CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #46

[Seajay]

My problem with the fishing pole is this: How would Cory even know where the fishing pole was at Mark's house? I mean, Cory might have seen it in the garage the last time he was there, but it could have been moved since then, into the house. This is another one of those things where you have to take someone's word for it.

Two things: First off, I have to wonder when Cory was last at Marks to be so positive as to where the fishing pole was when Dylan was there

and I had always thought maybe Mark brought the pole in the house in anticipation of Dylan's visit. Especially since Dylan came in a day later than expected. Mark had time to get things out for his visit. IMO

 

[deoneta]

Snipped for space saving
And, it was probably 2:30 by the time I realized that Dylan still is not home and so I’m thinkin’ well, if he ain’t gonna’ return my text messages and I ain’t hearing my phone ringing ‘cos he ain’t calling me, I
need to go find that boy.


Dr. Phil:
At 1:30 you wake up, he’s still not there?

MR:
Right.

Dr. Phil:
Did something go off in your head then?

MR:
Absolutely. This is when I’m calling him on his cell phone. I’m sending him text messages. I’m trying to communicate to him… you know… at some point… I start realizing that… you know this is not like Dylan.

1:30, 2:30...... what's the difference. I ask everyone because I truly do not know the answer... is that a BIG deal to be off by one hour or not ? I lean towards maybe it's not that big a deal myself. I mean every hour is precious when your child is missing. I'm not suggesting that . I'm asking if MR having a 2:30 wakeup time from nap, vs a 1:30 wakeup time from nap in a later statement is that big a deal or not? Some people speak in exacts and other do not. Could it be it was more like 1:15 or 1:45 and he just is one who rounds off every time to top or bottom of hour ?[/QUOTE]

In one instance he says it first "hit" him that there was a problem when he wakes up from his nap. In other instance, it doesn't "hit" him until he's talked with R and N. Sometimes he says he texted Dylan all morning. Other times he says he started calling and texting all afternoon (allowing for the nap of whatever duration) These statements just don't come across as being from genuine memory to me. All MOO

 

[catswhiskers]

Yet I totally agree with you concerning the above happening in an adults world.

But for everything to have taken place the way it has in the world of a Thrirteen year old ?

Why would a child be immune from having a day where everything just seems to go wrong? My teens often think they have the worst days in history. When little ones in my class are teary about their misfortunes I often read them the picture book called 'Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day'

Obviously whatever happened to Dylan eventually is much more serious than the possible run of events which led up to that, and I am in no way trying to minimise that.

Again, I am NOT making light of anything surrounding Dylan's case. Nor defending anyone either - IMO it's offensive to be continually labeled a defender or supporter (or worse) just because you can see or speculate about other possibilities.
:moo:

 

[Seajay]

I used he word "excuses". I was referring to myself making excuses. I apologize if it offended anyone. Yes, I believe that everyone's opinion is valid.

No, it wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular, it was sort of a general statement that here "excuses" are actually opinions.

 

[SCHMAE]

My problem with the fishing pole is this: How would Cory even know where the fishing pole was at Mark's house? I mean, Cory might have seen it in the garage the last time he was there, but it could have been moved since then, into the house. This is another one of those things where you have to take someone's word for it.

The rest of the family did not move up to CO Springs until summer sometime. Before that they lived in the same area and it's possible CR went to his dad's house from time to time. Perhaps he knows his dad's not much on fishing unless the boys are there and that he works a lot of town so that the fishing pole not being in the garage, where presumably , the poles are kept , would be an educated guess. Personally I find the pole has about zilch to do with finding Dylan

 

[song22]

Two things: First off, I have to wonder when Cory was last at Marks to be so positive as to where the fishing pole was when Dylan was there

and I had always thought maybe Mark brought the pole in the house in anticipation of Dylan's visit. Especially since Dylan came in a day later than expected. Mark had time to get things out for his visit. IMO

So, then MR said the fishing pole has still not been found. Do you think Dylan took it and all his stuff and tried to go fishing? He must not have been abducted in the house with his stuff and fishing pole. Maybe he tried to hitch? He must have gotten into a vehicle willingly, or else the pole would be laying on the street. Or do you think he walked all the way to the lake and fell in? I guess, if we believe that MR is right and the fishing pole was in the house and then it was gone after Dylan was gone--it must have gone with Dylan? So, in that case it's most likely hitchiking or accident? I have my own theory, obviously, but I would like to hear what other people are thinking.

 

[mixologist74]

I do think that we have to take into account the timing of both instances... People often do things while still in shock that are out of character. It could also be that CR, like ER both stated, that they didn't want to believe at that time that MR could have been involved.

As for CR's reactions on the national TV show - well, I can understand that after 4 months of not *communicating* with MR that his anger and frustration would be at an all-time high. That CR has done a whole lot of soul-searching, and re-analyzing many things throughout his whole childhood. I see his anger at this point to be extremely righteous - it has been provoked over the last 4 months by MR's unwillingness to communicate any further with him.

I think it's horrid that some (not just speaking about people at WS in referencing the following) are judging CR's behavior because he really is still a child in many ways in relation to this case - the age of 18 notwithstanding because a person's mind doesn't really stop maturing until they are about 24yo, and some take even longer due to past experiences in their lives.

As for DR not being a victim of MR - even if he was not missing right now, he would still be a victim of things MR has done in the past. He would still be struggling with some pretty heavy issues right now as a result of actions MR took himself, and is completely responsible for on his own.

To say that CR is not a victim of this man's behavior as well, is offensive to me - personally. A child does not harbor that kind of animosity towards a parent without some very serious things behind it. I know this, because I have felt this way in the past. I was also asked why I would stay in any contact at all with my father when he abused me, but I was still struggling with letting go as my Mom and my young sister were still in his grasp.

I can't judge CR at all for his behavior, as I completely understand that kind of pain and rage - even if his little brother wasn't missing. Add in that he is missing, and that MR's behavior is more than a little strange, and knowing what CR knows about MR's typical behavior even more than we do, I totally understand why he is so angry. All he wants is for his father to tell whatever truth there is, and stop being so evasive about everything.

I'll stop here because I could go on and on defending CR's behaviors and emotions, as I can personally identify with many of them. The thought that CR is somehow in the wrong for expressing his anger and rage is beyond my comprehension though.*

* Even though I do understand how others could see it quite differently. Much of my reaction is based upon my personal experiences, and I always try to keep that in mind...

As always, all of the above is MOO! :cow:

BBM.

<modsnip>

Perhaps Mark has told the truth as he knows it, and has nothing more to say, and Cory's combative attitude is the part of the reason that Mark and Cory cannot communicate?

:cow:

 

[deoneta]

If we are analyzing the post event (Dylan missing) behavior of one of Dylan's family, why not all? Everyone's behavior can be examined without disparaging them. And to do so does not negate feelings of empathy or sympathy for the pain they may be feeling. It seems to me, that it's okay to look at only one person's post event behavior with an eye for clues, when in my opinion, more people close to Dylan need looked at as well. Either we look at all post behavior or none or I find another place to explore that part of my curiosity in this case.

I believe it's okay to discuss anything in MSM articles and interviews and Dr. Phil. I could be wrong, but that's how I take it. All MOO

 

[mixologist74]

That is incorrect regarding what MR stated, and what CR stated in regard to the fishing pole.

MR stated that it was "always by the door, or by the TV"

CR stated that it was "always in the garage", and how did MR notice that it was gone before he noticed anything about his bike or footprints.

MR is the one who stated the fishing pole was "gone", MR is the one who insists that DR must have taken it with him. MR is the one that continues to point out that the pole was "never found".

CR never stated that there was any fishing pole missing or taken. That was all MR, and CR has only questioned why this has such a big meaning in MR's portrayal of events.

I don't understand how CR's comments have anything to do with this, or how people* could think that CR was the one who said the fishing pole was missing in the first place...

* people in general... if there is an explanation, or perhaps a link to where CR was actually the one who suggested that the fishing pole was gone before MR mentioned it, then I could understand it. I am looking more for an explanation than trying to be mean...

