CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #19

[Seajay]

Also to throw in this in as well



Also how did they manage to get all the way to Dylan's dad's house and not be picked up on any kind of cctv footage ( on this 6 hour car journey ( 12 if they did it there and back ) and then hot-tail it back home in time for the phone call to say Dylan is missing ?

But Mark, the evil genius had this master plan to murder Dylan and somehow not leave a trace of anything anywhere. No clothes, no backpack, no DNA, nothing. If he did it premediated, then he slipped up by taking Dylan to Walmart where he was filmed. If it was on the spur of the moment, he must be really smart and really lucky that he managed to do all this with no cctv catching him doing anything anywhere, with no evidence of a crime whatsoever sans no Dylan. JMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

Dylan could not refuse court-ordered visitation. If he tried that, his mother would be found in contempt of court. I went through a similar situation. My daughter could not refuse a visit until she was 18.

What did your daughter do as a result of not wanting to go? What did you tell her?

I believe if the CP demonstrates a good faith effort to see that visits happen and the child still refuses to the point of kicking and screaming and refusing to get in the car, plane etc... there isn't much that can be done to enforce the court order.

Holding the CP parent responsible with the threat of jail...to manipulate a child into going is wrong.




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[Seajay]

In cases of court ordered visitation, they really don't have a choice. Unless there is an *unusual* type of problem such as sexual or physical abuse; in which case they would need to get CPS involved.

If Mark had physcially abused him, there would be court records and visitation would have been a non-issue. Elaine would have been home free to not send Dylan there at all. Since there was none, that must have meant Mark wasn't abusive towards Dylan, so why would he have gone from one extreme to the other??

 

[Seajay]

I got up today and hoped that it would have a "Found Safe" next to Dylan's name.

 

[mmmagique]

Well, yes it can. My step-granddaughter has refused for 4 years, since she was 9 years old. Consistently. My stepdaughter has never been charged with contempt and has never been in jail for it and has not lost custody of her.

She's very lucky. If the NCP were to push it, she could find herself not only fined and jailed, but also losing custody. Again, as I stated earlier, much depends on the state and the judge, but generally, a nine year old cannot make that type of decision. There are of course, always exceptions.

 

[Seajay]

Like I said, the problem with a child refusing to visit the NCP is that many times, it's because of the influence of the CP. If a child listens to a tirade of negatives about the NCP by the CP, they feel compelled to be on that parents side since they live with them and in some cases, like can be made pretty miserable for the child if they show love or interest in the NCP.

 

[Linda7NJ]

If Mark had physcially abused him, there would be court records and visitation would have been a non-issue. Elaine would have been home free to not send Dylan there at all. Since there was none, that must have meant Mark wasn't abusive towards Dylan, so why would he have gone from one extreme to the other??

That's not always true either. There have been cases where visitation was court ordered for children that were abused.




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[Malini2001]

What did your daughter do as a result of not wanting to go? What did you tell her?

I believe if the CP demonstrates a good faith effort to see that visits happen and the child still refuses to the point of kicking and screaming and refusing to get in the car, plane etc... there isn't much that can be done to enforce the court order.

Holding the CP parent responsible with the threat of jail...to manipulate a child into going is wrong.




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My daughter would cry that she didn't want to go. Some of the time she was crying as she walked out the door with her father. He ignored her. If I said something, he said, "Oh, she stops crying by the time we get to the end of the street."

At one time, he did not try to see her, but wanted even more court-ordered visitation so took me back to court and charged me with not co-operating. That was because I would say no if he called and wanted to pick her up in a few hours. He was required to give 24 hrs notice. The master at court actually found me in contempt, even though the NCP was not following court orders. My atty had to file an appeal to get it off my record.

I was not worried that he would harm her, or I would not have allowed her to go. His problem was that he could not relate to children and I have since come to believe that he had a form of aspergers. She has no relationship with him as an adult.

I would just tell her that she had to go, that we were not allowed to say no. She was an obedient child, but it was so hard to see her cry or be sad. Neither of us (my daughter or I) have much hope that courts make the right decision in custody and visitation cases. Supposedly, it's in the best interest of the child, but I found them very slanted towards the rights of the NCP.

