Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia

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There has been a lot of speculation surrounding the location of the victims bodies which has been mostly driven by the theory that there is something ritualistic about the choice of these sites. The “logic“ I believe relates to the JR and CG sites being equidistant to each other and reinforced by intriguing comments from a MrPhibes and NC. The latter posting an image of a swamp as one last act of mystery which seems to me too Dan Brown-esque to take seriously. Its probably just a photo of Lake Claremont which is swampland.
The geography of these locations can tell us a lot about the perpetrator but it won’t reveal anything as sensational as a Charles Manson copy-cat that MrPhibes & co would offer up. If we take the Occam razor approach - the simplest explanation being the correct one - then we can develop a profile of our perp. For most of you this approach will seem a little dry, revealing what is already known, what you assume is already the case, or lacking in imagaination. I don’t apologies for it!

So what do we know about the geography of these locations?

Pipidinny (Eglinton) is a beach fishing spot.
• People go there to fish and camp. I myself did twice during the early 90s (if there are any other activities that go on there please let me know - no facetious responses).
• Its not as well known as some other high profile recreational spots in Perth like Rottnest Is, Kings park, Cottesloe beach etc.
• Because it meets specific recreational needs i.e. fishing or camping you either know about it or you don’t.
• You don’t need a 4WD to access the road but you do for the beach and tracks.

Wellard in 1997 was bushland.
I have to admit I had never heard of Wellard until JR was discovered there so I am not entirely sure what type of people this area would attract during this period, but suggestions would include:
• Local Bushwalkers.
• Surveyors/Developers
• Illegal rubbish dumpers.
• Motocross riders.
Whatever the attraction is to this area either to enjoy it, destroy it or pollute it the common denominator is simply the isolated bushland.

What does the geography tell us specifically about our perp?
They have knowledge of:
• Public accessible recreational areas north of Perth.
• recreational areas that are 'not well known'.
• areas of isolated, inconspicuous bushland south of Perth.
• the stretch of coast from the south to the north of Perth.
• the greater Perth metropolitan area.

What do we know about the sites where the victims’ bodies were found?
• Two bodies have been discovered each of them located at separate sites;
• both bodies were found off the main road.
• the bodies were found a short distance from the road.
• one body was discovered by a bushwalker.
• the bodies were covered only lightly with branches, sticks and leaves
• there were no graves.
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...a-glennons-death/story-fnhocxo3-1227173673919

What recent information about the case has come to light in regards to these sites?
That a builder had observed a taxi with its lights turned-off exiting Pipidinny rd indicating that it was heading south (city bound) at around 4:30am in the morning around the date of CGs disappearance. The builder commented that he never saw a taxi that far north of Perth during his 36 years of living in the area.
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...a-glennons-death/story-fnhocxo3-1227173673919

What we can be extrapolated from all the information above?
• the perp is a practical, outdoors person possibly who is into fishing or camping.
• who is aware of isolated bush areas through frequent visiting or passing by, proximity to residence, coast or local knowledge.
• who is aware that these areas do not require 4WD access.
• who does not fear walking through the bush with a dead body.
• who has the strength to carry a ~55-70kg weight.
• who didn’t think it necessary to bury the bodies.
• who knows at what time of the night/day human activity is low in these areas.
• whose choice of site is within 10kms of the coast.
• who does not know that taxis do not service the Eglinton area (circa 1997).

This is what we now know about the perp:
• They have the physical strength or know a technique for carrying the weight of another person or there in more than one perp sharing the load.
• They are a Perth local – with knowledge of isolated areas south and north of Perth.
• They stick within proximity of the coast – Pipidinny is a fishing beach, Wellard is close by to Kwinana beach.
• They’re an outdoorsy type – into fishing or camping.
• They know there sites well – what type of vehicle is required and the best time to go undetected.
• They’re highly mobile – the distance covered between Claremont and the two sites indicates the perp isn’t constrained by time, distance, knows the terrain and doesn’t lack access to a vehicle.
• They have no respect for the deceased – incomplete burial sites.
• They are fearless and confident in their own abilities – carrying dead bodies into bushland and leaving them partly exposed as if to expect them to never be discovered.
• They are careless: – the victims bodies have been discovered, they don’t conceal the bodies in a grave and
the bodies are located only a short distance from the roadside.
• They are reactive – when JRs body is discovered the perpetrator reacts by choosing another site that is over 80kms away.
• They are not careful planners – there vehicle becomes noticeable due to the lack of research into how far the taxi service extends north of Perth.

Two questions then:

• What publicly named POI does this profile best fit?

• What profession would this profile suit?



When I was compiling this there was one scenario that I permitted myself to draw on which was this:

The perp reacts to JR being found and looks for a new site north of Perth. An indication they didn’t expect JR to be discovered just like SS wasn’t. For CG they choose a site that is the furthest from JRs, furthest from their residence, a coastal location they know intimately, but not too far as to not be able to return back during the night under the cover of darkness. But they don’t realise that a taxi would never travel that far north and they get themselves noticed. With SSs body not having been discovered, but then JRs surprisingly within eight weeks and finally CGs within only three weeks, for the perp the writing is on the wall and the murders cease. Knowledge of the isolated, inconspicuous bushland in Wellard suggests within proximity of residence with Pipidinny being the furthest practical distance and known location from residence. Interested to know where ex Detective Paul Ferguson thinks SS is located?
 
Well I'm sorry my theory does not fit yours?

Pretty sure I've explained why I think what I think in more than enough detail.

It doesn't change from day to day or hour to hour.

And the comments on grooming, were in response to Fortune Cookie's more than reasonable observation that he thought perhaps droc was being groomed to join the gang. I believe that you commented on that as well?

And I did not say I had "bought into it" I said I found it fascinating that all his sums did in fact add up.

I thought you said you felt this thread was dead if nobody felt safe to post their opinions or even brainstorm?

May I suggest that hypocritical criticism is not constructive?

Yes, all what you say could be true, but the whole reason for sleuthing this is to opine our ideas and connect the dots, is it not? So what does it matter if there are some extra dots? Half the work is about eliminating the impossible, so killing the possible would be counter productive.
In no way was I hypocritical and didn't mean any harm Joan. Just wondered. Although I don't think Droc being groomed has anything to do with pedo's and the link you posted on grooming. Chalk and cheese.
 
There has been a lot of speculation surrounding the location of the victims bodies which has been mostly driven by the theory that there is something ritualistic about the choice of these sites. The “logic“ I believe relates to the JR and CG sites being equidistant to each other and reinforced by intriguing comments from a MrPhibes and NC. The latter posting an image of a swamp as one last act of mystery which seems to me too Dan Brown-esque to take seriously. Its probably just a photo of Lake Claremont which is swampland.
The geography of these locations can tell us a lot about the perpetrator but it won’t reveal anything as sensational as a Charles Manson copy-cat that MrPhibes & co would offer up. If we take the Occam razor approach - the simplest explanation being the correct one - then we can develop a profile of our perp. For most of you this approach will seem a little dry, revealing what is already known, what you assume is already the case, or lacking in imagaination. I don’t apologies for it!

So what do we know about the geography of these locations?

Pipidinny (Eglinton) is a beach fishing spot.
• People go there to fish and camp. I myself did twice during the early 90s (if there are any other activities that go on there please let me know - no facetious responses).
• Its not as well known as some other high profile recreational spots in Perth like Rottnest Is, Kings park, Cottesloe beach etc.
• Because it meets specific recreational needs i.e. fishing or camping you either know about it or you don’t.
• You don’t need a 4WD to access the road but you do for the beach and tracks.

Wellard in 1997 was bushland.
I have to admit I had never heard of Wellard until JR was discovered there so I am not entirely sure what type of people this area would attract during this period, but suggestions would include:
• Local Bushwalkers.
• Surveyors/Developers
• Illegal rubbish dumpers.
• Motocross riders.
Whatever the attraction is to this area either to enjoy it, destroy it or pollute it the common denominator is simply the isolated bushland.

What does the geography tell us specifically about our perp?
They have knowledge of:
• Public accessible recreational areas north of Perth.
• recreational areas that are 'not well known'.
• areas of isolated, inconspicuous bushland south of Perth.
• the stretch of coast from the south to the north of Perth.
• the greater Perth metropolitan area.

What do we know about the sites where the victims’ bodies were found?
• Two bodies have been discovered each of them located at separate sites;
• both bodies were found off the main road.
• the bodies were found a short distance from the road.
• one body was discovered by a bushwalker.
• the bodies were covered only lightly with branches, sticks and leaves
• there were no graves.
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...a-glennons-death/story-fnhocxo3-1227173673919

What recent information about the case has come to light in regards to these sites?
That a builder had observed a taxi with its lights turned-off exiting Pipidinny rd indicating that it was heading south (city bound) at around 4:30am in the morning around the date of CGs disappearance. The builder commented that he never saw a taxi that far north of Perth during his 36 years of living in the area.
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...a-glennons-death/story-fnhocxo3-1227173673919

What we can be extrapolated from all the information above?
• the perp is a practical, outdoors person possibly who is into fishing or camping.
• who is aware of isolated bush areas through frequent visiting or passing by, proximity to residence, coast or local knowledge.
• who is aware that these areas do not require 4WD access.
• who does not fear walking through the bush with a dead body.
• who has the strength to carry a ~55-70kg weight.
• who didn’t think it necessary to bury the bodies.
• who knows at what time of the night/day human activity is low in these areas.
• whose choice of site is within 10kms of the coast.
• who does not know that taxis do not service the Eglinton area (circa 1997).

