Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia

[Bartholemeus]

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/opi...with-major-crime/story-fnhocuug-1227396446166

WAPOL = disgrace

 

[Bartholemeus]

This thread is dead. No pun intended. Seems people are scared of being ridiculed for having ideas or asking the wrong questions. If your going to step in do it with both feet. Why the exact placing of the bodies? Making a symbol? Star configuration? Proof of confidence? Something against Claremont? SR is still my number 1 but Drocs story is riveting. Plastic boot guy with Michelle? Michelle positively id'd?

I'm not sure I agree. The BF thread was considered the best on the internet because for the most part it was well moderated by the main posters. Liars, tin-foil hats and time wasters were put to the sword pretty quick and maligned. Unfortunately in the end the BF mods perceived this as some people not being given a fair go because in their minds "everything is a valid opinion". The truth is that every single thread on the CSK end up being wrecked by the same people over and over again.

The internet deserves 1 thread devoid about stories of meeting a guy dressed as a pirate in the line at CBV, or stories of this being linked to crop circles, or hocus pocus talk of the origin of the girls' names having any relevance whatsoever.

From what I see, this thread is mostly rational debate and people have been putting rational theories out such as AngelJoan's 2 suspects and continued dissection of Droc's claims.

 

[Sutton]

I understand. But im not like all those crazy people out there.
I have a heart and i have a soul, so coming onto a forum especially on this topic, to be accused of making it up, is quite offensive.
Im a real nice person, and it seems if a person gets one thing wrong on this forum, they are torn to shreds. Accused of being a liar of even the killer.

That is true on this thread only. This thread has always been crazy and seems to follow different rules. I just learned to use the ignore feature.

The rest of WS is friendly! Welcome to the boards.

 

[Shadowboxer]

Thanks SB. I think I blinked overnight and now much info has been removed (the letter, the name associations, speculation regarding the swamp picture and timing etc) - I am hoping and suspect for the right reasons. The last few pages now reads somewhat out of context. You know my views from BF and here on WS. Let TT et al continue their silly online taunts even though their main protagonist is gone - step back and the question remains to whom and why? Too much lines up to be coincidental IMHO.

Proverbs 21:15

Is Drocs letter gone? Have to go back and look. That's an obvious sign it's being well looked into. I wonder if they have ID'd Michelle. Surely if she was working in the factory. I don't know about Droc, He's either guilty and can make up a ripper of a story or he's really dropped a bomb. Yes Ex, big chance that plastic boot guy is this michelles Partner if they really were making snuff films in that room.

 

[Shadowboxer]

I'm not sure I agree. The BF thread was considered the best on the internet because for the most part it was well moderated by the main posters. Liars, tin-foil hats and time wasters were put to the sword pretty quick and maligned. Unfortunately in the end the BF mods perceived this as some people not being given a fair go because in their minds "everything is a valid opinion". The truth is that every single thread on the CSK end up being wrecked by the same people over and over again.

The internet deserves 1 thread devoid about stories of meeting a guy dressed as a pirate in the line at CBV, or stories of this being linked to crop circles, or hocus pocus talk of the origin of the girls' names having any relevance whatsoever.

From what I see, this thread is mostly rational debate and people have been putting rational theories out such as AngelJoan's 2 suspects and continued dissection of Droc's claims.

What I sort of meant is nobody is offering anything new of late. I have asked several times about peoples theories on the dump sites and what that may mean and nobody seems to offer anything. Is there anything I'm missing other than the fact the line dissects Claremont?

 

[Shadowboxer]

The police seemed to be running a lone perp investigation for a long time.

Different scenario with a group of two or more.

Incapacitate, drop at close-by intermediate location with others, establish alibi elsewhere, re-engage with group, then disposal site at some stage later that day or the following. May explain the DNA situation as well which requires contact.

From what I have read CG location was well off road and would have required considerable physical effort by a lone perp at night in pitch blackness and through scrub - that's why I have never ascribed to a single perp theory. IMO.

This is actually a really good theory and quite possible but i'm sticking with the lone SK for now. Why is it the police believe the girls were killed very soon after being abducted i wonder? And how long were they really kept before being killed or dumped is another question.

 

[Shadowboxer]

I think with Drocs letter being removed we can safely assume that even though Webslueth's is an American site the Australian authorities are monitoring it closely and calling the shots on what can be published.

