Closing Arguments- Chase Merritt Charged W/Murder of Joseph, Summer, Gianni and Joe Jr McStay #2

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Speaking of SP, we had quite a few people who thought he was innocent in websleuths. It's like that in every case.

Including virtually all circumstantial cases where the jury finds the perp guilty.

RSBM

I've always been fascinated by this, and indeed it is why I joined Websleuths in the first place.

On the Knox case I got in a very detailed and heated debate with a maths professor about the Pistorius testimony. Though we agreed on Knox, she was convinced Pistorius version was largely true, because it better fitted the witness evidence. She approached it in a very analytical/probabilistic way.

As a former lawyer, I was convinced Pistorius testimony was inherently unreliable, and that he had reverse engineered it having heard the State case. IMO i was a quite a lot more cynical than her as to how a defence strategy worked.

But to prove who was right, required a micro level of analysis that i sort of feel is beyond the Court process and indeed the trial Judge largely failed to confront the evidence at all, throwing her hands in the air and simply ignored large amounts of circumstantial evidence, including incredibly, all the crime scene photos.

Ultimately, although i think it will never be possible to know what happened that night in detail, some very industrious posters were able to reverse engineer some of the tailoring, and show how some honest mistakes from the witnesses could be fitted back together.

Indeed the Prosecutor had implored the judge to focus on the big picture which the witnesses all agreed on, rather than focus on micro-explanations for each point, which taken together, were highly implausible.

IMO that is exactly what we are seeing in this case. There is no plausible explanation for the totality of Chase's conduct.

I've come around to the conclusion that people get seduced by highly speculative explanations about cheques, DNA, cell, IP addresses etc etc which are balanced on the head of a pin
 
I'm concerned on an appellate level.
I believe we are going to be doing this all over again.
I wanted it to be done right the first time so it would be over.
That didn't happen, that isn't happening and it is infuriating to me.

I believe we will be back on another verdict watch on this case in the future. :confused:

The trial procedure was such a farce I feel we need to do it again sadly.
 
The trial procedure was such a farce I feel we need to do it again sadly.

I agree. I just don't think the verdict will have any integrity or hold any weight. A hung jury now is probably the fastest way to get him tried again. If they do convict and it's years of appeals that will be brutal. Sorry so negative... just feels inevitable. I cannot even believe this was allowed to happen.
 
I'm reserving my opinion based on what happens in the first hour of deliberations today.

I think 9 am start yesterday shows a good attitude. It could also be something they reluctantly agreed to because they didn't start deliberations until 1.30 pm on Tuesday, but who knows.

The 2 hour lunch and only 2 hours of deliberations yesterday afternoon seems like it could be that they finalized their deliberations and no reason to hang around longer but didn't notify the court because of the 2 hour notice period. If they had given notice of a verdict at 2 pm the court would only just be reconvening at 4 pm, and even that could be delayed given how slowly things always run there.

So if they had a verdict yesterday then I would expect it to be apparent in the first hour today.

If the first hour goes by without hearing from them I will join the worry club, big time. Then I will probably start hoping for a hung jury. I'm fighting off my wild imaginings of catastrophe.
 
Then again if they were that close to a verdict at noon yesterday you'd think they would have filled out the forms before lunch and then given 2 hours notice of a verdict to be read at 2 pm and then gone out to eat.

So I'm doubting this now. If they do weird hours today I think the judge needs to get them in for a talking to. 2 hour lunches are not on.

McGee's/Maline's affidavits have to be filed today.
 
Morning all!

Iirc, the last CA trial I followed before this one was the SP trial in 2004.

So I wonder if trials like this one has become more of the new norm now in CA? Stops, starts, and delays. Maybe this is how they are done in this area of CA?

I am wrestling to understand why this trial is so different even for a CA trial, and not in a good way.

I don't recall any jury conducting themselves the way this one has when deliberating.

It reminds of the old saying of 'born tired, and raised lazy.' They seem to put very little effort into determining their verdict this case.

It really shouldn't be about knowing family members of the victims have waited 9 years for this day to come or that a defendant is waiting to know his fate.

It's all about fulfilling their own duties fully they took an oath to do. Yet they do it piece meal little bits at a time.

All of this has been so foreign to me as a prior juror myself. We were always asked by the judge whether we would like to go out for a 1 hour lunch or have a lunch brought in. In every case we selected to have lunch in the room. Other than that we took one 10 minute break in the morning, and a 10 minute break in the afternoon. We made sure they were only 10 minutes each. The bailiffs always knew when we were back deliberating.

We put in full 8 to 10 hour long days each, and every day without exception.

