Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia

[catswhiskers]

Can you expand on this.

What I already knew
- The police pulled over a guy with a line boot and abduction kit
- The police were fixated on LW (good to hear some one actually say they witnessed it though)

What I learned
- This info is probably on BF, but it seems that the Higate incident happened in approx 2002/3? Does that seem correct?
- I never knew this car was an ex cop car, nor that he did some taxi training

What I think

I doubt this is our guy. I wonder if it could have been Donald Morey (the prime suspect for Sarah McMahon)? And I think this person is more likely the one who took Lisa Brown in 1998 in the same area.

Of course it is possible that the CSK changed MO and hunting area. The police recently mentioned they think the abductions were blitz attacks (I highly doubt this) but this does lend itself to maybe this guy being the guy.

Hey Bartholemeus - was the info about the police who searched the car with the plastic lined boot and assorted sinister paraphernalia previously discussed in the media? The officer in question seemed justifiably disgusted that the report about that guy and his very suspicious car wasn't looked into at all - either in relation to the CSK case or any other.
Anyway I'm wondering if there is any chance he could have been ML - Estelle Blackburn's ex? I've only recently watched the Australian Story episode were she claims that his car boot was also lined with plastic at some point, plus I think she had worked out that the dates of the 3 cases seemed to coincide with those when there had been some dramas with ML (or something like that) and he had been in some sort of rage over their relationship? As I was watching it I know it all seemed to fit - though I think I have read (rather cynical) posts by others implying that making some sort of link to the CSK was also potentially good for book sales.
Has ML been ever been considered a suspect outside of that Australian Story episode?

 

[catswhiskers]

Sarah Spiers' father said he will never give up looking for her. There is also a picture in here of Jane Rimmer which I've never seen before.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/28295405/father-will-never-give-up-search-for-sarah-spiers/

"Now, he still sometimes drives past the spot in Wellard where Jane Rimmer's body was found and where police believe Sarah still lies." I didn't realise police believe Sarah might be buried in the same place as where Jane was found.

Jane's bright-eyed smile in this pic seems similar to the expression she had on her face when greeting 'mystery man' on the CIA CCTV footage. I felt he was someone she knew somehow.

 

[billywhizz]

Given the need for a 40km drive north or south of Claremont.. does anyone think the CSK would be driving a vehicle that didn't have an enclosed boot? Would they risk it in a wagon with visibility into car?

CSK lives local because they went same distance north and south. What a dumbass.

 

[kemo]

A lot of interesting stuff coming out. Might there be a break in the works?

To me, it seems most likely all three women thought they were entering a taxi. The perpetrator was either a legitimate taxi driver with a real taxi, an illegal (gypsy) driver who had a vehicle decked out to look like a licensed taxi who did normally prowl the streets looking for fares, or someone who disguised his vehicle to resemble a taxi only on nights he was on the prowl. Otherwise he would have no links to the taxi industry.

The guys in the car who reported seeing a vehicle stop for SS and the Boys at the bus stop who reported seeing CG on Stirling Hwy did not recognize the vehicles as taxis but it would seem that the women did. We can not be certain of what they saw (if anything) but their sightings seem reasonably credible. The feature that distinguishes a taxi pretty much world wide is the "TAXI" bubble on top. Apparently this was routine in the Perth area but were there some taxis without the bubble that otherwise functions as taxis (licensed or unlicensed)? It would be fairly easy to obtain a detachable sign that could be installed on the doors of car that would have the word "taxi" and any other trademark or lettering that would allow it to pass. The taxi bubble would be harder and more expensive to get.

The CIA documentary implied that there was a big crackdown on unlicensed taxis during the investigation and I suspect that all of those drivers were treated as potential serial killers.

My experience has been that the more suspects there are, the less likely any of them are the perp. Also, sometimes folks who are not involved in a high profile crime will make suspicious or incriminating statements in order to make themselves suspects. They can receive a lot of attention and have a little fun all the while figuring they are in no danger of arrest because there will never be real evidence against them. They can cause a lot of disruption and wasted resources in an investigation.

It is probable that our guy has been looked at by the police and may be one of the official POI's. It is unlikely he would just "break" after almost 20 years but advancing technology my change the situation. Trace DNA can now be identified in case where it could not have been before. We may yet find out.

 

[Shadowboxer]

Shadowboxer, I still can't find this audio clip. Please could you provide a link?

Seems it's been taken down. Was on the link posted.

 

[Shadowboxer]

I didn't learn anything new but I did get confirmation on a couple of things I wasn't sure about - like where those guys at the bus stop were; which bus stop exactly. I thought I knew, then I'd second guess myself.

I'm intrigued about the timing. If it was 20 years since SS vanished, I could understand it...rounded number...19 seems a bit random. Why now? Has he taunted the police? Has their suspect just been released from prison?

Something else has only just popped into my head: the CCTV footage of JR. They mentioned it almost in passing. There was just one query of "why was it released 12 years later" and they showed a couple of seconds of it, but not the bit with Mystery Man, and they didn't mention him. Why? Do they know who he is now? Do they want him to think they've given up on that angle, or have they actually given up on it?