 

[ExcaliburX]

I think with Drocs letter being removed we can safely assume that even though Webslueth's is an American site the Australian authorities are monitoring it closely and calling the shots on what can be published.

Compelling really.

Hopefully that sick crew will be spending eternity with Bubba real real soon. Justice will be served.

No more taunting jibes on YouTube, Facebook or Flickr where they are going.

 

[ExcaliburX]

What I sort of meant is nobody is offering anything new of late. I have asked several times about peoples theories on the dump sites and what that may mean and nobody seems to offer anything. Is there anything I'm missing other than the fact the line dissects Claremont?

Plenty on the disposal sites on BF. Search for both in the thread. Both known sites equidistant in opposite directions which points to the first being local or East.

 

[Fortune Cookie]

I'm incredibly frustrated reading this thread. I read something interesting, go away to think it over and come back to find it gone. I can't discuss what I can't reread and nobody else can read because I'll look like some crackpot loony!
AngelJoan, I read your posts and I would love to have had the opportunity to dissect the information some more. It's certainly not a stretch to be able to link your people together with other criminal types and uncover a group of very sick and depraved individuals, who collectively do horrific things.
My line of thinking leans definitely toward the group theory; a 'taxi' pickup, subdue, dropoff victim, setup alibi and then regroup. I believe that it's a highly organised group and they all hold it against each other, so nobody talks. I also believe that there are probably several members of LE who know about it (possibly involved) and have diverted attention away, lost evidence and or turned a blind eye because they've been 'told to'.
I think that LE knows that there is a lot more people involved and the best way of a breakthrough is to wait for them to turn on each other.

 

[Shadowboxer]

Hmm but is all this group theories only coming out now because of Drocs claims? I think it's the work of one sick Individual myself but wouldn't be surprised in the least if you are correct either. If Droc's claims are true, remember his house burned, then it's a massive breakthrough and as it's been removed I think there must be some truth to it or it is at least being thoroughly looked at. Wouldn't be surprised if Droc was somehow involved too. He seems to know an awful lot and have intimate conversations for someone that isn't in on such a closed crew.

 

[Fortune Cookie]

Wouldn't be surprised if Droc was somehow involved too. He seems to know an awful lot and have intimate conversations for someone that isn't in on such a closed crew.

I think there's certainly merit in what he had to say. And he did seem incredibly vocal about it. However, his relentless pursuit of trying to get LE to take notice and act on his information, reeks of inside cover ups and being so dismissive of his claims. Hence, my earlier suggestion that there is a level of 'knowledge' or somebody who is involved who shouldn't be given their position... something reeks.
As for whether he was involved? I do believe he was on the periphery of the group and may have been invited (groomed) to have some involvement, but declined. Who knows? I guess he can't tell us, cause he's dead.

 

[Bartholemeus]

I think there's certainly merit in what he had to say. And he did seem incredibly vocal about it. However, his relentless pursuit of trying to get LE to take notice and act on his information, reeks of inside cover ups and being so dismissive of his claims. Hence, my earlier suggestion that there is a level of 'knowledge' or somebody who is involved who shouldn't be given their position... something reeks.
As for whether he was involved? I do believe he was on the periphery of the group and may have been invited (groomed) to have some involvement, but declined. Who knows? I guess he can't tell us, cause he's dead.

Unfortunately we don't know WAPOL's side of the story. And they will never tell us because police forces rarely concede they were wrong.

What we do know is:

1. It seems they misplaced Droc's information
2. Police did actually admit that their collection and storage of evidence process was flawed
3. Lot's of people claim they spoke to police and police just didn't want to know about it. The police do't have to tell punters the outcome of the info that was provided but there's just too much smoke for there not to be fire.

There's certainly some endemic problems at WAPOL. I would have thought the families of all the victims, as well as those wrongly convicted, as well as the WA public deserved better.

 

[Shadowboxer]

As for LE being involved I would hate to think that is the case and really doubt it. I think it was just a case of macro having their blinkers on with LW and not looking at other options. I think they do have DNA as well.

 

[Shadowboxer]

I think there's certainly merit in what he had to say. And he did seem incredibly vocal about it. However, his relentless pursuit of trying to get LE to take notice and act on his information, reeks of inside cover ups and being so dismissive of his claims. Hence, my earlier suggestion that there is a level of 'knowledge' or somebody who is involved who shouldn't be given their position... something reeks.
As for whether he was involved? I do believe he was on the periphery of the group and may have been invited (groomed) to have some involvement, but declined. Who knows? I guess he can't tell us, cause he's dead.