This is what we now know about the perp:
• They have the physical strength or know a technique for carrying the weight of another person or there in more than one perp sharing the load.
• They are a Perth local – with knowledge of isolated areas south and north of Perth.
• They stick within proximity of the coast – Pipidinny is a fishing beach, Wellard is close by to Kwinana beach.
• They’re an outdoorsy type – into fishing or camping.
• They know there sites well – what type of vehicle is required and the best time to go undetected.
• They’re highly mobile – the distance covered between Claremont and the two sites indicates the perp isn’t constrained by time, distance, knows the terrain and doesn’t lack access to a vehicle.
• They have no respect for the deceased – incomplete burial sites.
• They are fearless and confident in their own abilities – carrying dead bodies into bushland and leaving them partly exposed as if to expect them to never be discovered.
• They are careless: – the victims bodies have been discovered, they don’t conceal the bodies in a grave and
the bodies are located only a short distance from the roadside.
• They are reactive – when JRs body is discovered the perpetrator reacts by choosing another site that is over 80kms away.
• They are not careful planners – there vehicle becomes noticeable due to the lack of research into how far the taxi service extends north of Perth.

Two questions then:

• What publicly named POI does this profile best fit?

• What profession would this profile suit?



When I was compiling this there was one scenario that I permitted myself to draw on which was this:

The perp reacts to JR being found and looks for a new site north of Perth. An indication they didn’t expect JR to be discovered just like SS wasn’t. For CG they choose a site that is the furthest from JRs, furthest from their residence, a coastal location they know intimately, but not too far as to not be able to return back during the night under the cover of darkness. But they don’t realise that a taxi would never travel that far north and they get themselves noticed. With SSs body not having been discovered, but then JRs surprisingly within eight weeks and finally CGs within only three weeks, for the perp the writing is on the wall and the murders cease. Knowledge of the isolated, inconspicuous bushland in Wellard suggests within proximity of residence with Pipidinny being the furthest practical distance and known location from residence. Interested to know where ex Detective Paul Ferguson thinks SS is located?

Great post and I think the profession and abduction method was a Taxi driver or outdoors-man as you say with access to a taxi. The taxi coming out of Pippindiny is a real piece of evidence. Had no place being there with it's lights off which just reaffirms my belief in the taxi theory. I had wondered for a bit whether the perp wanted the bodies to be found with the equidistant''s of the bodies but the carrying of that weight for 50 meters in one case would prove that wrong. Same with the covering of the branches which is pretty much what Ivan Milat done. So the equidistant's is a personal thing and not something they wanted to be known. Surely when they chose Pippindiny they worked out precisely where so the line would intersect Claremont.

I read in Debbie Marshalls book that there was a girl who mentioned to her Councillor, that the girls were being killed in some sort of ritualistic fashion by a group in the caves up near Yanchep. I'm sure this has been looked into but is another mention of a group theory. From the time it took for the bodies to be found. 8 weeks and 3 weeks, I wonder how macro came up with the theory the girls were killed shortly after they were abducted. Yes you can tell by how decomposed the bodies are but that doesn't mean they weren't kept for days before being killed. The only point I would disagree on is that I think they are very careful planners and the placement and abduction methods and the fact they have remained elusive for this many years has proved that. Thanks for such a comprehensive post and another few things to think about.
1. SS rang a taxi and minutes later when one arrived was gone. I have no doubt one pulled up and she just hopped in. SR had a stun gun.
2. I pretty much seen JR hop in a taxi in the footage that was first released.
3. CG was 27 and very careful, her friends said she would not have gotten in a car with someone she didn't know and was looking for a taxi.
Taxi. Taxi. Taxi.

POI
SR... Droc... Droc's TT and company... Judoman...
 
I believe the article on grooming was not in fact describing specifically the grooming of children for sexual abuse, but the way VIOLENT ABUSERS (especially those with a paraphilia, and even more so in those with paraphilias ie: those who are into everything and anything) abuse and GROOM everyone around them ie institutional or peripheral grooming).

To have gotten away with this for as long as what he/they has/have, I would say the perp or perps would have had to do quite a bit of lying to many people. I linked to the article to describe that process. I quote from the article:

"Although it is a common belief that grooming is most relevant to children, the same or similar psychological processes are used by perpetrators to exploit adults. In the case of adult grooming, the victims family and friends are also manipulated into thinking the perpetrator is a "nice guy" and that he can be trusted.

It is not only a perpetrator's victims that are groomed (which would be considered emotional abuse), but the victims' family and friends, the perpetrator's own family and friends, and even public servants and medical professionals (in which case it is purposeful manipulation).
The grooming of doctors, nurses, mental health carers, family support workers and other public servants is called "Institutional Grooming" and the perpetrator does it for the purpose of self-preservation.
Institutional grooming refers to the manipulation of professionals who have contact with the victim, so that any allegations of abuse made by the victim are doubted or outright disbelieved.
The targets of Institutional Groomers may include their victim's General Practitioner, psychiatrist, psychologist, child health nurse, pediatrician, carers at a Family Day Care Facility, school teachers, counselors or therapists. The public servants targeted may be social workers, case workers, investigative officers or police officers employed by government departments such as the Department For Child Protection, the Police's Family Protection Unit and the Department for Community Development. When done with enough finesse to be successful, institutional grooming ensures that any complaints alleged about the perpetrator are either disregarded outright, doubted and therefore not investigated thoroughly, or if acted upon, subsequently dismissed in a court of law.":

IJMO but I thought it was relevant to that particular aspect of the discussion/

It is also JMO but the cops have now focused on the single perp theory for 20 years and it has not exactly made them look like modern Sherlock Holmes. I have noticed that other users of this forum seem to tolerate me and others by simply ignoring that which does not go "ding ding ding" inside their brains and moving on to the next, rather than spending hours discussing why it was relevant to what case when where to who and what for?

Can we please agree to some basic assumptions?

For instance:
- Trying to crack a cold case involves brainstorming to bring out new ideas and review old evidence in the context of a different light.
- Brainstorming is about throwing ideas out there, no matter how obscure or unrelated it seems.
- The point of brainstorming in a group is to get info out of our brains and into a meme medium (ie: sound in local group, text or other in web group etc) IOW it is about the sharing of ideas. If we were all sitting around a table and yelling out what ever pops into our minds, then no-one would be stopping to say hey, you're and idiot for saying that, it's not relevant. Have you ever sat in a group of exceptional's and listened to them brainstorm? Amusing to say the least, and yet a powerful tool in the advancement of science historically?
-Analytical thinking involves sifting through the mass of information and finding patterns, not finding reasons why one theory fits at the exclusion of all others.
-I believe you keep referring to the ignore button. I have yet to use it because I like to keep my mind open, but that was not what I was thinking about when I said hypocritical criticism..

Peace?
 
I read in Debbie Marshalls book that there was a girl who mentioned to her Councillor, that the girls were being killed in some sort of ritualistic fashion by a group in the caves up near Yanchep. I'm sure this has been looked into but is another mention of a group theory. From the time it took for the bodies to be found. 8 weeks and 3 weeks, I wonder how macro came up with the theory the girls were killed shortly after they were abducted. Yes you can tell by how decomposed the bodies are but that doesn't mean they weren't kept for days before being killed. The only point I would disagree on is that I think they are very careful planners and the placement and abduction methods and the fact they have remained elusive for this many years has proved that. Thanks for such a comprehensive post

Yes I agree, and #1 is very familiar with Yanchep and the caves especially.
Interesting that the rest of your speculation, as also it is with others, fits into my theory as well.
That is how I came up with my theory.
I started investigating 1 and 2. I could not rule them out. So I started researching the case.
As have the police done (though be some of it based only on their word) I have eliminated various POI's but not completely disregarded them.
The deeper I dig, the more connections to other things I find.
That is why my group theory doe not just pertain to the csk.

Shadow boxer yo seem able to read between the lines when you so choose?
 
Yes I agree, and #1 is very familiar with Yanchep and the caves especially.
Interesting that the rest of your speculation, as also it is with others, fits into my theory as well.
That is how I came up with my theory.
I started investigating 1 and 2. I could not rule them out. So I started researching the case.
As have the police done (though be some of it based only on their word) I have eliminated various POI's but not completely disregarded them.
The deeper I dig, the more connections to other things I find.
That is why my group theory doe not just pertain to the csk.

Shadow boxer yo seem able to read between the lines when you so choose?

Your above post is very well said and makes perfect sense. I'm sorry if you took any offense to the post. You are correct, tossing of Idea's around can't hurt I guess. I think we can all be a bit repetative with our own theories. All good.
I don't know about reading between the lines. I just post what I see, think and feel.
 
Regarding the JR site.

I grew up in the area and was a teenager at the time. I used to 4wd around there when I first got my car. I actually had occasion to go to Kwinana to visit a relative this morning and was compelled (probably after having been reading this post!) to drive past the site. I remember driving past it a few weeks after JR was found once the police were done and seeing the cross they put up for her. It was really creepy at the time and I actually had nightmares that night. Today I couldn't see the cross there anymore, unless it's hidden in the bushes or fallen down.

Anyway, what I wanted to add is that I knew the area pretty well at the time and I feel that there is no way she could have been there longer than a couple of days. The place she was found, yes was in dense bush but from the road to the adjoining paddock fence is no more than about 2-3m. It's a strip of roadside.

Also back then the street, although a gravel track that was really only used by residents, still had traffic on it. There were a few houses in the immediate vicinity and the paddocks alongside where she was found belonged to a riding school. In order to not have been just about on the road she would have had to have been pretty much right up against the paddock fence which was just wire.

I actually attended the riding school as a kid years before these deaths but still knew people that went there regularly. One friend knew the guy that came across the woman screaming when she found the body, so saw it also. He heard her from the paddock and came over. Funny thing is he said that that morning he had been out there with the horses and for the first time ever they were acting weird and refused to go near that end of the paddock like they were spooked. The police interviewed him at length and even grilled him as a suspect for a while. He also said he had noticed a white ute stop on that road in that spot a day or two before and when he walked over to see if they needed help they peeled off. May be related, may not.

Anyway, the point is I feel that they were kept alive somewhere for a while before being killed, or at least their bodies were held somewhere. There is no way someone would not have come across Jane in those weeks after her disappearance.
 
I find that Perth's small size and isolation, the length of time that has elapsed, social/cultural inter-generational factors, the various differences of all those aspects between all involved (victims, their families/friends, investigators, witnesses, &their associative circles etc...), and the tendencies for all those things to overlap (as professional / social circles and cultural patterns wont to do, especially in small cities), have resulted in some interesting if paradoxical theories, the most popular of which have also subsequently developed and changed over time to the point where it seems that, now, we have divided into opinionated circles of opposing factions, all with theories that seem to be logical yet also emotively based, or at least emotionally championed, but none of which can be excluded, as a result and which in turn is resulting in a not insignificant amount of conflict between all of those varying elements of this investigation, whether in the professional areas of investigation or those on the amateur side of things, as shown here.

I have noticed similar conflict in similar cold cases in this and other amateur / hobby sleuth sites / forums. Wonder if the causes are the same?

Just found it interesting, that's all.
 
Regarding the JR site.

I grew up in the area and was a teenager at the time. I used to 4wd around there when I first got my car. I actually had occasion to go to Kwinana to visit a relative this morning and was compelled (probably after having been reading this post!) to drive past the site. I remember driving past it a few weeks after JR was found once the police were done and seeing the cross they put up for her. It was really creepy at the time and I actually had nightmares that night. Today I couldn't see the cross there anymore, unless it's hidden in the bushes or fallen down.

Anyway, what I wanted to add is that I knew the area pretty well at the time and I feel that there is no way she could have been there longer than a couple of days. The place she was found, yes was in dense bush but from the road to the adjoining paddock fence is no more than about 2-3m. It's a strip of roadside.

Also back then the street, although a gravel track that was really only used by residents, still had traffic on it. There were a few houses in the immediate vicinity and the paddocks alongside where she was found belonged to a riding school. In order to not have been just about on the road she would have had to have been pretty much right up against the paddock fence which was just wire.

I actually attended the riding school as a kid years before these deaths but still knew people that went there regularly. One friend knew the guy that came across the woman screaming when she found the body, so saw it also. He heard her from the paddock and came over. Funny thing is he said that that morning he had been out there with the horses and for the first time ever they were acting weird and refused to go near that end of the paddock like they were spooked. The police interviewed him at length and even grilled him as a suspect for a while. He also said he had noticed a white ute stop on that road in that spot a day or two before and when he walked over to see if they needed help they peeled off. May be related, may not.

Anyway, the point is I feel that they were kept alive somewhere for a while before being killed, or at least their bodies were held somewhere. There is no way someone would not have come across Jane in those weeks after her disappearance.

Thanks Jezz.

I too was a horse rider in the area in the early 90's and agree with you that it is very unlikely that she had been there very long, and your story really backs that up.

Be curious to know what kind of ute it was.

Also, Tapper's Horse Hire, it was in Jandacot I believe, just off Hammond road. What I'm not sure on is if the areas for common riding included the area where JR was found? Or were you at a private riding school and this paddock not an area used by Tappers/ Brown's Horse riders?

Did have a link to someone's map of where the two bodies were found but can't find it.
 
Regarding the JR site.

I grew up in the area and was a teenager at the time. I used to 4wd around there when I first got my car. I actually had occasion to go to Kwinana to visit a relative this morning and was compelled (probably after having been reading this post!) to drive past the site. I remember driving past it a few weeks after JR was found once the police were done and seeing the cross they put up for her. It was really creepy at the time and I actually had nightmares that night. Today I couldn't see the cross there anymore, unless it's hidden in the bushes or fallen down.

Anyway, what I wanted to add is that I knew the area pretty well at the time and I feel that there is no way she could have been there longer than a couple of days. The place she was found, yes was in dense bush but from the road to the adjoining paddock fence is no more than about 2-3m. It's a strip of roadside.

Also back then the street, although a gravel track that was really only used by residents, still had traffic on it. There were a few houses in the immediate vicinity and the paddocks alongside where she was found belonged to a riding school. In order to not have been just about on the road she would have had to have been pretty much right up against the paddock fence which was just wire.

I actually attended the riding school as a kid years before these deaths but still knew people that went there regularly. One friend knew the guy that came across the woman screaming when she found the body, so saw it also. He heard her from the paddock and came over. Funny thing is he said that that morning he had been out there with the horses and for the first time ever they were acting weird and refused to go near that end of the paddock like they were spooked. The police interviewed him at length and even grilled him as a suspect for a while. He also said he had noticed a white ute stop on that road in that spot a day or two before and when he walked over to see if they needed help they peeled off. May be related, may not.

Anyway, the point is I feel that they were kept alive somewhere for a while before being killed, or at least their bodies were held somewhere. There is no way someone would not have come across Jane in those weeks after her disappearance.

This is really interesting. I remember the pictures in Debbie Marshalls book. One thing I thought I seen was a tree taped off about 50 metres away from the dump site. Not sure if that's correct or not. Would love to find that book again. So would have been found in days hey not weeks. That's a scary thought in so many levels.
 
It was called Greenacres riding school. Went past today and it looks like it hasn't been open for quite a while. Fallen into total disrepair.
 
You just prompted me to go look at my copy of the book and the picture is captioned
"where jane rimmers body lay hidden in a roadside for 54 days"
No chance, that must have just been a guess based on how long she was missing.
Another picture in the book shows the cross and some detectives on the road and they just about could have reached over and touched it. Not far from the road at all.

I remember the thinking at the time was that he didn't get the level of attention he was after when SS body was not found so put JR where she was definitely noticeable.

Also it strikes me that he must have known the area as this was no thoroughfare or well known road.
 
There has been a lot of speculation surrounding the location of the victims bodies which has been mostly driven by the theory that there is something ritualistic about the choice of these sites. The “logic“ I believe relates to the JR and CG sites being equidistant to each other and reinforced by intriguing comments from a MrPhibes and NC. The latter posting an image of a swamp as one last act of mystery which seems to me too Dan Brown-esque to take seriously. Its probably just a photo of Lake Claremont which is swampland.
The geography of these locations can tell us a lot about the perpetrator but it won’t reveal anything as sensational as a Charles Manson copy-cat that MrPhibes & co would offer up. If we take the Occam razor approach - the simplest explanation being the correct one - then we can develop a profile of our perp. For most of you this approach will seem a little dry, revealing what is already known, what you assume is already the case, or lacking in imagaination. I don’t apologies for it!

So what do we know about the geography of these locations?

Pipidinny (Eglinton) is a beach fishing spot.
• People go there to fish and camp. I myself did twice during the early 90s (if there are any other activities that go on there please let me know - no facetious responses).
• Its not as well known as some other high profile recreational spots in Perth like Rottnest Is, Kings park, Cottesloe beach etc.
• Because it meets specific recreational needs i.e. fishing or camping you either know about it or you don’t.
• You don’t need a 4WD to access the road but you do for the beach and tracks.

Wellard in 1997 was bushland.
I have to admit I had never heard of Wellard until JR was discovered there so I am not entirely sure what type of people this area would attract during this period, but suggestions would include:
• Local Bushwalkers.
• Surveyors/Developers
• Illegal rubbish dumpers.
• Motocross riders.
Whatever the attraction is to this area either to enjoy it, destroy it or pollute it the common denominator is simply the isolated bushland.

What does the geography tell us specifically about our perp?
They have knowledge of:
• Public accessible recreational areas north of Perth.
• recreational areas that are 'not well known'.
• areas of isolated, inconspicuous bushland south of Perth.
• the stretch of coast from the south to the north of Perth.
• the greater Perth metropolitan area.

What do we know about the sites where the victims’ bodies were found?
• Two bodies have been discovered each of them located at separate sites;
• both bodies were found off the main road.
• the bodies were found a short distance from the road.
• one body was discovered by a bushwalker.
• the bodies were covered only lightly with branches, sticks and leaves
• there were no graves.
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...a-glennons-death/story-fnhocxo3-1227173673919

What recent information about the case has come to light in regards to these sites?
That a builder had observed a taxi with its lights turned-off exiting Pipidinny rd indicating that it was heading south (city bound) at around 4:30am in the morning around the date of CGs disappearance. The builder commented that he never saw a taxi that far north of Perth during his 36 years of living in the area.
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...a-glennons-death/story-fnhocxo3-1227173673919

What we can be extrapolated from all the information above?
• the perp is a practical, outdoors person possibly who is into fishing or camping.
• who is aware of isolated bush areas through frequent visiting or passing by, proximity to residence, coast or local knowledge.
• who is aware that these areas do not require 4WD access.
• who does not fear walking through the bush with a dead body.
• who has the strength to carry a ~55-70kg weight.
• who didn’t think it necessary to bury the bodies.
• who knows at what time of the night/day human activity is low in these areas.
• whose choice of site is within 10kms of the coast.
• who does not know that taxis do not service the Eglinton area (circa 1997).

This is what we now know about the perp:
• They have the physical strength or know a technique for carrying the weight of another person or there in more than one perp sharing the load.
• They are a Perth local – with knowledge of isolated areas south and north of Perth.
• They stick within proximity of the coast – Pipidinny is a fishing beach, Wellard is close by to Kwinana beach.
• They’re an outdoorsy type – into fishing or camping.
• They know there sites well – what type of vehicle is required and the best time to go undetected.
• They’re highly mobile – the distance covered between Claremont and the two sites indicates the perp isn’t constrained by time, distance, knows the terrain and doesn’t lack access to a vehicle.
• They have no respect for the deceased – incomplete burial sites.
• They are fearless and confident in their own abilities – carrying dead bodies into bushland and leaving them partly exposed as if to expect them to never be discovered.
• They are careless: – the victims bodies have been discovered, they don’t conceal the bodies in a grave and
the bodies are located only a short distance from the roadside.
• They are reactive – when JRs body is discovered the perpetrator reacts by choosing another site that is over 80kms away.
• They are not careful planners – there vehicle becomes noticeable due to the lack of research into how far the taxi service extends north of Perth.

Two questions then:

• What publicly named POI does this profile best fit?

• What profession would this profile suit?



When I was compiling this there was one scenario that I permitted myself to draw on which was this:

The perp reacts to JR being found and looks for a new site north of Perth. An indication they didn’t expect JR to be discovered just like SS wasn’t. For CG they choose a site that is the furthest from JRs, furthest from their residence, a coastal location they know intimately, but not too far as to not be able to return back during the night under the cover of darkness. But they don’t realise that a taxi would never travel that far north and they get themselves noticed. With SSs body not having been discovered, but then JRs surprisingly within eight weeks and finally CGs within only three weeks, for the perp the writing is on the wall and the murders cease. Knowledge of the isolated, inconspicuous bushland in Wellard suggests within proximity of residence with Pipidinny being the furthest practical distance and known location from residence. Interested to know where ex Detective Paul Ferguson thinks SS is located?
Great post. A few thoughts;

1. I've never been convinced that the CSK had to know those areas previously. When I killed my victims I just did some recon a few months out and found some good isolated spots that I could access with my Ford Laser.
2. I also think the best scenario with SS is that his dumping ground was south but when JR was discovered he had to go somewhere else. SS and JR south, CG north. There's a good chance he looked at the UBD with a ruler and picked out Pippidinny for no other reason that to screw with investigators. I don't believe this has any real relevance in terms of solving the case.
3. Regarding the brickie who saw the taxi. He insists it was a Sunday morning but CG was abducted late Fri Night/Early Saturday morning. Did he get it wrong and it wasn't a taxi? Is he lying? Or did CG get dumped the next night?
4. This was talked about on BF: SS was abducted at 2am and sunrise was at 5-ish am. 3 hours. Pretty tight considering she has never been found. Why? First victim and the whole thing was rushed (abduct, kill, ritual, then bury her somewhere we she wouldn't be found)? Did he bury her locally (like under his deck or carport)? Or did he keep her at his house and dump the body the next night, or at a later date?
5. They searched LW's Cottesloe beachfront unit. What for? Souvenirs and/or trace? Do police actually think the CSK took the girls or bodies to a location?
6. I lean towards JR's body sitting there for 8 weeks and it was pure luck it wasn't found earlier. I just don't see someone moving an 8 week old body.
7. Why change his MO from "you will never find the body" to "you will find it soon enough"? Was it because of time constraints? Maybe SS was the first and he had a grave pre-dug and the next time around felt this too risky because if anyone happened upon it the police would be waiting for him when he was doing the dump (that's debateable though given WAPOL's keystone reputation). He obviously tried to hide JR so the intention was for her to not be found for as long as possible.
8. Why do police think the girls were killed soon after abduction and close to the abduction site? They had to have been subdued very quickly. There's talk about JR's watch but this could have stopped during a struggle to subdue rather than the kill. CG was found after 3 weeks. Would have they been able to work out a time of death accurate to an hour each way? I wouldn't think so.
9. Droc was convinced the throats were cut. I don't buy it and lean heavily towards asphixiation/strangulation.


If I was to make a profile:

- Taxi taxi taxi taxi
- Local to western suburbs (I feel he targeted western suburbs girls because he resented that he could never get them even though he felt he local)
- Professional
- 25-35 at the time
- 1 killer, maybe 2
- Lived locally by himself and din't have a lot of friends drop around so had privacy
- The Karakatta and/or Princes Rd incident is linked

Both SR and Judoman are high on my list.
 
You just prompted me to go look at my copy of the book and the picture is captioned
"where jane rimmers body lay hidden in a roadside for 54 days"
No chance, that must have just been a guess based on how long she was missing.
Another picture in the book shows the cross and some detectives on the road and they just about could have reached over and touched it. Not far from the road at all.

I remember the thinking at the time was that he didn't get the level of attention he was after when SS body was not found so put JR where she was definitely noticeable.

Also it strikes me that he must have known the area as this was no thoroughfare or well known road.

Interesting.

When I met him in 2011, I thought I knew #2 from somewhere, but couldn't place it. Bugged me for months till something made me flash back to horse riding in that area in 94 and a commotion that was the result of a heap of different groups of riders who had reported seeing some guy walking around the common trail areas stark naked except for an akubra hat. The guy, who I also saw, had the same build and physique as 2, and they had similar faces, though we are talking nearly 20 years between events so I can't say for sure.

By the time that happened, I had already discovered that 2 was a huge nudism fan, and in particular that he is not one to confine his daring pastime to swanbourne beach, but anywhere really, especially if there is a group of people who might see him (ie rottnest ferry on a wine tour up river - full of posh retirees tasting wine, all guaranteed to stare in shocked indignation while the captain shakes his fist in frustration at 2 and tells them to avert their eyes), and so of course, that combined with my memory convinced me that it was him I had seen, but when I told 2 that I thought I had remembered where I had seen him before, he denied it.

A few months after that I dreamed about that day riding again, but in the dream I kept trying to see the guys face and could not. Later that day, I asked 2 again if it was him, saying I was pretty sure, but not saying anything about the dream. He got really angry so I didn't ask again, till about 6 months ago when I had the same dream. That time he answered with violence when he gave me his no answer.

Just another one of those many,many, coincidences I keep referring to...
 
Have also read that a gold car may have been used in a related csk murder years earlier. Same wounds? Anyone clued up on this?
 
WTF at Number 1.
As you know I'm also betting on SR but have remained open minded.
Could you please pm me info in the Princes Rd incident or post it. Have read about the cemetery incident.
Why do you think Droc's letter was taken down? Running investigation as a seperate one or to do with CSK? Is his letter still online anywhere?
Number 1: Imagine you were a serial killer and weren't familiar with anywhere rural just past the city limits. What would you do? Rather than dump a DB in suburbia you'd probably go and scout something out.

Princess Rd: chick in taxi. Guy hiding in back. Grabbed. She jumped out and broke ankle.

Droc: don't know. Could be a number of reasons. His social group are prolly not involved in CSK but they sure are suss.
 
Number 1: Imagine you were a serial killer and weren't familiar with anywhere rural just past the city limits. What would you do? Rather than dump a DB in suburbia you'd probably go and scout something out.

Princess Rd: chick in taxi. Guy hiding in back. Grabbed. She jumped out and broke ankle.

Droc: don't know. Could be a number of reasons. His social group are prolly not involved in CSK but they sure are suss.

Thanks Bartholemeus. I have read about the girl in the taxi. She was very lucky if you ask me, I mean how many taxi's were attacking woman? Think I'm gonna read the full Big footy thread again one last time over the next few days. I want to get more of an insight into Droc's state of mind and accusations/POI he offered, Michelle etc.
 
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