If any had a prior appointment if it was going to disrupt deliberations for all jurors, they were rescheduled making sure the deliberation was ongoing, and fluid until we had reached our verdict.

We all thought it was our civic duty to do it in a timely manner.

So the way this jury has done their deliberations has been as bizarre as the trial itself.

It has convinced me that this will be the last CA murder trial I will ever follow.

I feel this case has made a mockery out of our justice system.

Imo
 
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Morning all!

Iirc, the last trial I followed before this one was the SP trial in 2004.

So I wonder if trials like this one has become more of the new norm now in CA? Stops, starts, and delays. Maybe this is how they are done in this area of CA?

I am wrestling to understand why this trial is so different even for a CA trial, and not in a good way.

I don't recall any jury conducting themselves the way this one has when deliberating.

It reminds of the old saying of 'born tired, and raised lazy.' They seem to put very little effort into determining their verdict this case.

It really shouldn't be about knowing family members of the victims have waited 9 years for this day to come or that a defendant is waiting to know his fate.

It's all about fulfilling their own duties fully they took an oath to do. Yet they do it piece meal little bits at a time.

All of this has been so foreign to me as a prior juror myself. We were always asked by the judge whether we would like to go out for a 1 hour lunch or have a lunch brought in. In every case we selected to have lunch in the room. Other than that we took one 10 minute break in the morning, and a 10 minute break in the afternoon. We made sure they were only 10 minutes each. The bailiffs always knew when we were back deliberating.

We put in full 8 to 10 hour long days each, and every day without exception.

If any had a prior appointment if it was going to disrupt deliberations for all jurors, they were rescheduled making sure the deliberation was ongoing, and fluid until we had reached our verdict.

We all thought it was our civic duty to do it in a timely manner.

So the way this jury has done their deliberations has been as bizarre as the trial itself.

It has convinced me that this will be the last CA murder trial I will ever follow.

I feel this case has made a mockery out of our justice system.

Imo
I don't understand it either. It has been quite a frustrating trial to follow with all the stopping and starting IMO.
 
Then again if they were that close to a verdict at noon yesterday you'd think they would have filled out the forms before lunch and then given 2 hours notice of a verdict to be read at 2 pm and then gone out to eat.

So I'm doubting this now. If they do weird hours today I think the judge needs to get them in for a talking to. 2 hour lunches are not on.

McGee's/Maline's affidavits have to be filed today.
Agree and are they going to deliberate on Fridays? I'm thinking we will be lucky to get a verdict by the end of next week the way this one is going.
Yes i think those affidavits had to be done by Thurday iirc.
 
Morning all!

Iirc, the last trial I followed before this one was the SP trial in 2004.

So I wonder if trials like this one has become more of the new norm now in CA? Stops, starts, and delays. Maybe this is how they are done in this area of CA?

I am wrestling to understand why this trial is so different even for a CA trial, and not in a good way.

I don't recall any jury conducting themselves the way this one has when deliberating.

It reminds of the old saying of 'born tired, and raised lazy.' They seem to put very little effort into determining their verdict this case.

It really shouldn't be about knowing family members of the victims have waited 9 years for this day to come or that a defendant is waiting to know his fate.

It's all about fulfilling their own duties fully they took an oath to do. Yet they do it piece meal little bits at a time.

All of this has been so foreign to me as a prior juror myself. We were always asked by the judge whether we would like to go out for a 1 hour lunch or have a lunch brought in. In every case we selected to have lunch in the room. Other than that we took one 10 minute break in the morning, and a 10 minute break in the afternoon. We made sure they were only 10 minutes each. The bailiffs always knew when we were back deliberating.

We put in full 8 to 10 hour long days each, and every day without exception.

If any had a prior appointment if it was going to disrupt deliberations for all jurors, they were rescheduled making sure the deliberation was ongoing, and fluid until we had reached our verdict.

We all thought it was our civic duty to do it in a timely manner.

So the way this jury has done their deliberations has been as bizarre as the trial itself.

It has convinced me that this will be the last CA murder trial I will ever follow.

I feel this case has made a mockery out of our justice system.

Imo

If you were on the jury wouldn't you want to get down to it and immerse yourself in the evidence? I would be all for packing a lunch, skip the 2 hour breaks and getting the job done.

Maybe they are enjoying the experience and each others company too much.
 
I remember one male juror who kind of kept to himself while the others were interacting in the hallway before the trial began in the morning. Maybe he's just a quiet person or a bit shy. I'm not going to read too much into the "somber" comment, unless it turns out he's relieved they've already reached a guilty verdict. :p

I've seen when the 12 jurors are selected there always seems to be one or two who arent as interactive as the rest.

They weren't sullen or disgruntled individuals though. They were as you have said, they were either shy or weren't socially as verbal as the others.