As always, all of the above is MOO! :cow:
I fully admit that I am a bit biased when it comes to CR's actions, and not judging him for his anger, as I remember my own feelings when I was his age that were directed towards my father... I think he's been remarkably restrained - especially being a male (not intending to be sexist - just that I think it would be harder to control one's physical response when it is man vs. man and in my situation it was a short girl like me against a father twice+ my size).
I don't however, think that my bias has clouded my judgement as to who said what...

Thanks for the correction.

IIRC, there was no snow, nor had it rained for a while, so why would there be any footprints?

 

[Seajay]

BBM.

<modsnip>

Perhaps Mark has told the truth as he knows it, and has nothing more to say, and Cory's combative attitude is the part of the reason that Mark and Cory cannot communicate?

:cow:

I've said that a couple of times. ER and CR keep wanting answers. What if Mark has given them every answer he has and he has no more answers, he doesn't know any more??? He can't be expected to start making stuff up just to pacify Cory. IF things happened the way Mark said they did (and I'm not saying they did, just saying IF they did) then there are no more answers. He picked Dylan up, they went shopping, they ate, they came home, they watched a movie, they went to bed, he got up, Dylan was still sleeping, he tried to wake him up, Dylan wouldn't get up, he had to leave for his appointments and errands. He came back, Dylan's gone and so is everything he owned.

If this happened as he said it did, what other possible answers could have he???

 

[song22]

1:30, 2:30...... what's the difference. I ask everyone because I truly do not know the answer... is that a BIG deal to be off by one hour or not ? I lean towards maybe it's not that big a deal myself. I mean every hour is precious when your child is missing. I'm not suggesting that . I'm asking if MR having a 2:30 wakeup time from nap, vs a 1:30 wakeup time from nap in a later statement is that big a deal or not? Some people speak in exacts and other do not. Could it be it was more like 1:15 or 1:45 and he just is one who rounds off every time to top or bottom of hour ?

In one instance he says it first "hit" him that there was a problem when he wakes up from his nap. In other instance, it doesn't "hit" him until he's talked with R and N. Sometimes he says he texted Dylan all morning. Other times he says he started calling and texting all afternoon (allowing for the nap of whatever duration) These statements just don't come across as being from genuine memory to me. All MOO[/QUOTE]

I don't think an hour or two discrepancy means much. But the latter examples do strike me as strange. He sometimes uses the exact same phrases when recalling things at different times. Like he says he texted Dylan on the way home and was something like "Hey Dude, you up yet.." etc etc. and then on Dr. Phil he says he texted those exact same phrases later in the day. By the time of the Dr. Phil show you would have known word for word exactly what you texted and when. You said how I feel, they don't seem like genuine memory to me, either.

 

[Seajay]

Thanks for the correction.

IIRC, there was no snow, nor had it rained for a while, so why would there be any footprints?

I always had to wonder that myself. Doesn't matter if you have a distinctive shoe print if there is nothing to leave one in.

 

[mijamawi]

Why would a child be immune from having a day where everything just seems to go wrong? My teens often think they have the worst days in history. When little ones in my class are teary about their misfortunes I often read them the picture book called 'Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day'

Obviously whatever happened to Dylan eventually is much more serious than the possible run of events which led up to that, and I am in no way trying to minimise that.

Again, I am NOT making light of anything surrounding Dylan's case. Nor defending anyone either - IMO it's offensive to be continually labeled a defender or supporter (or worse) just because you can see or speculate about other possibilities.
:moo:

Just jumping from your post.... When my 12 yr old has one of those days he says it's like the movie The Truman Show when all the cars purposely pull out at just that perfect time and so many "coincidences" happen, it's like someone is orchestrating it.

 

[mixologist74]

Two things: First off, I have to wonder when Cory was last at Marks to be so positive as to where the fishing pole was when Dylan was there

and I had always thought maybe Mark brought the pole in the house in anticipation of Dylan's visit. Especially since Dylan came in a day later than expected. Mark had time to get things out for his visit. IMO

Thank you for your comment. This is what I was wondering about as well. Perhaps Mark had planned a fishing trip or knew that Dylan would want to fish with his friends, and got out the pole in anticipation.

 

[mixologist74]

So, then MR said the fishing pole has still not been found. Do you think Dylan took it and all his stuff and tried to go fishing? He must not have been abducted in the house with his stuff and fishing pole. Maybe he tried to hitch? He must have gotten into a vehicle willingly, or else the pole would be laying on the street. Or do you think he walked all the way to the lake and fell in? I guess, if we believe that MR is right and the fishing pole was in the house and then it was gone after Dylan was gone--it must have gone with Dylan? So, in that case it's most likely hitchiking or accident? I have my own theory, obviously, but I would like to hear what other people are thinking.

I think that anything is a possibility, at this point.

 

[Redhead72]

Thanks for the correction.

IIRC, there was no snow, nor had it rained for a while, so why would there be any footprints?

NP... I was thinking perhaps you had just mixed up who said what as well... just so you know.

In re to the footprints:
I am still rather confused about that part of it myself. Perhaps others can fill in some of the blanks. All I know is that CR asked why MR would notice the fishing pole being gone, before his bike, or before footprints, which I would assume is referencing something MR has mentioned previously about MR realizing he should go and look for DR on Monday afternoon.

I don't think LE has ever mentioned footprints, or lack of them, but there's something up about footprints - otherwise I don't know why they would keep being referred to whether there were any, or not...

Also, if there was loose dirt in front of the house/along the driveway, up to the front door, on carpeting then a distinctive footprint could have been seen for a while - at least until it snowed which iirc was on the 2nd day of the search.

 

[song22]

I've said that a couple of times. ER and CR keep wanting answers. What if Mark has given them every answer he has and he has no more answers, he doesn't know any more??? He can't be expected to start making stuff up just to pacify Cory. IF things happened the way Mark said they did (and I'm not saying they did, just saying IF they did) then there are no more answers. He picked Dylan up, they went shopping, they ate, they came home, they watched a movie, they went to bed, he got up, Dylan was still sleeping, he tried to wake him up, Dylan wouldn't get up, he had to leave for his appointments and errands. He came back, Dylan's gone and so is everything he owned.

If this happened as he said it did, what other possible answers could have he???

Then I would say on Dr. Phil in front of the whole world, "ER, Cory, I am so so sorry that this has happened. Cory, You are my son. I love you no matter what. You can tell me you hate me. You can scream at me. I know how bad you are huting and I am your father and I can take it. I know you are angry and we have some things to work through. I know I'm not perfect, but I will do everything in my power to help bring Dylan home."

 

[JBean]

If we are analyzing the post event (Dylan missing) behavior of one of Dylan's family, why not all? Everyone's behavior can be examined without disparaging them. And to do so does not negate feelings of empathy or sympathy for the pain they may be feeling. It seems to me, that it's okay to look at only one person's post event behavior with an eye for clues, when in my opinion, more people close to Dylan need looked at as well. Either we look at all post behavior or none or I find another place to explore that part of my curiosity in this case.

If the mods have ruled that only certain people are allowed to be sleuthed or examined- then those are the rules and there are good reasons for them.
If you have questions on this topic please direct it to a moderator and not on an open thread; this is not something that is open for discussion.
thank you.

 

[RANCH]

The rest of the family did not move up to CO Springs until summer sometime. Before that they lived in the same area and it's possible CR went to his dad's house from time to time. Perhaps he knows his dad's not much on fishing unless the boys are there and that he works a lot of town so that the fishing pole not being in the garage, where presumably , the poles are kept , would be an educated guess. Personally I find the pole has about zilch to do with finding Dylan

BBM

I agree with this.

Unless something comes up that shows Dylan took that pole to go fishing on Monday morning I will keep it's disappearance on the back burner. MOO.

 

[scorekeeper]

Thank you for your comment. This is what I was wondering about as well. Perhaps Mark had planned a fishing trip or knew that Dylan would want to fish with his friends, and got out the pole in anticipation.

Mark never mentioned taking Dylan and his friends fishing.

Mark did mention perhaps they could go bowling or something.

To me the fishing pole is neither here nor there (LE has not mentioned it as something people should be looking for - that I am aware)



JMO....