CLUES: how to find Susan

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dovebar said:
It would be interesting to know where SP was when he took his days off after Susan's disappearance - like, was he registered in any campgrounds around Mt. St. Helen's?
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That would be interesting to know, indeed. The question has been asked many times here, but so far we haven't come up with answers. I bet LE knows, though. They better!

imo
 
I had thought from the beginning, that the outcome would be Susan would not be found, but the boys would go to the Cox's and JP would forever home down again with SP and the other siblings. JP committing suicide and taking the kids with him came as a huge shock because that was something we were afraid of in the beginning after the beanie interview, when he was fragile; not when seeing him regain strength and determination in fighting for them. imo
 
This is an old thread but I have thought about this case for years now. I think, initially at least, that JP took SP out I-80 to an area he had scouted in advance. I don't think it was out into the area (Pony Express Route (PER)) that he claimed he spent the night with the kids. Though I think he went out I-80, buried SP and then went the the PER. The kids stated that they "didn't even get to have a fire and make s'mores" I think because JP was too busy most of the night burying SP and traveling to his "camp-site" so that by the time he got to the PER and Simpson Springs it was very early in the morning. I've also thought that this was the reason he made trips out to Wendover on I-80 shortly after this blew up in his face, because I think he was trying to see if LE was looking in the initial burial site. I'm still not sure if JP moved her at a later date. Seems too risky, but who knows?
 
ghost story said:
This is an old thread but I have thought about this case for years now. I think, initially at least, that JP took SP out I-80 to an area he had scouted in advance. I don't think it was out into the area (Pony Express Route (PER)) that he claimed he spent the night with the kids. Though I think he went out I-80, buried SP and then went the the PER. The kids stated that they "didn't even get to have a fire and make s'mores" I think because JP was too busy most of the night burying SP and traveling to his "camp-site" so that by the time he got to the PER and Simpson Springs it was very early in the morning. I've also thought that this was the reason he made trips out to Wendover on I-80 shortly after this blew up in his face, because I think he was trying to see if LE was looking in the initial burial site. I'm still not sure if JP moved her at a later date. Seems too risky, but who knows?
Click to expand...

Just getting into the Cold podcast....and this theory might hold a little water according to the cell pings (this post is 4 years old so I may be missing newer info....).
 
ghost story said:
This is an old thread but I have thought about this case for years now. I think, initially at least, that JP took SP out I-80 to an area he had scouted in advance. I don't think it was out into the area (Pony Express Route (PER)) that he claimed he spent the night with the kids. Though I think he went out I-80, buried SP and then went the the PER. The kids stated that they "didn't even get to have a fire and make s'mores" I think because JP was too busy most of the night burying SP and traveling to his "camp-site" so that by the time he got to the PER and Simpson Springs it was very early in the morning. I've also thought that this was the reason he made trips out to Wendover on I-80 shortly after this blew up in his face, because I think he was trying to see if LE was looking in the initial burial site. I'm still not sure if JP moved her at a later date. Seems too risky, but who knows?
Click to expand...


After rereading my post and listening to the Cold podcast, I have a little more to add to my previous post.

JP is alone most days with SP at work and the kids at daycare. He has ample time to pick when, where and how he will kill SP and how and where he will dispose of her body. I believe this is what happened:

On Dec. 6th, JP cooks lunch/dinner for SP and puts prescription medication in her food to poison her. She goes to her bedroom and her friend (JO) leaves. JP takes the kids out of the house to go sledding. I think this is to make sure the kids don’t interfere and see SP dying. When JP returns he finds SP has moved to the couch. She is either deceased or very sick. I believe she has vomited and JP cleans this up (explains the wet carpet, the fans and the lack of blood evidence). If she is not quite dead, I believe JP strangles SP to finish the job. At this point, I think JP “medicates” the kids using something like Benadryl to help them sleep. JP then takes SP, the camping gear, any supplies he needs and places them in his van. He loads the kids into the van and leaves the house. I believe he heads west on I-80 to a preplanned spot, well away from the freeway and hidden enough that if he uses light from the car or any other source, he will not be seen. He buries SP and then heads to the Pony Express Route and Simpson Springs to camp for what remains of the night. From there he returns to West Valley City, turns his phone on too early, and is seen by the neighbor; his first major mistakes. He then drives south to I-15 to the Utah/Salt Lake County line, turns on his cell-phone and calls SP’s work to establish his alibi.