When I was a foreman I tried to make sure those individuals knew they mattered as much as everyone else sitting in the deliberation room because they are.

In some of the trials while in deliberations they slowly came out of their shell. But some still were quiet, but they did listen very closely to all the evidence being discussed.

Jurors are human beings, and not clones of each other. Thank goodness.

Imo
 
If you were on the jury wouldn't you want to get down to it and immerse yourself in the evidence? I would be all for packing a lunch, skip the 2 hour breaks and getting the job done.

Maybe they are enjoying the experience and each others company too much.

Absolutely. That way they dont all have to remember where they left off.

Imo so many starts, stops, hours here, and there, and ridiculously long lunches blows my mind.

I would want to deliberate as much as possible every day... not only because I would feel it is fulfilling my duty to do, but because it's the right thing to do for both sides.

Jmho
 
The way this jury has deliberated piecemeal almost comes across as petty payback.

They have experienced so many unnecessary delays themselves waiting weeks, and weeks for any testimony to even happen from the witness stand.

So it comes across as if they are thinking they can do the same when they know everyone is waiting for them to render their verdict.

Jmho
 
The way this jury has deliberated piecemeal almost comes across as petty payback.

They have experienced so many unnecessary delays themselves waiting weeks, and weeks for any testimony to even happen from the witness stand.

So it comes across as if they are thinking they can do the same when they know everyone is waiting for them to render their verdict.

Jmho
I'm edging closer and closer to the worry club, asking myself if these are the actions of reasonable-minded people.
 
What sticks in my mind is one very vocal juror who shouted out something at the end of one of the days when they were discussing (I think) the jurors who needed time off for a cruise and she said something (IMO) flippant like 'you can't even do 5 minutes?' (IIRC). At the time I thought the shouting seemed inappropriate to the setting and it seemed to me as if she could have the propensity to be a bit overbearing.

JMO
 
If Cathy Russon's estimate is right, they have deliberated for 17 hours. Taking into account the start stops since that is over 4 days with lunch breaks, how much time have they actually deliberated? There is a lot for these jurors to go through and discuss. They haven't been able to discuss it all this time, maybe some have questions about things that weren't clear to them, maybe they are looking at some of the 100's of exhibits that were introduced into evidence. 17 hours is really not that long when you haven't been able to discuss and work through some of these things all these months like we have. Or maybe I'm completely wrong and they are split haha But I just don't think they have had substantial time to deliberate.

I have been saying for quite awhile that I think the best outcome for this trial would be a hung jury. As much as no one wants to have to watch another trial, or don't want to see the families go through this again, it seems to me anyway, to be the best outcome.

For those that think the trial was terribly run and that there are/were issues, will you feel the same way if the jury comes back with a guilty verdict? Will you then be okay with the 'system'? and how this trial was run? Will you be concerned that it will overturned on appeals?

L&C has been showing another trial in California, also in deliberations, they are doing 9-4:30 (and also took an 1 1/2 hour lunch break yesterday) The trial wasn't as long, and it's not a murder case, but from what I saw the trial was run in a much better or "normal" way IMO

All JMO
 
If you were on the jury wouldn't you want to get down to it and immerse yourself in the evidence? I would be all for packing a lunch, skip the 2 hour breaks and getting the job done.

Maybe they are enjoying the experience and each others company too much.

I would want to get it done! I would be like you and be packing a lunch lol at best they are getting in 5 1/2 - 6 hours a day with the hours they are keeping... 9-4:00/4:30. Taking an 1 1/2 - 2 hour lunches.... it takes time to settle in, time to get ready to go for lunch or for the day... it seems so unproductive to me :confused:
 
What sticks in my mind is one very vocal juror who shouted out something at the end of one of the days when they were discussing (I think) the jurors who needed time off for a cruise and she said something (IMO) flippant like 'you can't even do 5 minutes?' (IIRC). At the time I thought the shouting seemed inappropriate to the setting and it seemed to me as if she could have the propensity to be a bit overbearing.

JMO

We had one of those one time, but it was a male. When we were trying to select a foreman he stands up, and said he should be, and wanted to be the foreman.

At that time no one else wanted the position. He caused more problems than ever being a calm leader. He was an egotistical jerk.

Finally we all were fed up with him thinking he was the only one allowed to tell the rest what to think.

We told him if he did not respect everyone's views we would vote for another foreman to take his place, and notify the judge.

He finally shut up, and let each of us discuss what we individually thought about the evidence, and what it meant to each of us.

An overbearing foreperson can be toxic in jury deliberations. They aren't leaders.....they often turnout to be overbearing control freaks, and only their opinion counts.

Imoo
 
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