I would say this is a very good assessment regards the grooming at the very least which is what he implied.

 

[Shadowboxer]

Plenty on the disposal sites on BF. Search for both in the thread. Both known sites equidistant in opposite directions which points to the first being local or East.

That would make it North East. Have had a suss on Google Earth and there is lots of plantations? Bush through there.

 

[ExcaliburX]

Unfortunately we don't know WAPOL's side of the story. And they will never tell us because police forces rarely concede they were wrong.

What we do know is:

1. It seems they misplaced Droc's information
2. Police did actually admit that their collection and storage of evidence process was flawed
3. Lot's of people claim they spoke to police and police just didn't want to know about it. The police do't have to tell punters the outcome of the info that was provided but there's just too much smoke for there not to be fire.

There's certainly some endemic problems at WAPOL. I would have thought the families of all the victims, as well as those wrongly convicted, as well as the WA public deserved better.

Droc posted that letter online in March 2015.

He claims he gave it to TT in 2011.

He had at least 4 years to give that detail to police. Did he?

The only information Droc appears (on his own accounting through BF) to have provided police PRIOR to coming online in 2015 were suspicions about TT alibi, and later suspicions about his associates and their house in Fremantle which were included in the apparent letter from his ex senator and professor friends. This letter can be found on BF.

There was certainly no mention of the factory at White Gum Valley, nor names, nor MO, nor anything about other murders and vehicles he claimed were associated. All critical to the investigation if true.

Only disclosed AFTER he was interviewed by police again in December 2014.

Where he refused to co-operate.

Maybe they asked him about the fire at his old house a week before too?

If all of what he claimed in that final letter is in fact true, he concealed his complete knowledge from the police for decades. Criminal offence in itself?

If he had disclosed ALL he claimed to know to the authorities in 1997, rather than in 2015, more than likely we wouldn't be having this discussion. All the claims and associations made in the letter would have been investigated back then - not just his suspicion about an alibi (involving a spliff of all things).

His friends in that video indicated he was happy and at peace before he passed away. Certainly no comments that he had lost the plot, become paranoid or delusional.

Why would he act like this unless he had some degree of involvement?

 

[AngelJoan]

Now we getting somewhere!

Droc himself with access to a taxi Number 2. TT and co top ten. SS was an intelligent young lady and rang for a taxi. I don’t believe she got in anything else. Same with JR. Pretty much saw her hop in one.

I agree and what if the taxi theme was ditched for the next because there was so much awareness raised. Taxi for SS and JR but for the next time, CG, instead used plain anonymous light coloured vehicle, and engage her or did not seem immediately threatening until too late, perhaps with some bizarre reason that seems so odd she did not think it could be even possibly sinister(if it was either #1 or #2, very likely, as that's similar / in line with how they both get out of "close captures" by F&F), leading to her becoming vulnerable even though she was a smart girl?

If there is one thing I've learned, it's that they (the predators, both strangers and predators in one's own circle of f&f), as the www has brought awareness and made it harder yet also more in demand as an unsavory past time that requires increasing levels of cunning in order to do successfully and not get caught.

Also Re grooming: Have a look at this: http://safe-at-last.hubpages.com/hub/The-Fine-Art-of-Grooming

Also&again,I have noticed something similar in most of the "solved" murder doco's, including the way good(successful) detectives have a knack for seeing parallels and linking the dots. Example Bega school murders where the HI made note of a witness who reported seeing a tv on the side of the road, and made an important link for the prosecution case:

ottps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ELYXFINdnM



Also:

snipped) From what I see, this thread is mostly rational debate and people have been putting rational theories out such as AngelJoan's 2 suspects and continued dissection of Droc's claims.

TY for the vote of confidence, Barththolemeus. It actually means a heap to me :blushing:

I must say, when I stopped in here a while ago (looking for a couple of my previous posts to copy & paste 'cause I'm still trudging through the 10's of pages I've done so far for my stat dec/ encyclopedia ;-)) and saw the page number for the thread had gone back down again, and I thought "Noooo not again! Just when someone listens I bombard them and no-one wants to know again" AKA here I go again on my own.... I thought I'd be on everyone's ignore list again, and while it's my first time trying to solve my dilemma in a forum, it was just to de ja vu with regard to my real life experiences... (I'd tell a /friend/ lawyer etc.just one more thing after saying a tiny bit and then watch their eyes glaze over).

IGWIWS is that, to read your comment and see that more than a couple of members, all who's insights and opinions I thought held merit and therefore were those whom I wish most to convince to at least listen to my story, have also thanked your post, has left me :tears:, something for which I was not prepared, point I'm trying to make is: thanks to you all, for giving my waning hope a much needed boost :cheer:, because :juggle: + :bodyguard: +:fishy: + :sigh: + :waiting::websleuther: + :shush: + kid's illowfight: + :rollercoaster: = :facepalm: +:trainwreck:


Curious as to why they removed post about a database and perp sheet though. I reckon we could fill a lot in with just what we have in our heads...?

BTW + FYI:
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/opi...with-major-crime/story-fnhocuug-1227396446166

 

[Shadowboxer]

Droc posted that letter online in March 2015.

He claims he gave it to TT in 2011.

He had at least 4 years to give that detail to police. Did he?

The only information Droc appears (on his own accounting through BF) to have provided police PRIOR to coming online in 2015 were suspicions about TT alibi, and later suspicions about his associates and their house in Fremantle which were included in the apparent letter from his ex senator and professor friends. This letter can be found on BF.

There was certainly no mention of the factory at White Gum Valley, nor names, nor MO, nor anything about other murders and vehicles he claimed were associated. All critical to the investigation if true.

Only disclosed AFTER he himself was interviewed by police again in December 2014.

Where he refused to co-operate.

If all of what he claimed in that final letter is in fact true, he concealed his complete knowledge from the police for decades. Criminal offence in itself?

If he had disclosed ALL he claimed to know to the authorities in 1996/1997, rather than in 2015, more than likely we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Why would he act like this unless he had some degree of involvement?

Awesome analysis. Your the most on the ball sleuth on this case mate and I agree with this 100%. Droc himself had access to taxi's. Comprehensive timeline that begs those questions... why not cooperate and give dna and fill in the sheet? if you have nothing to worry about. I'm not saying something strange wasn't going on in that room but why only publish the letter after you have been confronted by police? To palm off the blame to someone who had access to the same taxi's he did thinking macro were closing in and he was acting out of desperation. Just another angle. Could he have torched that house knowing there could be traces of the girls in there?

 

[ExcaliburX]

Awesome analysis. Your the most on the ball sleuth on this case mate and I agree with this 100%. Droc himself had access to taxi's. Comprehensive timeline that begs those questions... why not cooperate and give dna and fill in the sheet? if you have nothing to worry about. I'm not saying something strange wasn't going on in that room but why only publish the letter after you have been confronted by police? To palm off the blame to someone who had access to the same taxi's he did thinking macro were closing in and he was acting out of desperation. Just another angle. Could he have torched that house knowing there could be traces of the girls in there?

Just watched that video again - I trust the police have too.

A few oddities in there which raise more questions than answers.

Not a single word about the CSK investigation which Droc claimed ruined his life and relationships.

And which he pursued for so long with his allegations about the dodgy alibi of his ex-mate. The subject of which he claimed his powerful professional friends wrote to the then Police Commissioner about - both of whom are in the video - with the apparent letter to the Commissioner on the BF thread (by the way, wonder how they felt when he posted that final letter - I would have felt betrayed).

Not one word.

Access to 27 cars in 34 years.

Apparent ongoing police surveillance - why if he was such a reformed now law abiding character? He was released in 1982, right?

What was he doing out late at night - "nocturnal activities" - with his mate John B - and giggles about this activity?

His friends telling police they had no idea where he resided when asked - despite him working on their roof at the very time the police came knocking. And then commenting his address and whereabouts was a big secret - why if he was such a lovely reformed man?

Trial at which the mother in law of his friend gave evidence as a character reference. Based on what - interaction over scones and roast lamb?

He admitted on BF that he had served time for unlawful carnal knowledge - constant references to his interaction with their kids.

Was he under reporting conditions and / or professional care in 1996/1997?

Bizarre.

I keep seeing references to a cover - up. I'm seeing signs of one too - not by the police though.