Ok, questions and suppositions aside, the CCTV footage of Jane appears to have been cut by the police. On the Crime Investigation Australia video, they say "28 seconds later, Jane has gone" as though there's a gap between cameras changing...only there shouldn't have been.

Go to the video: [video=youtube;nNNF1E3mg3c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNNF1E3mg3c[/video]

Skip to about 39:10 minutes in to the doco, and then watch the timer at the top of the footage screen. You can see it ticking over from about 00:03:58. On it goes, 00:03:59, 00:04:00, 01, 02...Steve Liebmann says something like "our view is about to change" and at 00:04:09 the view jumps to the other camera. It's a bit dark but you can see that the timer kept going, 00:04:10, 11, 12, 13...you can tell by the people milling around outside, too. There's a man in a dark shirt who walks out of the hotel. That's proof that the cameras didn't miss any time; they weren't like those ones which take still shots every few seconds. Each camera picked up where the last left off. So why, then, is there a gap from 00:04:20 to 00:04:50, the one that Steve says is "28 seconds" ? Someone on this thread, and perhaps the Big Footy thread also, mentioned that he'd seen things in the "original" footage which then suddenly vanished after he mentioned them to the police.

Yes I was the original poster on Perth Now that seen the footage In which I mentioned JR standing at the taxi rank only to have another group join her. You seen the lights of the car come forward and someone put their hand out. The group then stepforward only to be sent backward by the car and JR steps forward to the vehicle. As soon as I pointed this out, the next morning the footage was gone and the police had claimed to have released the wrong footage but for other reasons. That footage exists. Someone on here has shown me similar footage although the time stamps in it seem to have been doctored. All this work to keep this part of the footage secret tells me it is well known how the girls got into the cars. Add it up. I then went and bought Debbie Marshalls book and started looking into the case myself as at the time of the murders my sister lived in Two Rocks up past Pippindinny and told me what someone had told her bout what happened to the girls. I believe one of the two things must have been correct cause when mentioned I found myself a POI for a short while until they worked out it couldn’t have been me. I would have been 24 and Living in Brisbane with a 3 year old Daughter.
Each time the police have released something like this they have had certain things in place to profile bloggers and those that have anything to offer that points to the truth. I have personally seen this with my own eyes. They have as said tried to cover every angle in catching this killer and fully believe that he would be involved in the discussion or at least reading the threads about it. Just like AngelJoan asking about the audio that was taken down as nearly as fast as it was put up. Perhaps they didn’t like the fact that bloggers were mentioned as it would warn off the one person they wanted to get involved.
The girls in my opinion all entered what they thought was a Taxi. The reason I lean towards SR was his statement he had SS in his car the night before she went missing and the fact he had a stun gun. After reading DM’s book it is my belief as much from the few images in the book as what was written that the girls were killed close to the dump site but moved far enough from where they were killed so as to try and hide the actual kill site from being profiled.

 

[PavoAustralis]

See my edit above - I think we can link them to UWA at the same time.

Can't confirm why (for my own security), but perthite is correct.

 

[billywhizz]

http://www.newscientist.com/article...hot-recreates-faces-from-nothing-but-dna.html

Not if, but when, claim researchers who have developed a method for determining how our genes influence facial shape.

 

[billywhizz]

From Sunday Night (TV show) facebook

Following our show on Sunday the WA opposition leader has promised an inquiry into the Claremont killings.

Thought this might happen

 

[billywhizz]

Also this is apparently why Ferguson was removed. Was in the BF thread:

http://wildchild1962.hubpages.com/hub/The-Devils-Playground-Serial-killings


Headed by Detective Paul Ferguson, who later had to resign from this position, as he was charged with the rape of two prostitutes and later acquitted. He was later accused of stealing a dealers drugs, and again nothing happened to him. The next head of the task force was corrupt cop David Caporn.

I doubt both those allegations after watching his conduct from 1996 and also from the most recent show.

 

[perthite]

Yes I was the original poster on Perth Now that seen the footage In which I mentioned JR standing at the taxi rank only to have another group join her. You seen the lights of the car come forward and someone put their hand out. The group then stepforward only to be sent backward by the car and JR steps forward to the vehicle. As soon as I pointed this out, the next morning the footage was gone and the police had claimed to have released the wrong footage but for other reasons. That footage exists. Someone on here has shown me similar footage although the time stamps in it seem to have been doctored.

So are you suggesting there is footage from a fixed camera that captures JR leaving?

 

[perthite]

Can't confirm why (for my own security), but perthite is correct.

Seems logical if they were in the same place at the same time for 3 or 4 years while CG is studying that they could have definitely interacted.

If you can prove the above, you can prove a link to a strong POI and all 3 girls. This would then give you a suspect that is as good, if not better than the Taxi Driver.

The Police would have obviously made this link already though so then what is missing?

 

[lavagirl]

Seems logical if they were in the same place at the same time for 3 or 4 years while CG is studying that they could have definitely interacted.

If you can prove the above, you can prove a link to a strong POI and all 3 girls. This would then give you a suspect that is as good, if not better than the Taxi Driver.