Later, when he rents the car, he may have moved SP but I don’t think he did. Far too risky when he knows the police are at least very suspicious about his activity. As I said above, I think he drives west on I-80 several times to see if there is any activity where he has buried SP. It's easy enough after the snowfall, all he has to do is look for tracks in the snow. No need to actually go off the highway and out into the desert.

From there – Who knows? JP may never have taken SP anywhere west of his home. There is just no evidence that she is anywhere specific like Simpson Springs. She could be in eastern Nevada or southern Idaho, really almost anywhere within a few hours from his house. The only thing we know is that he is spotted in the Simpson Springs area on the morning of Dec. 7th.

I think the previous discussion of hiding a body in a mine shaft becomes a red herring that WVC PD is forced to check on even though it was a passing comment from JP years before at a party. In fact, it ends up helping him because SP is not in a mine shaft in the west desert of Utah. Very convenient for JP since that is where he wants his alibi to lead the police. (Or at least to the Simpson Springs area.)

JP is fairly intelligent, he is far from infallible. One thing I did notice from listening to his police interviews and which was mentioned in the Cold podcast is that he talks about the truth and shuts up when he can’t tell the truth. This isn’t strictly true but he dances around the truth when he must, otherwise, he goes silent.

I’m still hoping someone happens across Susan’s remains. Hopefully, before her parents pass on.
 
Remember, they found a burnt piece of metal that they could not identify. I wonder if it was something he used to help feed her body into a fire, because he was also throwing out several burnt items the very next day when police wanted to question him. Clearly he enjoyed fires, as he took himself and kids out with several five gallon gas containers and burnt the house. I don't think she will ever be found because he was going to make sure he destroyed all evidence of her body. Saying he built a fire for his boys in the cold to keep them warm, but then getting rid of her piece by piece while letting them occupy themselves with smores.
 
Justice Law said:
Remember, they found a burnt piece of metal that they could not identify. I wonder if it was something he used to help feed her body into a fire, because he was also throwing out several burnt items the very next day when police wanted to question him. Clearly he enjoyed fires, as he took himself and kids out with several five gallon gas containers and burnt the house. I don't think she will ever be found because he was going to make sure he destroyed all evidence of her body. Saying he built a fire for his boys in the cold to keep them warm, but then getting rid of her piece by piece while letting them occupy themselves with smores.
Click to expand...
 
He may have then used a small trowel to bury any remaining artifacts. And that was probably the burnt metal they could not identify. He was digging into the remaining coals for so long to ensure he got every last tooth or bone fragment. It burnt. Then he buried the remnants.
 
Never tried it myself, but I understand that burning a body that is recently deceased is difficult.

Snow & cold temperatures, too.

Now if more people were involved, to keep that fire burning -- possible?

Information on cremation:

How Hot is the Cremation Oven? | Best Cremation Care

1400 - 1800 degrees, in highly controlled conditions.

Campfires burn hotter than I expected:

How Hot Does A Campfire Burn? | Tent Camping Life

up to 1100 degrees!

I am afraid that Michael's suicide really reduced the chances of ever locating Susan's remains.

jmho ymmv lrr
 
ghost story said:
After rereading my post and listening to the Cold podcast, I have a little more to add to my previous post.

JP is alone most days with SP at work and the kids at daycare. He has ample time to pick when, where and how he will kill SP and how and where he will dispose of her body. I believe this is what happened:

On Dec. 6th, JP cooks lunch/dinner for SP and puts prescription medication in her food to poison her. She goes to her bedroom and her friend (JO) leaves. JP takes the kids out of the house to go sledding. I think this is to make sure the kids don’t interfere and see SP dying. When JP returns he finds SP has moved to the couch. She is either deceased or very sick. I believe she has vomited and JP cleans this up (explains the wet carpet, the fans and the lack of blood evidence). If she is not quite dead, I believe JP strangles SP to finish the job. At this point, I think JP “medicates” the kids using something like Benadryl to help them sleep. JP then takes SP, the camping gear, any supplies he needs and places them in his van. He loads the kids into the van and leaves the house. I believe he heads west on I-80 to a preplanned spot, well away from the freeway and hidden enough that if he uses light from the car or any other source, he will not be seen. He buries SP and then heads to the Pony Express Route and Simpson Springs to camp for what remains of the night. From there he returns to West Valley City, turns his phone on too early, and is seen by the neighbor; his first major mistakes. He then drives south to I-15 to the Utah/Salt Lake County line, turns on his cell-phone and calls SP’s work to establish his alibi.

Later, when he rents the car, he may have moved SP but I don’t think he did. Far too risky when he knows the police are at least very suspicious about his activity. As I said above, I think he drives west on I-80 several times to see if there is any activity where he has buried SP. It's easy enough after the snowfall, all he has to do is look for tracks in the snow. No need to actually go off the highway and out into the desert.

From there – Who knows? JP may never have taken SP anywhere west of his home. There is just no evidence that she is anywhere specific like Simpson Springs. She could be in eastern Nevada or southern Idaho, really almost anywhere within a few hours from his house. The only thing we know is that he is spotted in the Simpson Springs area on the morning of Dec. 7th.

I think the previous discussion of hiding a body in a mine shaft becomes a red herring that WVC PD is forced to check on even though it was a passing comment from JP years before at a party. In fact, it ends up helping him because SP is not in a mine shaft in the west desert of Utah. Very convenient for JP since that is where he wants his alibi to lead the police. (Or at least to the Simpson Springs area.)

JP is fairly intelligent, he is far from infallible. One thing I did notice from listening to his police interviews and which was mentioned in the Cold podcast is that he talks about the truth and shuts up when he can’t tell the truth. This isn’t strictly true but he dances around the truth when he must, otherwise, he goes silent.

I’m still hoping someone happens across Susan’s remains. Hopefully, before her parents pass on.
Click to expand...
Great post
 
I think the story of JP's deceased brother gathering her body in western Oregon and having the vehicle he drove destroyed at a junk yard the most compelling. Out in no where. I read that a few years back here. If the law can't get information or confirmation on that, then not sure what anyone can find Susan, sadly. smh Susan needs to be found & think this trip of MP is part of finding Susan. Hope I didn't read a farce of a tale about this, it's been a while.

jmo
 
I think the suicide of his brother could potentially indicate that, if he wasn't directly involved, he may have known at least something about what happened to Susan.

As for if she were cremated - I do think it'd take a lot more than an open campfire to burn a freshly deceased body as indicated above. But on the off chance JP were able to dispose of her body in this way, it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to ever get a a positive ID on human cremains.
 
weetwoo said:
I think the suicide of his brother could potentially indicate that, if he wasn't directly involved, he may have known at least something about what happened to Susan.

As for if she were cremated - I do think it'd take a lot more than an open campfire to burn a freshly deceased body as indicated above. But on the off chance JP were able to dispose of her body in this way, it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to ever get a a positive ID on human cremains.
Click to expand...

Cremains are indeed difficult to identify, unless there is a tooth, I think?

A friend is a defense attorney (he knows, he knows, he's just good at it & he supports his family well with it) and he once defended a murderer who tried to burn a body. According to him, it is very difficult to burn a body, just too much fluid.

Susan endured so much in this life, and oh what her parents have lived through!

jmho ymmv lrrr
 
If they’ve found her, though, where are her larger bones? Her femurs? Pelvis? How could there just be a couple of ribs and a vertebrae left? But even if it’s an animal, where is the rest of the animal?

What a wonderful crew of people for being willing to put so much work into searching for her! I think they said in one video that they’d removed thousands of pounds of dirt and debris from the mine. That’s an incredible amount of work.
 
If it is Susan's remains, I'd think other remains were outside their perimeter they have searched. Documents would provide areas to search beyond those areas. jmo

I'm not sure if I believe all of this but years ago they said every mine needed searched. So I'm hopeful.
 
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