 

[mmmagique]

But Mark, the evil genius had this master plan to murder Dylan and somehow not leave a trace of anything anywhere. No clothes, no backpack, no DNA, nothing. If he did it premediated, then he slipped up by taking Dylan to Walmart where he was filmed. If it was on the spur of the moment, he must be really smart and really lucky that he managed to do all this with no cctv catching him doing anything anywhere, with no evidence of a crime whatsoever sans no Dylan. JMO

:what:
I'm going with lucky for the win, adding the fact that there was extra time (imo) that has never been accounted for. Just like in the case with Baby Ayla, with Hassani Campbell, Haleigh Cummings, Hayley Dunn and Baby Lisa. I wouldn't say any of those people would be invited to join Mensa (that's putting it mildly) but they appear to have gotten away with...whatever it is they did.

 

[asyousay]

But Mark, the evil genius had this master plan to murder Dylan and somehow not leave a trace of anything anywhere. No clothes, no backpack, no DNA, nothing. If he did it premediated, then he slipped up by taking Dylan to Walmart where he was filmed. If it was on the spur of the moment, he must be really smart and really lucky that he managed to do all this with no cctv catching him doing anything anywhere, with no evidence of a crime whatsoever sans no Dylan. JMO

I do not believe he was a genius and have never stated that at all.

I do not know what happened that night but i do believe he " may" of done it .

Just to many things do not add up IMO

And i think he got lucky because LE screwed up (MOO) and he had a insane amount of clean up time (IMO) ... How many people who commit crimes gets a 10 hour clean up window ????

MOO

 

[mmmagique]

What did your daughter do as a result of not wanting to go? What did you tell her?

I believe if the CP demonstrates a good faith effort to see that visits happen and the child still refuses to the point of kicking and screaming and refusing to get in the car, plane etc... there isn't much that can be done to enforce the court order.

Holding the CP parent responsible with the threat of jail...to manipulate a child into going is wrong.




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I've read about that happening. I've read about the police being called out to "enforce" the order. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's wrong. But it does happen, every day. (I'm a member of several legal advice websites, so I probably read about this type of stuff a bit more than many people do.)

 

[mmmagique]

If Mark had physcially abused him, there would be court records and visitation would have been a non-issue. Elaine would have been home free to not send Dylan there at all. Since there was none, that must have meant Mark wasn't abusive towards Dylan, so why would he have gone from one extreme to the other??

Well of course, we don't know that there was never any abuse. We don't know that there was abuse. We only know that (as far as we know) CPS had never been called.

And as referenced earlier, sometimes people do something impulsive. People impulsively ruin their lives all the time.

When I went to paralegal school, one of the attorneys said something that stuck with me all these years, it was basically, many people find themselves paying the price their entire lives for one quick bad decision. Many murders, physical attacks, and acts of thievery, aren't planned at all. Someone just "snaps" and they can never change those few moments...as dearly as they would like to.

 

[mck16]

Does anyone know the history of visitation before this 'court ordered visitation'. ER had not been moved away that long. What were the arrangements when they lived close to each other? And didn't Dylan visit his dad just two months before? And has anyone seen the docs for the 'court ordered visitation'? I think this was just an arrangement that was made after ER moved 6 hours away and added to the divorce decree. I am sure visitation changed when she moved. That is pretty standard procedures. Why was this visit so different? jmo

 

[BritsKate]

I think it's important to remember the rule of thumb in most family courts is the presumption that it is always in the child's best interest to spend time with both parents. Unless Elaine could provide the court with overwhelming evidence doing so wasn't in Dylan's best interest visitation would likely have been ordered.

While kids in CO Dylan's age definitely have a say in custody I've often said visitation is a much different animal. His wishes in visitation may or may not have been considered depending on the judge.

I had to send my kids to visitation with their father despite a lot of evidence he was mentally unstable and abusive (verbally/psychologically to kiddos). My heart would be in my throat the whole time they were gone despite it being supervised eventually. The risk of losing custody to him was the greater threat though. FWIW

 

[Annie1004]

That's not always true either. There have been cases where visitation was court ordered for children that were abused.




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But that doesn't appear to be the case here.

 

[Eileen730]

But Mark, the evil genius had this master plan to murder Dylan and somehow not leave a trace of anything anywhere. No clothes, no backpack, no DNA, nothing. If he did it premediated, then he slipped up by taking Dylan to Walmart where he was filmed. If it was on the spur of the moment, he must be really smart and really lucky that he managed to do all this with no cctv catching him doing anything anywhere, with no evidence of a crime whatsoever sans no Dylan. JMO

I dont think it was premediated and I do not think Him Genius! I do think he accidently did harm to his son. It it turns out this is the case it will be murder cause he tried to cover it up.
I think he drinks too much and losses it when he gets angry. I think this is what happend here. He never arrived at that house with Dylan that evening is my guess. He had ample time to cover it up. Elaine and Corey didnt harm him
he didnt run away and I do not think a stranger went in that house and took this child and left with all his things and a fishing pole.
I do not for a second believe this boy went to sleep early that night without texting or being on the computer No way!!!!


All JMO

 

[azgrandma]

And there's the rub. Why didn't he refuse to go, then? Why didn't he assert his rights and just put his foot down and say, "I'm not going and you can't make me!!" As Linda said, nobody is going to put a kicking, screaming teenager on a plane and send him 5 hours away.

Maybe he didn't want to see Dad, but he obviously wanted to be with his friends. So whether he wanted to be with his dad or not is not the issue. The issue is, he went and then he disappeared. Maybe he was forced to go. Maybe he went willingly, or grudgingly. Who knows? If his mom says he didn't want to go, then why did she make him? At 13, he has the right to refuse, if he wants to.

A 13 yo does not have a right to refuse to go. They can express their wishes but it's not a right. also, not wanting to go does not man that his option was kicking and screaming, you don't see kids that age throwing temper tantrums like that, perhaps pouting, but who's to sayhe didn't want to go to dads and was just angry and dealing with it vs kicking and screaming

 

[Eileen730]

If Mark had physcially abused him, there would be court records and visitation would have been a non-issue. Elaine would have been home free to not send Dylan there at all. Since there was none, that must have meant Mark wasn't abusive towards Dylan, so why would he have gone from one extreme to the other??

I do not think Mark physically abused him. I think the fear this family has is how Mark gets when he drinks. I think this was why his brother said we are only a phone call away. There have obviously been issues with drunkeness in the past and ya know it sure take a while and alot of drinking to get to that point. Id be very afraid to leave my child if thats the case.

All JMO
I think the main problem is between ER and MR.

 

[LotusPawprint]

Right.

Not arguing with what you said, but we all know people who do stupid things and don't consider the consequences down the road. People who do things on a whim, out of anger, resentment, whatever, even knowing they're breaking the law but at that moment, just too worked up to think about the wrong they're doing and what it will cost them later.

If every person in the world followed the law, or even had the foresight to think before they act, we wouldn't have so many overcrowded prisons.

I don't know if that theory of someone hiding Dylan is plausible or not, but other parents have tried it and a few have probably succeeded, for awhile.

Reading your posts on this scenario, I'm finding it plausible. On the surface, it seems like an absurd plan for someone to carry out and even as one tries to make sense of it, it's still seems ridiculous. But I think that's the point... most crimes don't make sense.
No matter what happened to Dylan, there was a crime committed. No matter who was/is involved, that person(s) is guilty of a crime.

I am struggling to make several pieces of the puzzle fit with the idea of someone known to Dylan hiding him, even with the knowledge that it was likely not well thought out. I still can't figure out what the end game is and how long this is supposed to go on. He's 13 and can speak. Eventually he'd have to come out of hiding and he'll be debriefed and he would tell everyone what happened and those responsible would be held accountable and be in serious trouble. I understand in this scenario, the more time goes by the panic gets worse but those involved would be digging themselves a deeper grave.
I also can't figure out how anyone associated with Dylan who may be involved in this kind of plan would be completely off the radar of LE/FBI and not checked out, cleared, interviewed, etc. If LE thinks there's someone they need to speak with and can't locate that person, I'd think this would be a time to involve the public.
All JMO.
But I appreciate your posts as they give me something else to think about.

 

[demetra]

There is a very heartfelt post by Denise (friend). Also states Dad was by to pick up bracelets and flyers to pass out to truckers.


https://www.facebook.com/FindMissingDylanRedwine

Thanks for posting that nice to see dads name mentioned..