The Police would have obviously made this link already though so then what is missing?

http://www.altocapital.com.au/ourteam.html

Possible. Ciara was 27 when she disappeared so would have graduated ~5-6 years earlier which looks to be the same time JM graduated. It's likely they were there at the same time.

 

[perthite]

http://www.altocapital.com.au/ourteam.html

Possible. Ciara was 27 when she disappeared so would have graduated ~5-6 years earlier which looks to be the same time JM graduated. It's likely they were there at the same time.

I didn't even think about his time as a student, entirely possible that they had classes together then as well given those 2 degrees would have some crossover.

His time on campus seems to stretch from 1988 until today so I think we can confirm 100% that they were there at the same time.

 

[PavoAustralis]

The Police would have obviously made this link already though so then what is missing?

Indeed. If you made the suggestion and I was able to check it out, they must know.

Ok, I'll see if I can explain my camera confusion without making word salad. At around 39:20 in the YouTube video, Camera 2 picks up directly where camera 1 left off. The timer on the footage shows 00:04:08, 00:04:09 [camera switch] 00:04:10, 00:04:11...that was the camera closest to the door first, then the camera closer to the Bayview/Gugeri intersection. The picking up where the other one left off should be proof that there were no gaps in filming.

If you look at the 'gaps,' they're inconsistently spaced. Go to 36:46 of the YouTube video. The timer when Jane and her friends leave the hotel says 23:41:14. It ticks over for a bit until they cut to Jane's friend Lynda who speaks about that night. Then they go back to the door cam, 23:58:37. At 23:58:45 Jane starts to walk onto the road, at 23:58:48 the view switches to the other camera, but it's now 23:58:53. Where are the 5 seconds? MM walks into frame of the Bayview/Gugeri camera at 00:01:41. He's only there until 00:01:42, at which point we're suddenly back to the door cam, it's 00:02:10 and Steve is saying "it's 28 seconds later."

Finally, the moments before Jane disappears. Back to where I mentioned earlier, 39:20ish on YouTube, Jane is standing by the pillar at 00:04:09. Right then, as the camera changes, Steve Liebmann says "there's been a 28 second delay"only at that point, there hadn't been! The other camera picked up at 00:04:10 and kept on ticking. It ticks over right up to 00:04:20, camera switches, and it's 00:04:50. 30 seconds.

Gaps: 5 seconds. 28 seconds. 30 seconds. If they were panning cameras, when were they panning? Genuine question for perthite

 

[perthite]

The full footage is here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hbbg-FVij4c. Edit : We're looking at different footage here - I'm very confused....

So we either have a situation where the camera is intermittently recording to save storage (this is possible considering this system would be recording onto tapes back then) or we're seeing edited footage by the police.

Both are completely plausible I suppose. I think I am wrong thinking they are PTZ's.

Edit 2: I think I'm with you now - they have cut the footage - the MM interaction is shown as a brief interaction but obviously it's not - it could be as long as 28 seconds. They've also cut the footage at the end - which would show JR leaving. All enough time for MM to go get his car and come back possibly?

The 5 seconds is probably cut footage where the recording switches over.

 

[PavoAustralis]

Edit 2: I think I'm with you now - they have cut the footage - the MM interaction is shown as a brief interaction but obviously it's not - it could be as long as 28 seconds. They've also cut the footage at the end - which would show JR leaving. All enough time for MM to go get his car and come back possibly?

Yes! Thank you - I thought it was me missing something there. I can't think why they'd cut it but I assume there's something in that 28 seconds that they need to keep up their sleeve.

 

[perthite]

Yes! Thank you - I thought it was me missing something there. I can't think why they'd cut it but I assume there's something in that 28 seconds that they need to keep up their sleeve.

That will certainly be their claim. They've posted enough for someone to maybe ID the person but wont show us the whole interaction.

For me, this would mean we need to put MM back as a strong potential suspect unless someone can provide a reason or some logic for the missing footage.

 

[lavagirl]

The full footage is here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hbbg-FVij4c. Edit : We're looking at different footage here - I'm very confused....

So we either have a situation where the camera is intermittently recording to save storage (this is possible considering this system would be recording onto tapes back then) or we're seeing edited footage by the police.

I'm sure I read in another forum where the differences in timings and footage was discussed at length and they came to the same conclusion about the camera switching. I will have to remember where I read it. I don't think it was on BF.

 

[perthite]

I'm sure I read in another forum where the differences in timings and footage was discussed at length and they came to the same conclusion about the camera switching. I will have to remember where I read it. I don't think it was on BF.

Yeah they're definitely intermittently recording but the key here is that when the switch between camera 1 & 2 happens at 04:09 it's seamless. The released footage we're shown has to be edited or we'd be missing 20-30 seconds of footage at that point also. A 5 second cut we can account for in the switching but 30 seconds does look like a clear edit.

Can anyone enhance the YouTube footage here - https://youtu.be/hbbg-FVij4c . To me it looks like the camera switch at 7 or 8 seconds is not any missing footage but I can't see the timer.