Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia

[Ausgirl]

You two need to keep your private war private..a lot of these posts are against TOS, just saying.

AQ, to be honest, I'm really not sure what to think. I've just been too busy with other stuff to be able spend any time exploring this for myself. Your clear explanation has helped me understand what you're saying a lot more, though. It's *possible* at least, that a killer could have a mind that worked in such a convoluted way. Multiple killers? Yeah, I doubt that.

But I'm in extreme doubt about a copycat, I'll say that up front. The cops had all these murders linked, for a reason - and no-one outside of a few members of that task force and the killer himself knows what that is.

 

[Sutton]

Sorry, double post.

 

[Sutton]

Hmmm, now lets see, if there were 3 victims and we take 347 to the power of 3 we get 41781923. That gives us two things, the postcode 4178 and the year 1923. 4178 is in Queensland. "Queen's Land". The Queen is a Royal card. The DNA evidence was "flushed" away by the rain. Royal + flush = poker. Poker = gambling. The killer was obviously a gambling man. Maybe even "The Gambler" himself!

RSBM. Hahahaha. Genius. Hopefully, Alwaysquestion can appreciate this as a light hearted tease about his or her theory. Because it's the funniest thing I've read in a week.
Alwaysquestion, your number theories might be spot on. Idk. I took 4 semesters of statistics in college, and a big part of my job involves analyzing figures, but I am baffled by posts 251-253. The killer would have to be mathematician to devise and follow this plan.
You seem to be the obvious expert in this case. LE could not be more familiar with the details than you are. I will try to re-read the first 300 posts (just scanned them before), but it is difficult to follow the numerology theory.
Maybe you could focus on other aspects of the murders, and ease the numbers in slowly. It's hard for newcomers to this board (me!) to delve right into advanced number theory as a serial killer game plan. Just a suggestion...
But like I said, you seem to be the go-to-person in the case. I am going to re-read. I hope you are willing to answer questions I might think of?

 

[alwaysquestion]

What spelling mistakes, Always Question? Commend? Look it up.

I was not referring to 'commend'. seems there may be attitude.

 

[alwaysquestion]

RSBM. Hahahaha. Genius. Hopefully, Alwaysquestion can appreciate this as a light hearted tease about his or her theory. Because it's the funniest thing I've read in a week.
Alwaysquestion, your number theories might be spot on. Idk. I took 4 semesters of statistics in college, and a big part of my job involves analyzing figures, but I am baffled by posts 251-253. The killer would have to be mathematician to devise and follow this plan.
You seem to be the obvious expert in this case. LE could not be more familiar with the details than you are. I will try to re-read the first 300 posts (just scanned them before), but it is difficult to follow the numerology theory.
Maybe you could focus on other aspects of the murders, and ease the numbers in slowly. It's hard for newcomers to this board (me!) to delve right into advanced number theory as a serial killer game plan. Just a suggestion...
But like I said, you seem to be the go-to-person in the case. I am going to re-read. I hope you are willing to answer questions I might think of?

I didn't take it as a light-hearted tease at all in fact. I took it as pure and utter sarcasm just like the post regarding the dog proverbial.

What other aspects would you consider appropriate Sutton? Date abducted, where placed, degree placed, degree to what, number of days between abductions, where placed relative to previous victim, where placed relative to abduction point, distance between victims, distance from abduction point, birthday relative to previous victim and relative to future victim, when (date)located, days after story break re date located to next victim (yes that is important). You do know that the girls were taken in birthday order don't you? I know the dumpsite location has nothing to do with 347 and 167; the distances are linked to other dates.

A copycat took over after Dixie was sent marching through immigration because that copycat has used the 347 and 167 not knowing how it was figured out in the 1st place but trying to make himself famous by being linked to the Claremont murders. The first time the 347 and 167 degree link was blogged openly I have now been informed to be in 2006.

One girl (1st victim in this equation) still missing abducted on 29/7/1999 and another girl murdered on 24-25/1/2000 are placed at 347 and 167 degrees apart. The 1st victim's birthday is day 334. 167 + 167 = 334. 334 - 347 = 13. 13 + 180 = 193 + 167 = 360.

The murder victim was found burned to death (believed to have been alive at the time of ignition) in her vehicle and she had been located at 56/236 degrees to something of interest to someone. There is an equation that can be done (relative to the location of the burned vehicle) that I will not reveal here but it leads to Sarah McMahon's birthday day 206. 206 - 365 = 159 which is the kilometers between 1st victim on day 210 and 2nd victim 24/1 at 347/167 degrees.

236..lets see...2 = B, 3 = C, 6 = F that is BCF which is a type of fire extinguisher - foam - which was used to extinguish the fire.

1st victim abducted on day 210 - 365 = 156 days (including last day). Add girl found burned to death on 24/1 = 180. Can you see a pattern. 347 - 167 = 180! They are 159kms apart. 2nd Claremont victim meet date was day 159 in normal year. We have a copycat.

Sarah McMahon's vehicle was found at 57/237 degrees to the same point of interest. Her vehicle was found on the birthday of the 3rd Claremont victim which is day 324. 57 - 326 = 267 Dixie's birthday. Sarah had quit uni on the anniversary of Claremont 1st victim's birthday. We know the police have a strong suspect but he was not available at the time of the Claremont girls. This guy also had a pattern.

Here is a cryptic clue "she is where it snows at christmas time". I know what the answer is; see how you go.

 

[alwaysquestion]

RSBM. Hahahaha. Genius. Hopefully, Alwaysquestion can appreciate this as a light hearted tease about his or her theory. Because it's the funniest thing I've read in a week.
Alwaysquestion, your number theories might be spot on. Idk. I took 4 semesters of statistics in college, and a big part of my job involves analyzing figures, but I am baffled by posts 251-253. The killer would have to be mathematician to devise and follow this plan.
You seem to be the obvious expert in this case. LE could not be more familiar with the details than you are. I will try to re-read the first 300 posts (just scanned them before), but it is difficult to follow the numerology theory.
Maybe you could focus on other aspects of the murders, and ease the numbers in slowly. It's hard for newcomers to this board (me!) to delve right into advanced number theory as a serial killer game plan. Just a suggestion...
But like I said, you seem to be the go-to-person in the case. I am going to re-read. I hope you are willing to answer questions I might think of?

I didn't take it as a light-hearted tease at all in fact. I took it as pure and utter sarcasm just like the post regarding the dog proverbial.

What other aspects would you consider appropriate Sutton? Date abducted, where placed, degree placed, degree to what, number of days between abductions, where placed relative to previous victim, where placed relative to abduction point, distance between victims, distance from abduction point, birthday relative to previous victim and relative to future victim, when (date)located, days after story break re date located to next victim (yes that is important). You do know that the girls were taken in birthday order don't you? I know the dumpsite location has nothing to do with 347 and 167; the distances are linked to other dates.

A copycat took over after Dixie was sent marching through immigration because that copycat has used the 347 and 167 not knowing how it was figured out in the 1st place but trying to make himself famous by being linked to the Claremont murders. The first time the 347 and 167 degree link was blogged openly I have now been informed to be in 2006.

One girl (1st victim in this equation) still missing abducted on 29/7/1999 and another girl murdered on 24-25/1/2000 are placed at 347 and 167 degrees apart. The 1st victim's birthday is day 334. 167 + 167 = 334. 334 - 347 = 13. 13 + 180 = 193 + 167 = 360.

The murder victim was found burned to death (believed to have been alive at the time of ignition) in her vehicle and she had been located at 56/236 degrees to something of interest to someone. There is an equation that can be done (relative to the location of the burned vehicle) that I will not reveal here but it leads to Sarah McMahon's birthday day 206. 206 - 365 = 159 which is the kilometers between 1st victim on day 210 and 2nd victim 24/1 at 347/167 degrees.

236..lets see...2 = B, 3 = C, 6 = F that is BCF which is a type of fire extinguisher - foam - which was used to extinguish the fire.

1st victim abducted on day 210 - 365 = 156 days (including last day). Add girl found burned to death on 24/1 = 180. Can you see a pattern. 347 - 167 = 180! They are 159kms apart. 2nd Claremont victim meet date was day 159 in normal year. We have a copycat.

Sarah McMahon's vehicle was found at 57/237 degrees to the same point of interest. Her vehicle was found on the birthday of the 3rd Claremont victim which is day 324. 57 - 326 = 267 Dixie's birthday. Sarah had quit uni on the anniversary of Claremont 1st victim's birthday. We know the police have a strong suspect but he was not available at the time of the Claremont girls. This guy also had a pattern.

Here is a cryptic clue "she is where it snows at christmas time". I know what the answer is; see how you go.

 

[Sutton]

I didn't take it as a light-hearted tease at all in fact. I took it as pure and utter sarcasm just like the post regarding the dog proverbial.

What other aspects would you consider appropriate Sutton? Date abducted, where placed, degree placed, degree to what, number of days between abductions, where placed relative to previous victim, where placed relative to abduction point, distance between victims, distance from abduction point, birthday relative to previous victim and relative to future victim, when (date)located, days after story break re date located to next victim (yes that is important). You do know that the girls were taken in birthday order don't you? I know the dumpsite location has nothing to do with 347 and 167; the distances are linked to other dates.

A copycat took over after Dixie was sent marching through immigration because that copycat has used the 347 and 167 not knowing how it was figured out in the 1st place but trying to make himself famous by being linked to the Claremont murders. The first time the 347 and 167 degree link was blogged openly I have now been informed to be in 2006.

One girl (1st victim in this equation) still missing abducted on 29/7/1999 and another girl murdered on 24-25/1/2000 are placed at 347 and 167 degrees apart. The 1st victim's birthday is day 334. 167 + 167 = 334. 334 - 347 = 13. 13 + 180 = 193 + 167 = 360.

The murder victim was found burned to death (believed to have been alive at the time of ignition) in her vehicle and she had been located at 56/236 degrees to something of interest to someone. There is an equation that can be done (relative to the location of the burned vehicle) that I will not reveal here but it leads to Sarah McMahon's birthday day 206. 206 - 365 = 159 which is the kilometers between 1st victim on day 210 and 2nd victim 24/1 at 347/167 degrees.

236..lets see...2 = B, 3 = C, 6 = F that is BCF which is a type of fire extinguisher - foam - which was used to extinguish the fire.

1st victim abducted on day 210 - 365 = 156 days (including last day). Add girl found burned to death on 24/1 = 180. Can you see a pattern. 347 - 167 = 180! They are 159kms apart. 2nd Claremont victim meet date was day 159 in normal year. We have a copycat.

Sarah McMahon's vehicle was found at 57/237 degrees to the same point of interest. Her vehicle was found on the birthday of the 3rd Claremont victim which is day 324. 57 - 326 = 267 Dixie's birthday. Sarah had quit uni on the anniversary of Claremont 1st victim's birthday. We know the police have a strong suspect but he was not available at the time of the Claremont girls. This guy also had a pattern.

Here is a cryptic clue "she is where it snows at christmas time". I know what the answer is; see how you go.

I am going to say this as nicely and as clearly as possible. YOU are alienating anyone who might express interest in the case.
The number sequences exist. Ignore them. They are static. Do not listen. Focus on other aspects.

 

[Shadowboxer]

I don't think it's the suspect at all. In fact i'm quite sure of it.

 

[alwaysquestion]

I am going to say this as nicely and as clearly as possible. YOU are alienating anyone who might express interest in the case.
The number sequences exist. Ignore them. They are static. Do not listen. Focus on other aspects.

ok point me to a discussion here that is relative and I dont mean saints days and colours of flags. where is there a discussion about motive? where is there a discussion about pattern? where is there a discussion about anything relative. given ausgirl is thanking you for your comment she can also answer my question posed to you.

 

[Parkie]

347 from the fire carpark does take you on an interesting heading.

 

[Ausgirl]

ok point me to a discussion here that is relative and I dont mean saints days and colours of flags. where is there a discussion about motive? where is there a discussion about pattern? where is there a discussion about anything relative. given ausgirl is thanking you for your comment she can also answer my question posed to you.

Oh can I.

 

[Parkie]

Your 180 degrees, well 3 (victims) into that is 60 degs. Where does 60 degs from the Conti get you? well 60.45 degrees.

 

[Ausgirl]

IMO, motive was sadistic torture and murder. Not sure about rape, but sexual gratification from the violence is the motive. That's a no-brainer.

Pattern? He has a 'type' that he hunted for (young, fair, pretty - not hard to find in any nightclub in Aus), until he found one that fit and was able to be abducted. Most men with a 'type' will vary from it, if the need to kill is strong enough. That's a fact.

Then there's the mystery of Jane's behaviour prior to her abduction, which strongly suggests his hunting pattern might not have simply been driving around looking for a girl on her own, in every case. He might have been hunting from inside the pubs on occasion.

Why'd he stop? Well, why do other killers stop? They go to jail, they get married, they die, they move. In this case, we can only speculate. They also have been known to change MO to evade detection.

I do not think these were his first or only crimes. There's other victims -- somewhere.

 

[Ausgirl]

It's interesting to note that there's other clusters of unsolved murders around the country:

- 6 murders in Tynong north, VIC, 1980 (age group b/w 13 - 78, possibly two distinct killers or a team with separate victim types)
- Cluster of 4 in Katoomba, 1992-2003 (all of similar age, 20's)
- Cluster of 3 hitchhikers around the NSW/QLD border, 1996-97 (all young).

And also other murdered/missing women around Perth in that era who do and don't match the 'type' and MO. Like Lisa Brown.


Not saying any are linked to Claremont. But they're out there. They started killing, they stopped killing (in that cluster). They have not been caught.

It's a pretty sobering thought. And it's very possible the Claremont killer did move on. And maybe changed his MO, as many killers have been known to do. I don't think he'd change his preference much, that sort of thing tends to surface as part of the motive. His victim pool might age as he ages, that happens, or it might stay the same if it's a particular fixation. The brutal nature of his crimes won't change much either.

I also don't think he'd easily give up the thrill of abducting 'nice' girls in public areas. I think he got off on that, big time.

 

[Mel 1303]

I thought I made it perfectly clear but obviously you haven't read my posts in full.

So to answer the questions posed by Mel and so that you can understand my reply Ausgirl:

If Jane had not waited for him, he would have taken another girl on that night. The night is the important axis in the equation not the victim. After abduction it is the victim's birthday that is used.

To make it even more clearer. He did not choose the victims because he knew their birthdays beforehand. He chose his victims because his strike night was worked out by a previous victim's birthday. That birthday was then used to strike, then the victim that was abducted, who birthday was used to work out where she was dumped, then her birthday was used plot his next strike night.

Don't complicate things and read into things that weren't said.

This will get your minds working in a different direction for sure and I sincerely hope you can wrap your brains around some figures because it is all about the figures.



Sarah's birthday in normal year is day 255. Ciara's is day 324. 255 - 324 = 69. Jane's is day 285 - from Sarah = 30. Girls were taken in birthdate order starting with Sarah/Jane/Ciara. Here's something interesting. Jane's birthday normal year day 285 - 365 = 80 + 267= 347.


And so it goes on.... and on and on and on. I believe I am onto something huge but then again is this all a figment of I imagination and I have been totally wasting my time? I don't believe so. Most of this data has been passed to investigators.

I didn't take it as a light-hearted tease at all in fact. I took it as pure and utter sarcasm just like the post regarding the dog proverbial.

What other aspects would you consider appropriate Sutton? Date abducted, where placed, degree placed, degree to what, number of days between abductions, where placed relative to previous victim, where placed relative to abduction point, distance between victims, distance from abduction point, birthday relative to previous victim and relative to future victim, when (date)located, days after story break re date located to next victim (yes that is important). You do know that the girls were taken in birthday order don't you? I know the dumpsite location has nothing to do with 347 and 167; the distances are linked to other dates.




Here is a cryptic clue "she is where it snows at christmas time". I know what the answer is; see how you go.

Respectfully snipped and bolded by me.
Sorry if I have caused offense by not reading your posts well enough, but with all due respect- they are not easy to read. You stated that it was not the girls that were initially important, but the date. Their birthdate became important after the date. You have stated a number of times since that the girls were taken in birthdate order. So I am confused as to the importance of the birthdate in your theory. If the birthdate is important enough that the girls were taken in birthday order, then surely we are looking at specifically targeted victims?

I am not sure about the purpose of your cryptic clue????

 

[Ausgirl]

236..lets see...2 = B, 3 = C, 6 = F that is BCF which is a type of fire extinguisher - foam - which was used to extinguish the fire.

You cannot be serious. This is right up there with green paint number codes.

1st victim abducted on day 210 - 365 = 156 days (including last day). Add girl found burned to death on 24/1 = 180. Can you see a pattern. 347 - 167 = 180! They are 159kms apart. 2nd Claremont victim meet date was day 159 in normal year. We have a copycat.

This makes no sense.

Sarah had quit uni on the anniversary of Claremont 1st victim's birthday.

Oh good grief.

Here is a cryptic clue "she is where it snows at christmas time". I know what the answer is; see how you go.

Um - no. Not playing any silly games here, sorry.

 

[Fence Sitter]

The bigfooty forum is quite the read. I watched the CIA episode and wondered why Janes male friend appeared on there. He was the martial arts suspect was he not? Perhaps an intentional act by investigators???

Id be interested in hearing peoples thought on all of the POI.
Martial Arts expert
Dixie
Public servant
The duo ross and weygers

Where there any more im not aware of? Did i see mention of a police officer?

Im requoting myself here because this thread seems to have moved to solely focus on number theories which quite honestly i cant understand and it seems many others cannot either. Im not looking for a debate on those theories im just trying to get some more WSers opinions, facts and general 'vibes' they get from various POI. Id be appreciative if my queries above were answered.

 

[Aberline_1979]

I didn't take it as a light-hearted tease at all in fact. I took it as pure and utter sarcasm just like the post regarding the dog proverbial.

That's because your "theories" deserve about that much respect. Clearly, my "Kenny Rogers did it" theory hit a raw nerve, huh?

Quote:
"One girl (1st victim in this equation) still missing abducted on 29/7/1999 and another girl murdered on 24-25/1/2000 are placed at 347 and 167 degrees apart. The 1st victim's birthday is day 334. 167 + 167 = 334. 334 - 347 = 13. 13 + 180 = 193 + 167 = 360."

I mean, what kind of nonsense is that? Who do you think this guy actually is, some kind of demented Geometry teacher? Or the Sea Captain from the Simpsons? Or one of the Goonies?

Clearly, when we do finally locate the remains of Sarah Spiers we're also likely to find some buried treasure and a pirate ship...yes?

 

[Aberline_1979]

Im requoting myself here because this thread seems to have moved to solely focus on number theories which quite honestly i cant understand and it seems many others cannot either.

You're not wrong. There was a similar thread over at the Bigfooty discussion forums on the Claremont Serial Killer, but it has recently run into problems with the tinfoil hat / numerology brigade as well. Don't get me started.

Im not looking for a debate on those theories im just trying to get some more WSers opinions, facts and general 'vibes' they get from various POI. Id be appreciative if my queries above were answered.

There are still some sane contributors on these boards. I try to log in every now and then just to see if there are any updates...but it's only an occasional thing, at least for now.

Thing will of course pick up a lot whenever there's actual news stories relating to the CSK.

As for the "martial arts guy" on the CIA episode...I have certainly been intrigued. Obviously, he didn't really add much to the discussion about the women, so it's a bit "strange" why they didn't edit him out of the program. Unless of course the police might have thought it would be helpful to get his image out there before a wide audience.

If you check his background (which required some creative Google searching, e.g. for financial market dealings, etc) you can see that he is definitely wealthy, definitely of English descent (e.g. his first name is a very English name), and definitely a martial arts practitioner/expert. One concern, however, is that in photos of him on FB or elsewhere taken from aroung 1996/1997 he doesn't quite appear to match the "Mystyery Man" in appearance, or possibly in height. Our martial arts expert appears to be a bit shorter, and his hair at the time appears to be of a different style. However, it is HARD to judge these things, and I'm not certain...I'm just leaning that way slightly (re: his physical appearance at the time not matching Mystery Man's).

But yeah...if the police wanted to try and "jog" the public's memory, then the tactic of getting "Martial Arts Man" on the CIA episode, and then describing the "well-educated English martial artist" key suspect would be an EXCELLENT idea!

 

[they'll get you]

It's the first time I've looked at this thread & I think I've stepped into something very unpleasant. I'll go wipe my feet and promise myself I won't venture onto this path again.

I'd have more fun vacuuming. :sweep: