faefrost]

I didn't know it was illegal for a defense attorney to bring notes from the parents or vice versa, etc (as long as he's read the contents obviously and they don't contain anything nefarious, he'd bear the responsibility for that if he's carrying the message.) I wouldn't think he'd be able to bring any items in and leave them with an inmate, but as far as being a conduit for messages from the family, is it really illegal or unusual? I just never thought about this before. I would think most likely if he was doing this it was his own suggestion, he seemed to be discouraging Casey from taking normal visits at the jail due to the taping. At least that was my impression, I don't know if it's true.

It's a huge issue because among other things it violates jail/prison security in such a way that can easily put peoples lives at risk. (I think others here have pretty well described that scenario)

But the other big thing is it is a jeopardy to one of the core privileges extended to any and all practicing attorneys. Remember attorney client privilege is just that, a privilege granted for a specific purpose. the privacy to consult openly and in a forthright manner with ones attorney. Using this almost sacred privilege to shield third party communications, even trivial ones is a gross abuse of the consideration that the courts grant to attorneys. Abusing and manipulating it in this manner is a threat not just to the lawyers self and client, but a threat to all practicing attorneys, and is something that one would hope the bar, if not the state attorney, would look very very unfavorably on.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Yes, it's illegal because it breaks jailhouse rules. They want the mail to have the sender's name and proper address on the envelope. Also, Baez isn't supposed to be passing anything between the prisoner and anyone else. If he wants to proofread any mail they send to each other, that's fine, but each of them is supposed to mail it themselves (properly identified) after he checks it. He's not supposed to be passing correspondence AT ALL.

:waitasec: Hmm...well then I wonder what ever happen to these allegations? Do we know if Baez was reported for this? TIA

UPDATED: 1:49 am EDT April 8, 2010
New allegations are surfacing that Baez also broke jail rules by secretly passing messages to his client.

In her letters, Casey Anthony wrote, "My attorney is keeping tabs on my family for me, and exchanging letters between us." In another letter, Anthony claims her attorney is trying to "smuggle" in some word search puzzles. Baez has declined comment since the letters were released.

More at link!

Video: Inmate Details Relationship With Anthony
http://www.clickorlando.com/video/23084066/index.html

Article:http://www.clickorlando.com/news/23085002/detail.html

 

[Zoe Bogart]

The State of Florida has their hands full and I doubt they'll be taking time to look at lesser crimes of this family before the murder trial. Surely, the Florida Bar Assn. should be looking into Baez's inappropriate actions since he's already been called to their attention prior to this. The jailhouse should also be monitoring his actions, however, in an article about this "mail fraud", they said they wouldn't be investigating the incident. (link elsewhere in this thread)

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Can anyone work out why they are even bothering? This all has to come from Cindy doesn't it, George isn't interested in corresponding, Casey doesn't bother (not even sure if she is reading these letters) and Baez would have no interest in Cindy writing Casey ... so the only person who is cooking up all these schemes is Cindy. For all we know he had no idea she put his senders address on the envelope, and she just put that on herself to try and reach her daughter. She's wasting her time with Casey, she needs to let her go for her own sanity / dignity etc.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

2010.05.10 - Paralegal passes note to female corrections officer at Casey's hearing, not the first time someone has done this IMO. 2010.05.10 - Paralegal passes note to female corrections officer at Casey's hearing - Page 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community



"Snip" Video http://www.wftv.com/video/23506764/index.html
I posted this the day of the hearing...looking for the thread, will add it when I come across it.

I never saw the corrections officer give Baez the note. I only saw her put it in her shirt uniform pocket. At the time I questioned this. Were the Anthony's or someone else passing notes to Casey and if so, is this not illegal?

Take note:

Paralegal passes note to female corrections officer in the first video of the hearing.

At about 1:51 in the first audio the paralegal gets up and goes somewhere it doesn't show where she went though.

She returned before the 10 min mark.

At about the 12:18 mark of the video she hands the note over!!!

Could this be the Mother's Day card in question?

Why would Cindy pass her a Mother's Day card in March when Mother's Day is not until May? And if she did personally pass it as these excerpts indicate ~ then why would she send/pass another, second one?

Nothing in this whole case makes any sense at all, neither the small details or the huge important ones!!! :banghead:

 

[LambChop]

Why would Cindy pass her a Mother's Day card in March when Mother's Day is not until May? And if she did personally pass it as these excerpts indicate ~ then why would she send/pass another, second one?

Nothing in this whole case makes any sense at all, neither the small details or the huge important ones!!! :banghead:

KC's birthday is in March. My guess it was a birthday card.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

The State of Florida has their hands full and I doubt they'll be taking time to look at lesser crimes of this family before the murder trial. Surely, the Florida Bar Assn. should be looking into Baez's inappropriate actions since he's already been called to their attention prior to this. The jailhouse should also be monitoring his actions, however, in an article about this "mail fraud", they said they wouldn't be investigating the incident. (link elsewhere in this thread)

Yep, that is what was said. They won't be investigating this matter.
I can understand why, prob do to the circus, but hope that after the circus leaves town LE will come back and do a little housekeeping. I just want Justice for Caylee...that is all that matters right now.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/24541491/detail.html
Orange County corrections officials have not publicly accused anyone of mail fraud, and no investigation will be conducted, according to a jail spokesman.

 

[justthinkin]

When there's shaky evidence at best to convict someone of the crime, mail fraud (associated with said crime-think insurance fraud) is one of the quickest ways to get a conviction of some sort. It's (the threat) also a good way to get someone to turn on someone else.

\

Here's your chance, George. Go for it!:croc:

 

[Leila]

Mail fraud is CA's words. CA has not committed a crime in the eyes of the law, it is a policy/law of the correctional institute. As I see it, right now no one from LE would ever want to rock the boat as far as the trial goes. However, if I were CA I would be worried about after the trial and what will happen afterwards. She keeps pushing the envelop, they will catch up to her if they can still press charges at that time I would not be surprised if some charges are filed against her. BC can only protect her for so long. My guess is CA just does not give a "beaver house" about what she does and who she does it to. It'll all catch up and I think it's name is....DC..... jmo

I agree. I think it's all accumulating in one big, thick, file, just waiting for the right time.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Seems this is a dead issue if LE is not going to persue it.
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/24541491/detail.html
Orange County corrections officials have not publicly accused anyone of mail fraud, and no investigation will be conducted, according to a jail spokesman.

That must be comforting for all the other inmates to know that if they get caught doing the same thing no one will bother to investigate or prosecute.:waitasec:

 

[sleutherontheside]

As much as I have disdain for those who skirt policy, bend the rules, expect exceptions, and who snub the system........

I just can't "care" about a stupid card.

Now does that mean I won't engage in conversation about it??? No.......in fact I already have. But, when I look at the entire case as a whole.........assign mental categories based upon their legal value......and consider the importance of events........
Cindy sending a stupid card is a mere footnote.

What I would be highly concerned about....would be whether it was the "first" time it happened or whether there were any other system circumventions or attempts to smuggle in contraband associated with it.

Only then would it really impact the case......but not KC's.

 

[Numbers]

As much as I have disdain for those who skirt policy, bend the rules, expect exceptions, and who snub the system........

I just can't "care" about a stupid card.

Now does that mean I won't engage in conversation about it??? No.......in fact I already have. But, when I look at the entire case as a whole.........assign mental categories based upon their legal value......and consider the importance of events........
Cindy sending a stupid card is a mere footnote.

What I would be highly concerned about....would be whether it was the "first" time it happened or whether there were any other system circumventions or attempts to smuggle in contraband associated with it.

Only then would it really impact the case......but not KC's.

There's nothing going on in center ring right now, so we concentrate on the freak show on the midway. It's world unto itself.

 

[SleuthTheTruth]

I find it interesting that Cindy was the one that mentioned "mail fraud" in her letter. Someone (LE) must have said something before the docs were released. All parties involved, I assume, were made aware of the problem. So why did Jose deny it came from his office?[/QUOTE]

This De-fense will always De-ny until the evidence is De-livered to them, than they have nothing to say.

 

[SleuthTheTruth]

Seems this is a dead issue if LE is not going to persue it.
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/24541491/detail.html
Orange County corrections officials have not publicly accused anyone of mail fraud, and no investigation will be conducted, according to a jail spokesman.

You can bet OCC is watching and this might be a way of letting JB know...We will let this slide this time BUT....

 

[zoey]

I find it interesting that Cindy was the one that mentioned "mail fraud" in her letter. Someone (LE) must have said something before the docs were released. All parties involved, I assume, were made aware of the problem. So why did Jose deny it came from his office?[/QUOTE]

This De-fense will always De-ny until the evidence is De-livered to them, than they have nothing to say.

What is sad (humiliating for those with a conscience)---One really can't believe jb at all....he can deny but what hasn't he denied than proven false??? His word/quotes are pretty worthless at this point--along with any and all of the a's....:banghead:

 

[Chiquita71]

That must be comforting for all the other inmates to know that if they get caught doing the same thing no one will bother to investigate or prosecute.:waitasec:

Respectfully Quoted ZsaZsa :cool2:

Thank you! I don't even agree with or like "the system" but at least they could uphold their own laws. While one person sits in jail for a crime of theft, others go free of murder. It's not good enough to hear "its the best system we got"- for me personally that is not good enough.

I think law and politics in this world are rotten from the core. Any true justice that prevails is because there are good people within that rotten system.

“I do think that women could make politics irrelevant by a kind of spontaneous cooperative action, the likes of which we have never seen–just so far from people’s ideas of state structure and viable social structure that it seems to them like total anarchy. And what it is is very subtle forms of interrelation which do not follow some hierarchical pattern that is fundamentally patriarchal. The opposite of patriarchy is not matriarchy, but fraternity. And I think it’s women who are going to have to break the spiral of power and find the trick of cooperation.” ~Germaine Greer


IMO, the kind of system Ms. Greer speaks would create something beyond justice, understanding. Understanding of how these things happen in our world and what we can do to see it end. True justice for all the victims of aggression and abuse and all the forms it takes in our world would be for it to end.

:twocents: