Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia

[billywhizz]

Paul Ferguson was walking around in the bush

Reporter: So you think this is where Sarah's body is?
PF: Yes

??

 

[luckyseven]

Father will never give up search for Sarah Spiers
Monday June 1, 2015 MYT 6:44:06 AM

snipped

It was at 2am on a Sunday morning shortly after Sarah went missing. The caller asked him, "Are you Sarah's father?"

Don won't give details of what the man said but he still believes it wasn't a hoax.

"I would like them to somehow get in touch with me and verify what they had to say because that has haunted me for 19 years," he said.

While the bodies of the Claremont killer's other two victims - Jane and Ciara Glennon - have been found, Sarah is still missing.

"I hope one day we will be able to do something for Sarah," Don said.

Adam Rimmer says enough time has passed that someone could be prompted to come forward with new evidence.

 

[Alice Bernadette]

Sarah Spiers' father said he will never give up looking for her. There is also a picture in here of Jane Rimmer which I've never seen before.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/28295405/father-will-never-give-up-search-for-sarah-spiers/

"Now, he still sometimes drives past the spot in Wellard where Jane Rimmer's body was found and where police believe Sarah still lies." I didn't realise police believe Sarah might be buried in the same place as where Jane was found.

 

[Jezz]

Not to get too 'hocus pocus' but in the show last night that picture of Jane really affected me. Her eyes just seemed to pierce into my soul and it's the same with this picture. Like she is as desperate for this guy to get caught as everyone else.

I don't think there was too much that was revolutionary in the show last night. If nothing else it just builds the compelling case for an inquest into macro and capon. There needs to be some accountability here as well as a fresh set of eyes.

 

[AngelJoan]

The audio clip was interesting. Lots of armchair detectives and they mention the blogs.

Shadowboxer, I still can't find this audio clip. Please could you provide a link?

 

[Deleted member 153673]

I didn't see the show last night: any new revelations or developments of note?

 

[AngelJoan]

I didn't see the show last night: any new revelations or developments of note?

I certainly think so but I seem to be alone in that regard.

 

[Sutton]

I certainly think so but I seem to be alone in that regard.

Can you give us a review of the new details? I am in the U.S., and don't know if I can access the show anywhere.

 

[PavoAustralis]

I didn't learn anything new but I did get confirmation on a couple of things I wasn't sure about - like where those guys at the bus stop were; which bus stop exactly. I thought I knew, then I'd second guess myself.

I'm intrigued about the timing. If it was 20 years since SS vanished, I could understand it...rounded number...19 seems a bit random. Why now? Has he taunted the police? Has their suspect just been released from prison?

Something else has only just popped into my head: the CCTV footage of JR. They mentioned it almost in passing. There was just one query of "why was it released 12 years later" and they showed a couple of seconds of it, but not the bit with Mystery Man, and they didn't mention him. Why? Do they know who he is now? Do they want him to think they've given up on that angle, or have they actually given up on it?

Ok, questions and suppositions aside, the CCTV footage of Jane appears to have been cut by the police. On the Crime Investigation Australia video, they say "28 seconds later, Jane has gone" as though there's a gap between cameras changing...only there shouldn't have been.

Go to the video: [video=youtube;nNNF1E3mg3c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNNF1E3mg3c[/video]

Skip to about 39:10 minutes in to the doco, and then watch the timer at the top of the footage screen. You can see it ticking over from about 00:03:58. On it goes, 00:03:59, 00:04:00, 01, 02...Steve Liebmann says something like "our view is about to change" and at 00:04:09 the view jumps to the other camera. It's a bit dark but you can see that the timer kept going, 00:04:10, 11, 12, 13...you can tell by the people milling around outside, too. There's a man in a dark shirt who walks out of the hotel. That's proof that the cameras didn't miss any time; they weren't like those ones which take still shots every few seconds. Each camera picked up where the last left off. So why, then, is there a gap from 00:04:20 to 00:04:50, the one that Steve says is "28 seconds" ? Someone on this thread, and perhaps the Big Footy thread also, mentioned that he'd seen things in the "original" footage which then suddenly vanished after he mentioned them to the police.

 

[PavoAustralis]

I certainly think so but I seem to be alone in that regard.

I'd be interested to know what you think is new, too

 

[AngelJoan]

I also find it frustrating that when it is suggested there might be a link between the CSK and various other murders (often IMO reasonable connections to make) are simply dismissed outright because the victim doesn't fit the profile.

Yes, some have a "type", but some of these people are so screwed up that it is more that they have a type of "act" rather than a type of "victim" or even the "nature" of various acts (ie:violent abduction, violent rape, violent murder), and the only thing that could be truly said about them s that they are, more than usually, disturbed sadomasochists. Sex/ age/ social status/ locality / attractiveness/ hair\eye colour etc... etc... makes zero difference to such people.

More disturbingly, some of these don't fit either one of the black and white stereo types: quiet, psychopathic, detail driven, obsessive rapist/killer vs the loud, impulsive, opportunistic rapist / murderer. Believe it or not, many appear to be both!

OK so how do I know all this? Speculation? Hearsay? Research?

How about first hand experience?

Example: I have now been raped by TWO (yes 2) "homophobic" bisexual (paradox I know) pedophiles.

Pedophiles? Must have happened when I was a child? No. Age 27 and age 36. (Had experiences as a child too, though :"-( different guys/country)

Well then they weren't pedophiles? My daughter and the police would disagree.

Well then they must have been heterosexual? One would think, but no (the rampant homophobia should have warned me), and again, my son and the police would disagree. ( as does the 180 GB worth of gay *advertiser censored* in one's possession).

Well maybe they like young / attractive/ vulnerable / submissive victims. Mpffff... possible, but the words of one: "I would &^%$ a snake with a festered &^$&$" leads me to think there is no one type/ motive/ method/ class etccc.

Well, people like that would fit the out of control predator with emotional issues and a history of explosive violence, not a premeditating, cool headed, quiet killer? Mmmmm, one would think yes OR no, but actually it is more like yes and no....

Explanation: ; if/when it comes out that they used violence to achieve this or that or the other, it is often attributed to explosive rage etc... and indeed some of these perpetrators do appear to have difficulties controlling violent outbursts, but the multi-type/ method/ motive type person can seem quite the paradox in this regard: if such violence were beyond their control, it would be consistently present in similar circumstances. It would not make any difference who was present when who said what / why / where. They don't bash jane for saying ABC in private and then smile with benign tolerance when sally (or jane) says ABC in front of bill and bob. Why is this? Because violent psychopaths do not have issues with controlling their anger, they use their anger to control. "If you can't f%^& it, kill it!" is not an impulse for these people, it is a philosophy and a personal policy.

Everything about these individuals is contrary and contradictory, other than their narcissism and evil nature.

And the reality of their existence and the tragic results of their crimes.

The conspiracy is not in the theory, it is in the cover up!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sons-lock-UK-s-paedophiles.html#ixzz3bm13Tv00

 

[AngelJoan]

I'd be interested to know what you think is new, too

I think the cryptic words of PF "What I can tell you is that the more people involved in the crime, the more chances of getting caught," he says.

"Relationships change. Friendships break down. Circumstances change. If someone has some information that can lift one person above the others, ring Crime Stoppers."

and the concerns raised by CB and his observations: "it was a training ground for serial killers" along with the startling statistics and numbers related to his Operation,
certainly speak volumes especially if considered in relation to my and various other individuals' suspicions / theories of multiple killers and possible corruption / conspiracy cover-up....

 

[Bartholemeus]

Can you give us a review of the new details? I am in the U.S., and don't know if I can access the show anywhere.

Can you expand on this.

What I already knew
- The police pulled over a guy with a line boot and abduction kit
- The police were fixated on LW (good to hear some one actually say they witnessed it though)

What I learned
- This info is probably on BF, but it seems that the Higate incident happened in approx 2002/3? Does that seem correct?
- I never knew this car was an ex cop car, nor that he did some taxi training

What I think

I doubt this is our guy. I wonder if it could have been Donald Morey (the prime suspect for Sarah McMahon)? And I think this person is more likely the one who took Lisa Brown in 1998 in the same area.

Of course it is possible that the CSK changed MO and hunting area. The police recently mentioned they think the abductions were blitz attacks (I highly doubt this) but this does lend itself to maybe this guy being the guy.

 

[AngelJoan]

Yes, some have a "type", but some of these people are so screwed up that it is more that they have a type of "act" rather than a type of "victim" or even the "nature" of various acts (ie:violent abduction, violent rape, violent murder), and the only thing that could be truly said about them s that they are, more than usually, disturbed sadomasochists. Sex/ age/ social status/ locality / attractiveness/ hair\eye colour etc... etc... makes zero difference to such people.

That is not to say they don't target/ obsess over certain individuals; what i am saying is that assumptions should never be made, nor outrageous possibilities ignored solely because of their improbability.

It has been my experience that trying to predict the behavior / identity and / or motives of people such as these is dangerous, because we (the people trying to do the predicting) are trying to ascertain things about people we are unable to relate to based on others' experiences of others' behavior, of which, most is beyond the realms of the average person's experiences.

We cannot discount anything.

The same person could easily do the same thing twice to completely different people and for completely different reasons. We cannot assume anything about the person responsible for the disappearances of the Claremont girls, and therefore should not assume to know what should / shouldn't be considered.

Certainly seems to be enough hinting and innuendos in certain directions for long enough though, and last night's program certainly did little to dispel such rumours...

 

[PavoAustralis]

What I learned
- This info is probably on BF, but it seems that the Higate incident happened in approx 2002/3? Does that seem correct?
- I never knew this car was an ex cop car, nor that he did some taxi training

From Debi Marshall's book, Operation Bounty started in August 2000 and lasted at least two years, so Highgate Guy would have been spotted between 2000-2002.

I agree with you re: Lisa Brown.

 

[AngelJoan]

I was hoping this would be solved soon, but I'm starting to think that will not happen in my lifetime.

Sadly, i think the way the world is going, this kind of thing will one day just be another type of atrocity among many, all of which will have simply become the norm...

 

[JMC44]

The problem with this case is that completely antithetical theories are almost equally plausible. I've never settled on one.

The theories associated with the mayor (PW) and his taxi driver friend (SR) are unsettling. SR owned a taxi. He admitted having Sarah Spiers in it the night before she went missing. His admission could be interpreted as just innocently explaining a coincidence. However, it could also be interpreted as him trying to cover up is involvement by having an explanation for Spiers' DNA in his taxi if any was later found. As has been mentioned before, one could easily envisage a young woman entering SR's taxi only for PW to be hiding in the back, before appearing and subduing the women (it has been noted by the police that they believe the victims were killed very soon after they entered the car that took them). Credence to this theory is enhanced when one considers that recently a male came out and said that he saw a taxi leaving the area where Ciara Glennon was found. Two occupants were observed in the taxi, which had its headlights off. The involvement of a taxi also explains why the young women entered the vehicles voluntarily.

<modsnip>

 

[JMC44]

I'm hoping that the renewed media attention in the case, and the recent declaration in an article this year that the WA Police were 'promising progress' is on account of new potential in DNA testing that will be able to analyse partial and incomplete DNA evidence that has previously been too hard to analyse. I.e. I hope the attention is based on something tangible.

 

[perthite]

<modsnip>

He's probably the only other credible POI if the above is true. The only issue I have is how did he get CG into a car - this is a 27 year old lawyer - granted alcohol may have been a factor but unless she knew the bloke I can't see that happening.

If the guys at the bus stop could have given police a proper vehicle description it makes you wonder if they'd have caught their man. Maybe this car is insignificant though, perhaps she was taken down a side street.

<modsnip>

 

[perthite]

Ok, questions and suppositions aside, the CCTV footage of Jane appears to have been cut by the police. On the Crime Investigation Australia video, they say "28 seconds later, Jane has gone" as though there's a gap between cameras changing...only there shouldn't have been.

The cameras were PTZ's that we're set to move at certain intervals. So that camera that captures MM and JR eventually pans away and returns - by that time she has left. I assume this is what you're querying?

I don't think they covered the footage in this episode because they probably don't have anything to add without the police being involved. The general consensus seems to be that MM is not relevant to the case anyway.