Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #2

[Sutton]

Regarding the location the 2am caller gave to Sarah's father; has anyone ever figured out where this area might be?. Was this area ever searched by police?. I see that Nilgen Nature Reserve covers an area of around 5,600 hectares.

"Nilgen Nature Reserve covers an area of around 5,600 hectares and is located in the west of Australia."
http://www.bonzle.com/c/a?a=p&p=59411&cmd=sp

Google: From Claremont to Nilgen Nature Reserve, Lancelin WA 6044
via State Route 60 - 140 km - 1 h 45 min

No, not that I've read. But this is a very good suggestion. It is right along the western coast, just like Wellard (JR) and Eglinton (CG). It is an hour drive north of Eglinton. Some of the pictures could be described as "dense land."

 

[billywhizz]

Regarding the location the 2am caller gave to Sarah's father; has anyone ever figured out where this area might be?. Was this area ever searched by police?. I see that Nilgen Nature Reserve covers an area of around 5,600 hectares.

"Nilgen Nature Reserve covers an area of around 5,600 hectares and is located in the west of Australia."
http://www.bonzle.com/c/a?a=p&p=59411&cmd=sp

Google: From Claremont to Nilgen Nature Reserve, Lancelin WA 6044
via State Route 60 - 140 km - 1 h 45 min

Nice find. I tried to work this out in another thread and was told by another user that the area he was referring to was 'Karnup'.

I think the place you have found fits the description much better.

 

[Bartholemeus]

That's a fair hike.

SS abducted 2am. First light just after 5am from memory. That's a good 90 minute drive.

He could have dumped the next night. Or he could have rushed everything as this could have been his first kill. Or by the time he got there it was early but light and made a mental note not to make the same mistake and dump closer to the city.

 

[Sutton]

1. Don't know. DM's book says "violent acts". I've been told by someone it was one violent act and it was bad, but not really bad. He was not charged by police.
2. The book says. Meaning, a cop gave Debbie Marshall the information. Can't see any reason it wouldn't be true.
3. Don't know. He was emasculated by his Mum. Might not have had any in fear of Mummy finding it. No internet in those days either so it's not like the newsagent at Eric St shops were selling Young Blonde Corpse Magazine. You'd hope the police have monitored all the main POI's internet usage since to see what gets them off.
4. I'm unaware of any. There was this one in 1983:

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/sha...d-be-freed-claim/story-e6frg12c-1225757077520

I think the guy who people are saying is innocent is in fact guilty. LW's parents ran a service station in Mosman Park on the highway. Not sure which one it is, but there are two of them and one of them is about 50m away from where Sharon Mason was buried.

* never had concussion.

2. I think it's likely true as well. I was somewhat teasing, just wondering if LW ever mentioned anything like this on your rides. But I was also serious, thanks for the answer. I am going to order the book soon.

3. I would think anyone would be afraid of their mom finding their hardcore bondage or punishment *advertiser censored*, but maybe the family dynamic is even stranger than we think. I also wonder if LW had any detective magazines (True Detective, Crime Detective) that were still popular (amongst some types) in the 80s and 90s (not really pornographic).

4. This is exactly what I mean. But I think Arthur Greer is guilty and John Button should mind his own business or help someone who is not described by the jailers as a 'sexually predatory psychopath.' Still, what a coincidence if LW's parents run that store...if so, there has to be a connection (like LW watched Greer, it disturbed him, but he also liked it).

 

[Bartholemeus]

2. I think it's likely true as well. I was somewhat teasing, just wondering if LW ever mentioned anything like this on your rides. But I was also serious, thanks for the answer. I am going to order the book soon.

I don't believe we ever talked specifics. Just small talk. He was a loner and clearly not a person I'd hang out with and talk about footy, girls and normal young adult/teenage stuff. I always had the impression he was just cruising around looking for hitch hikers to talk and don't recall what he said his reason for being out and about. I suspect he would have said something like "just coming home from work" or "been in the city" or "been at the casino" etc.

4. This is exactly what I mean. But I think Arthur Greer is guilty and John Button should mind his own business or help someone who is not described by the jailers as a 'sexually predatory psychopath.' Still, what a coincidence if LW's parents run that store...if so, there has to be a connection (like LW watched Greer, it disturbed him, but he also liked it).

If you go to Google Maps, Greer ran the Deli (short for Delicatessen and the word Perthites us for a corner store or milk bar. Basically sells bread, milk, chocolate bars, candy/lollies) which used to be at 598 Stirling Hwy Mosman Park. Sharon Mason's body was found buried out the back.

LW's parents ran a service station/garage (place where you purchase petrol from) on Stirling Hwy Mosman Park. I'm not sure which one it is but it's there are only 3 to choose from; 2 on the Cnr of Victoria St (across from Victoria St Station) and Cnr Willis St (a block down from where Sharon Mason was found). In saying that, I wouldn't think LW had anything to do with Mason.

 

[Laymaker]

Nice posts, Bart. I'm working on my write-up of LW (my analysis of this thread's existing info) but I realized that I have some responses and questions before I can continue. Sorry to put the work on everyone else...

Responses

JMC44 & Sutton – When I said CSK called the victim’s parents, I was referring to the phone call to Don Spiers in which an unidentified person told him that SS’s body was in a certain area. Don Spiers was convinced that this caller wasn’t a hoax.

Bart – I read a few summaries on this forum (from Sutton maybe?) that said SR was indeed suspected of foul play in the death of his disfigured beauty queen girlfriend. The way I understood it is that he was cleared, but this is still notable.

Bart - CIA documentary refers to POI who was a known sexual deviant with a gun in his car – was this a reference to LW? This is the source of my earlier description of LW having a gun.

Sutton – I don’t know what to think in terms of whether CSK committed earlier rapes or murders. I certainly believe he would have attempted something deviant at some point earlier. There would have been a propositioning of a passenger at least.

Questions

1. What was the broad timeline of LW's driving habit? How many years was he doing this?

2. Did anyone pass the polygraph? Judoman failed, LW failed, I haven't heard of anyone specifically passing it… According to Bart, the test examiner said he was convinced that LW is the killer – what did he say about Judoman then?

3. How fit, strong or athletic is LW?

4. Was the second undercover a blond matching the victim profile?

5. How would you theorize LW calling Don Spiers? Would he be able to hide his style of speaking? Would he be able to find an accessible phone? This may be a naive question...

6. Why are LW’s details so concentrated in coming from her in comparison to the details of other POIs?

7. What was the main theory and who was the main suspect after killing #1? After killing #2? Shortly after killing #3? I believe CSK was sensitive to this. It appears that PW was a suspect before the third killing since he was already calling Don Spiers at that point. I don't think LW was suspected until after the third killing since that is when he was discovered through mass surveillance.

8. How did PW make multiple calls to the victim’s parents with the only topic being “I am a suspect”? What would be the reason for a second call or third call? We need further description of these calls.

9. What was PW’s explanation for the newspaper clippings of the crimes?

10. On the BigFooty CSK thread, there was a lot of discussion surrounding a print shop in the abduction zone. This topic seemed to have been spurred by something WAPOL announced. Does anyone here have any summary of that line of inquiry?

11. Does anyone have more detail or a picture/map of JR in relation to the taxi rank? Wouldn’t there have been lots of people in that exact spot?

12. What are the biggest points against the SR/PW theory?

 

[Lavender Moon]

I had a concussion as a teenager . My best friend also had one several months before I had mine.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Bart - CIA documentary refers to POI who was a known sexual deviant with a gun in his car – was this a reference to LW? This is the source of my earlier description of LW having a gun.

I wouldn't think so.

Is he a sexual deviant from what we know? Probably not. There's more descriptive words to use such as "stalker".

Did he have a gun n his car? Certainly not when he was exposed by the media - otherwise it would have been leaked and reported. It's possible they found a gun at a later date and couldn't leak it to the press because they had maintained they never leaked his identity the first time. But that seems unlikely.

My guess for the "known sexual pervert with a gun under his seat" is Northbridge boot man. Maybe Donald Morey. Maybe both.

Would love to know who Northbridge Boot Man is.

 

[Bartholemeus]

1. What was the broad timeline of LW's driving habit? How many years was he doing this?

2. Did anyone pass the polygraph? Judoman failed, LW failed, I haven't heard of anyone specifically passing it… According to Bart, the test examiner said he was convinced that LW is the killer – what did he say about Judoman then?

3. How fit, strong or athletic is LW?

4. Was the second undercover a blond matching the victim profile?

5. How would you theorize LW calling Don Spiers? Would he be able to hide his style of speaking? Would he be able to find an accessible phone? This may be a naive question...

6. Why are LW’s details so concentrated in coming from her in comparison to the details of other POIs?

7. What was the main theory and who was the main suspect after killing #1? After killing #2? Shortly after killing #3? I believe CSK was sensitive to this. It appears that PW was a suspect before the third killing since he was already calling Don Spiers at that point. I don't think LW was suspected until after the third killing since that is when he was discovered through mass surveillance.

8. How did PW make multiple calls to the victim’s parents with the only topic being “I am a suspect”? What would be the reason for a second call or third call? We need further description of these calls.

9. What was PW’s explanation for the newspaper clippings of the crimes?

10. On the BigFooty CSK thread, there was a lot of discussion surrounding a print shop in the abduction zone. This topic seemed to have been spurred by something WAPOL announced. Does anyone here have any summary of that line of inquiry?

11. Does anyone have more detail or a picture/map of JR in relation to the taxi rank? Wouldn’t there have been lots of people in that exact spot?

12. What are the biggest points against the SR/PW theory?

1. Police became aware of him in September 1997 because they were running surveillance in Claremont. They followed him every day for 6 months and had his house wired. There were approximately 50 officers assigned to him (every night) as well as a helicopter.

When police stumbled across him they discovered he was an expert at stalking. He could follow women undetected (by the women). He lost his license long term for DUI and regained it a few days after SS disappeared. But I was getting lifts off him in 1988/89 and I knew he was driving around all night so I suspect he was doing from at least before then. Most likely he was doing this stalking for at least 8 years.

2. No idea what the poylgraph guy said about Judoman. DM's book came out in 2007. The Judoman CIA episode was in 2008. She made no mention of it. From memory Judoman's was "inconclusive" whilst LW's was "failed"

3. He's a massive pussy as far as I could tell. Can't imagine him being athletic or good at sport.

4. The book is unclear if it's the first or second decoy. DM only talks of one of the decoys; mid-30s, brunette, 172cm (i.e. tall for a girl), and buxom. page 131

5. I'm sure the police would have played recordings of LW's voice to DS. Most likely the caller wasn't LW

6. a) Because that's all police gave her, b) he was the main suspect. She talked about others but not to the same effect.

7. Correct. PW was suspect from the get go and it's not hard to see why. LW wasn't until months after the last killing. The public didn't have visibility on the suspects until LW was out in approximately April 1998 (a year after the final killing). I don't think PW was outed publicly until much later.

8. Don't know

9. Don't know

10. Police must have been following the blitz attack theory. On cnr Stirling Hwy/Rd there is a set of offices with an walkthrough to a carpark at the back that can be entered from Chatsworth Tce. One of these office units that faced the Hwy was a printing business. Police contacted the former owner asking if there was a clothes line at the back (at the time of the killings) or whether any materials had gone missing at the time. The owner was unable to help.

11. At 12am the only people in Claremont ar revelers at Conti and Club, and taxi drivers. The cab rank was across the road (Gugeri St) and outside the train station. You can Google Map it and see for yourself. Last trains were at 11:30 back then

12.

a. SR intelligence to commit the crimes
b. SR ability to withstand intense questioning without slipping up
c. PW alibi for one of the nights
d. No evidence found during searches

There's not enough evidence to rule them out.

 

[Sutton]

I would love to know who Northbridge Boot Man is.

Me, too. Let's email Con Bayens and ask him. He is not impressed with the work done to date. I just watched part of the Sunday Night episode again.

The shadow attorney general, John Quigley, is right on, but he's a bit spooky. Did he have severe pink eye in both eyes for the episode?

 

[Sutton]

I had a concussion as a teenager . My best friend also had one several months before I had mine.

Thanks for the feedback. I think they're pretty common.

 

[Sutton]

...they followed him every day for 6 months and had his house wired. There were approximately 50 officers assigned to him (every night) as well as a helicopter...
.

wth?!?

 

[Bartholemeus]

wth?!?

Yep. They were all over him like a cheap suit. They had the PolAir helicopter in the sky every night.

When you look at the circumstantial evidence police had (assuming what was relayed to us via police through Debbie Marshall is a true account) it makes sense. Everything added up to LW being the guy. In saying that, we now know they were being too tunnel visioned. In DM's book it says there was a small percentage of resources devoted to anything but LW but the headspace of these detectives must have been "we're just going through the motions".

 

[Jezz]

Yep. They were all over him like a cheap suit. They had the PolAir helicopter in the sky every night.

If is is true then this is a disgrace. What a seriously ridiculous thing to do to try and catch someone out.

No wonder perth detectives have such a rep of being useless.

I also read that the surveillance equipment above his desk at work fell out and hit him in the head.

*insert benny hill music*

 

[kemo]

I think there is very little doubt that all three women got into vehicles with the expectation that they would be driven to a requested destination for monetary compensation: I.e. A taxi of some sort.

World wide, taxis can be divided into three categories: legal, licensed taxis, illegal unlicensed taxis and what I call Gypsy taxis, ordinary cars that the owner uses to seek out fares who expect to pay significantly less than they would for a "real" taxi.

Legal and illegal taxis are very clearly marked and are often painted yellow with the distinctive "bubble" on top. I would expect that anyone who went to the expense of modifying his vehicle to look like a taxi would use it to earn a significant amount of their income. From what I have read, there was a considerable number of illegal taxis in the Perth area at the time of the CSK and there was a major crack down on them but no suspect emerged who was a driver of one of these.

Gypsy Taxis are common some places and rare other place but I suspect they exist anywhere there are car owners interested in making a little money on the side and folks who need rides and want to save a little. The big question is was this sort of arrangement common enough in Claremont that these three women would feel safe using one?

In the States, the two places I am aware Gypsy Taxis have operated are airports and outside bars around closing time. If such a system existed in Perth, regulars at the club scene would be aware of it and some would avail themselves of the service to save a buck. If such a service was not widely used in the area, it is unlikely that three women would just accept a ride from a stranger just to save a few dollars.

The big question is: did such a practice exist in Claremont? If it did, any sexual predator with a vehicle could pose as a Gypsy Taxi (he wouldn't have to have accepted a real fare).

If such a practice did not exist in Claremont, then the CSK must have had access to a legitimate looking taxi. Considering the resources put into this investigation, pretty much every legitimate looking taxi, legal and illegal, was accounted for and all who had access to it in the nights in question were known or should have been known, the field of possible suspects would be narrowed down considerably.

Does anyone know whether or not unmarked "gypsy taxis" we're known to be in business in the streets of Claremont during the time of the killings?

 

[Bartholemeus]

I think there is very little doubt that all three women got into vehicles with the expectation that they would be driven to a requested destination for monetary compensation: I.e. A taxi of some sort.

World wide, taxis can be divided into three categories: legal, licensed taxis, illegal unlicensed taxis and what I call Gypsy taxis, ordinary cars that the owner uses to seek out fares who expect to pay significantly less than they would for a "real" taxi.

Legal and illegal taxis are very clearly marked and are often painted yellow with the distinctive "bubble" on top. I would expect that anyone who went to the expense of modifying his vehicle to look like a taxi would use it to earn a significant amount of their income. From what I have read, there was a considerable number of illegal taxis in the Perth area at the time of the CSK and there was a major crack down on them but no suspect emerged who was a driver of one of these.

Gypsy Taxis are common some places and rare other place but I suspect they exist anywhere there are car owners interested in making a little money on the side and folks who need rides and want to save a little. The big question is was this sort of arrangement common enough in Claremont that these three women would feel safe using one?

In the States, the two places I am aware Gypsy Taxis have operated are airports and outside bars around closing time. If such a system existed in Perth, regulars at the club scene would be aware of it and some would avail themselves of the service to save a buck. If such a service was not widely used in the area, it is unlikely that three women would just accept a ride from a stranger just to save a few dollars.

The big question is: did such a practice exist in Claremont? If it did, any sexual predator with a vehicle could pose as a Gypsy Taxi (he wouldn't have to have accepted a real fare).

If such a practice did not exist in Claremont, then the CSK must have had access to a legitimate looking taxi. Considering the resources put into this investigation, pretty much every legitimate looking taxi, legal and illegal, was accounted for and all who had access to it in the nights in question were known or should have been known, the field of possible suspects would be narrowed down considerably.

Does anyone know whether or not unmarked "gypsy taxis" we're known to be in business in the streets of Claremont during the time of the killings?

I can say with absolute certainty that Gypsy Taxi's did not exist in the Claremont area at the time.

I also don't think the girls would have accepted a lift to save money necessarily. In SS's case it may have been fear of sitting there for a few hours until a taxi came. CG was reportedly hitch hiking so would have been open to a ride. JR, maybe felt a bit depressed about being single and was vulnerable.

SR claims police had the logs from the night which proves it's not him. But if this were true, then they wouldn't have investigated him for years. I wonder what data they did have, if any? He could have simply not switched on and the base would think he's not working on that night.

 

[Jezz]

I was in high school around that time but I do recall that there were taxis other than your big companies. It was understood that independent people might drive their own cars as cabs. It stopped not long after all this though.

I never really considered that the 'taxi' they got into would have been a big company one as that would have been very risky to the killer. Always thought it was someone using one of these independent or 'gypsy' taxis.

 

[Sutton]

I wouldn't think so.

Is he a sexual deviant from what we know? Probably not. There's more descriptive words to use such as "stalker".

Did he have a gun n his car? Certainly not when he was exposed by the media - otherwise it would have been leaked and reported. It's possible they found a gun at a later date and couldn't leak it to the press because they had maintained they never leaked his identity the first time. But that seems unlikely.

My guess for the "known sexual pervert with a gun under his seat" is Northbridge boot man. Maybe Donald Morey. Maybe both.

Would love to know who Northbridge Boot Man is.

On this topic, Con Bayens really felt the Northbridge Boot Man could have been the CSK. I don't know who Con is, or what his reputation is, but he headed a team to clean up the blatant prostitution in family areas. He seems a bit like a character, but one who knows what he's talking about.

A boot neatly and complete lined in plastic (looked like a blue tarp in TV re-enacting), with duct tape, zip ties and pliers. The man was driving an unmarked police car purchased at auction. He was talking to sex workers.

The Northbridge Boot Man has to be the semi-automatic rifle man mentioned on the CIA. IMO.

'Macro conducted saturation undercover surveillance of the general Claremont area...This resulted in the identification of men who followed women along the street and a number of rogue taxi drivers. [Among those identified during this surveillance] are two men who can provide no alibis for the times the three victims went missing.

One was a known sexual pervert who had a semi-automatic rifle and ammunition concealed under the front seat of his car. Ciara's body is believed to have been abandoned in bushland on the night she was killed and this man knew the area so well he could have easily found his way along the bush tracks at night.'

Can anyone post a reason, other than intended kidnapping and restraint, to have a lined boot, containing zip ties, duct tape and pliers?

I thought Donald Morey was ruled out as CSK...I guess I'll have to look this up...

 

[Bartholemeus]

I was in high school around that time but I do recall that there were taxis other than your big companies. It was understood that independent people might drive their own cars as cabs. It stopped not long after all this though.

I never really considered that the 'taxi' they got into would have been a big company one as that would have been very risky to the killer. Always thought it was someone using one of these independent or 'gypsy' taxis.

These "gypsy taxis" didn't exist around the Claremont area at the time. So that leaves the options:

a) The CSK only pulled out his Gypsy cab routine when he was working/killing
b) A gypsy cab who frequented other parts of the city knew he could get girls into his car and on the nights in question went to Claremont with abduction and murder in mind
c) The CSK had a car made up like a cab. Could have been an ex-cab driver who kept the roof light etc and made a magnet sticker for his door

I can't find the article where it's specified who were the cab drivers who had their licenses taken off them. I know lots were just cabbies who had serious crim records and a few were bogus. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Sutton]

??? I 'm not sure what you mean.

Can't speak for Barth, but I think he was intentionally inflating the correlation, basically just joking. But he can correct me if I'm wrong.