CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #50

[Ausgirl]

Just clarifying, re my comments on Mark's statement - those who pointed out the self-oriented nature of his sentences hit the nail on the head.

Of course I was not suggesting he shouldn't use personal pronouns! What I was pointing out is that his words are incredibly focused on Mark himself and not his son. Me, me, me. It all comes across as very narcissistic and self-concerned (all that 'grouping' he does by including himself repeatedly in the 'many others', and all the 'myselfs'). Like what he's worried about is what people think of HIM.

Being that most of us (I presume) cannot physically get out and search for Dylan, discussion of what information is released is all we have! And that's what forums are for, no? Discussion? I am not annoyed a bit by the back and forth, and all the various analyses and opinions floating through threads like this. That's what the thread is for! If it starts to make me angry, I can always step away from the discussion...

Anyway, I think Mark shows enough bile toward his ex-wife to put him squarely on my radar as a possible perp. That it's mostly passive-aggressive might just be that it's in the public spotlight -- of course he can't be directly aggressive. But he HAS to get those slings in, doesn't he? Time after time.

His idyllic statements concerning his former relationship with Dylan and how close they used to be, combined with the fact Dylan vanished at his house, combined with the obvious bitterness he feels toward his ex-wife and the boys' attitudes toward him more recently (with the subtext: she turned them against him, I feel), combined with Dylan's not really wanting to be at his dad's (painful, but what reaction might that cause in a narcissist with an axe to grind??), combined with the incredibly self-interested statements he makes, combined with a failed poly (if indeed he failed it?), combined with the inconsistencies in Mark's statements -- all of it weighs up to me against the man as far as the likelihood of him being involved goes.

JMO.

 

[Dee10]

I am waiting for LE to give new direction in this case since last we heard they were still investigating MR. I don't know if he is guilty or not & many other people have stated the same. I do have suspicions. Personally, I don't attempt to defend or make excuses for anyone that is under (heavy so to speak) scrutiny from LE on a missing case as they know the evidence & have more experience then I ever will have. I see this as a strong group with varying opinions; I get a chuckle when I hear word "judgement" as if anyone of us has that power...we only have individual opinions & not everyone is going to agree. We all care about Dylan & with more people coming into the area hopefully new clues will be found.

 

[cluciano63]

Anyone who thinks that people "want" MR to be the perp are just plain wrong, IMO. What I believe is most desired is for him to be officially cleared by LE. That won't happen, so it is frustrating, especially since so many things do not make sense, from the phone stoppage to the nap by MR, to his still-casual "smack him on the head" attitude when he finally gets around to saying, oh yeah my child is missing, and not even going into his manner of "answering" questions and seeming to spend more effort and stamina in thinking up ways to get in digs at his ex than anything much to do with Dylan. I have never quite recovered from his litany of ways Dylan was probably responsible, i.e falling into lakes, running off to hang where known sex offenders live, etc.
Did he ever offer up Dylan being eaten by a bear? If not, that is all he hasn't said. And yet he then claims he believes ER took Dylan. Even Dr. Phil, who has had world-class lunatics on his show, had his eyes pop put of his head at that one.

No one, IMO, wants his father to have harmed or killed Dylan, but this man has provided plenty of reasons to raise eyebrows and really, that is all it amounts to here on WS. We are not keeping LE from investigating sex offenders, tips or neighborhood creeps by our suspicions. If it makes some posters feel "above" others by "keeping an open mind" so be it. My mind is 5% open to a stranger abduction and will be 100% when LE can clear MR.

 

[cattlekate]

IMO, he was acting like a sociopath, and seemed to enjoy toying with her on that show. They are way beyond mediation, imo.

"Although several attempts have been made, I would like to publicly invite Dylan's mother too mediation services being offered. I believe the more we all work together to bring Dylan home the more successful his safe return will be."

IMHO, this statement serves two purposes - to shift blame to Elaine and publically humiliate her AND use "mediation" as a platform to intimidate, blame, scold, derise, taunt, and smirk. All things I saw Mark do on Dr. Phil.

Mediation in Colorado family courts frequently does NOT happen face-to-face. The parents are in separate rooms. The mediator asks questions then walks down the hall and talks to the other parent. The mediator is trained to accomplish a "goal" and filter out insults, intimidation and digs. So how would Mark react if Elaine agreed to mediation and Mark showed up and Elaine was in a different room? Would he still do it?

 

[RANCH]

"Although several attempts have been made, I would like to publicly invite Dylan's mother too mediation services being offered. I believe the more we all work together to bring Dylan home the more successful his safe return will be."

IMHO, this statement serves two purposes - to shift blame to Elaine and publically humiliate her AND use "mediation" as a platform to intimidate, blame, scold, derise, taunt, and smirk. All things I saw Mark do on Dr. Phil.

Mediation in Colorado family courts frequently does NOT happen face-to-face. The parents are in separate rooms. The mediator asks questions then walks down the hall and talks to the other parent. The mediator is trained to accomplish a "goal" and filter out insults, intimidation and digs. So how would Mark react if Elaine agreed to mediation and Mark showed up and Elaine was in a different room? Would he still do it?

BBM
Couldn't they just agree to meet face to face with a mediator to help?

 

[cattlekate]

BBM
Couldn't they just agree to meet face to face with a mediator to help?

Ranch - How would "mediation" (about WHAT?) help anything but accomplish the things I listed - intimidation, taunting, blaming, smirking? I assert Mark gets a thrill out of believing he is in control of Elaine. Face-to-face mediation will further that thrill.

In Colorado, the first thing a court-appointed mediator does is familiarize himself/herself with the case. If it is suspected one party will use mediation for intimidation - the rooms are split. Or, a parent can request separate rooms and it is DONE.

The question I posited was - what would Mark do if he showed up and realized they would be in separate rooms? Would he come up with an excuse and walk out?

My suggestion is that Elaine agree to "mediation" and then let's see what happens when Mark shows up and they are in separate rooms. BTW - EVERYTHING a parent says in mediation is on the record.

 

[RANCH]

Ranch - How would "mediation" (about WHAT?) help anything but accomplish the things I listed - intimidation, taunting, blaming, smirking? I assert Mark gets a thrill out of believing he is in control of Elaine. Face-to-face mediation will further that thrill.

In Colorado, the first thing a court-appointed mediator does is familiarize himself/herself with the case. If it is suspected one party will use mediation for intimidation - the rooms are split. Or, a parent can request separate rooms and it is DONE.

The question I posited was - what would Mark do if he showed up and realized they would be in separate rooms? Would he come up with an excuse and walk out?

My suggestion is that Elaine agree to "mediation" and then let's see what happens when Mark shows up and they are in separate rooms. BTW - EVERYTHING a parent says in mediation is on the record.

Is this going to be a court ordered mediation? Why would a court be involved? If Elaine feels that Mark will only try to intimidate, taunt and blame her why doesn't she just explain that and say that she doesn't want to talk to him.

I don't see why using separate rooms should even be attempted. That's not talking to each other. MOO.

 

[Bayou Mistress]

Mediation
Mediation is an informal and confidential way for people to resolve disputes with the help of a neutral mediator who is trained to help people discuss their differences. The mediator does not decide who is right or wrong or issue a decision. Instead, the mediator helps the parties work out their own solutions to problems.

http://www.eeoc.gov/employees/mediation.cfm

Above is only one source, but I have not found one anywhere that says the mediation is part of the record. In fact, many mediators destroy their notes after concluding a case. Part of me wishes that EH and MR could really hear each other, but I have diminished hope on that. I do find it interesting that MR still thinks it would be a helpful thing to do. But maybe that's because he has never felt heard or even been given the chance to respond in a rational way without being interrupted and accused.

 

[ColdHands]

Mediation is most likely the wrong word, IMO. Facilitator would probably be better. An intermediary that has flexibility to uncover what the issues are, rather than carrying the role of trying to resolve a known dispute.

Detached, unbiased, able to keep a conversation on track.

IMO - the use here would be to get them to collaborate on strategies to find Dylan - searches, public awareness, fundraising, etc.

And IMO the reason to do this is to get MR talking. If he's guilty he's not going to confess it IMO but he may accidentally drop information. If he's not guilty he may have more information to add to the searches.

All of this is IMO.

 

[cattlekate]

I don't see why using separate rooms should even be attempted. That's not talking to each other. MOO.

Because if Mark cannot talk to Elaine directly, he cannot intimidate, blame, taunt, frighten, and smirk. That is what he did on Dr. Phil. Or attempted to do. A Colorado-certified mediator filters those things out.

 

[ColdHands]

This is not meant in anyway as a challenge. I'm trying to picture this. Could you describe how you think an interaction like that would progress and what you think the outcomes would be? Also - what would the ideal outcome be?

Thanks in advance.

Bah I did hit Quote. This question is for cattlekate.

 

[RANCH]

Because if Mark cannot talk to Elaine directly, he cannot intimidate, blame, taunt, frighten, and smirk. That is what he did on Dr. Phil. Or attempted to do. A Colorado-certified mediator filters those things out.

Mark attempted to do those things on the Dr Phil show? So your saying he was unsuccessful? Why would he be any more successful with everyone in the same room and a mediator on hand to keep that from happening?

 

[cluciano63]

As long as both parents talk to LE as required, I don't see how it helps find Dylan to sit in a room with a mediator. This couple, IMO, is not going to get to a place where they can have rational conversations. They have accused each other of taking Dylan. There is quite evident hatred between them.

I do not think that Kaine and Desiree speak any longer, not once Desiree learned how unstable Kyron's house with Kaine really was. Either way, Kyron remains missing three years later, despite his parents coming together for a year or more and working together in every possible way. Maybe they still touch base once in a while, who knows. I just don't see how it helped, or harmed the case either way.

Mediation is the least of MR's issues, if you ask me. He is using the issue of mediation as another tool with which to jab at ER.

If either parent gets an idea about a possible suspect or scenario, it is LE they need to talk to. I doubt they know much about one another's lives anyway.

 

[rebeccaeee]

I fail to see what Elaine and MR talking would accomplish at this point. Any details he might have that are relevant to an investigation should be shared with LE. Unless there is information he has not yet shared and suddenly feels the need to, I don't see what talking with each other would achieve. The time to talk was when Dylan first went missing but MR chose to text instead. Texting may have been an ingenious way to navigate a messy divorce but it is not a helpful tool in a crisis. Elaine and Cory have repeatedly stated that MR has blocked their calls. I do not believe, as MR says in his statement, that the sooner they come together to communicate, the sooner Dylan returns home safely. The only way that happens is if MR has him stashed and is using the price of a visit from Elaine as ransom. In no way do I think that is what has happened. Nope, i think the more LE searches and investigates, the closer this comes to resolution. I have faith Dylan will be found one way or another and I have faith LE will get results. I do not think any of this is dependent on Dylan's parents communicating with each other, with or without a mediator. IMO.

 

[cattlekate]

Coldhands: I will answer your question and then go to bed. You asked what the interaction would be like and what would be the outcome.

The interaction would be this: Mark would walk into a hallway of empty rooms and not be able to intimidate, frighten, get a thrill from, accuse, smirk, and taunt Elaine. He would just go into a room by himself and a mediator would walk back and forth from the rooms (floors, actually), with whatever Mark wanted to "mediate." However, a Colorado mediator would filter all intimidations, accusations, smirks, and taunts.

I don't know what Mark's goal is - he's the one who just released a public statement accusing Elaine of not mediating. So within the Colorado system - Mark can mediate and try to get to his "goal" - but he will not see Elaine nor will a Colorado-certified mediator transmit intimidations, accusations, smirks, and taunts. I am questioning if he would engage in such "mediation" if he showed up and realized he could not see Elaine. The outcome, I believe, would be what I saw he did on Dr. Phil if he couldn't control the situation. Find an excuse and bail.

 

[La Louve]

I fail to see what Elaine and MR talking would accomplish at this point. Any details he might have that are relevant to an investigation should be shared with LE. Unless there is information he has not yet shared and suddenly feels the need to, I don't see what talking with each other would achieve. The time to talk was when Dylan first went missing but MR chose to text instead. Texting may have been an ingenious way to navigate a messy divorce but it is not a helpful tool in a crisis. Elaine and Cory have repeatedly stated that MR has blocked their calls. I do not believe, as MR says in his statement, that the sooner they come together to communicate, the sooner Dylan returns home safely. The only way that happens is if MR has him stashed and is using the price of a visit from Elaine as ransom. In no way do I think that is what has happened. Nope, i think the more LE searches and investigates, the closer this comes to resolution. I have faith Dylan will be found one way or another and I have faith LE will get results. I do not think any of this is dependent on Dylan's parents communicating with each other, with or without a mediator. IMO.

BBM
Or the price of a reduced child support obligation.

I still consider that a possible motive.

 

[cluciano63]

BBM
Or the price of a reduced child support obligation.

I still consider that a possible motive.

Well, considering he would be in prison, that would be the least of his worries for a while.

But I think it is has been too long for that. He would need help and I have trouble imagining anyone willing to go to prison for Mark Redwine.

 

[La Louve]

Well, considering he would be in prison, that would be the least of his worries for a while.

But I think it is has been too long for that. He would need help and I have trouble imagining anyone willing to go to prison for Mark Redwine.

Quite possibly. But then again, most people committing crimes don't think they are going to get caught.

I dunno what to make of MR's mediation comment. I've looked at it from different angles and it still sets my teeth on edge.

 

[cluciano63]

Quite possibly. But then again, most people committing crimes don't think they are going to get caught.

I dunno what to make of MR's mediation comment. I've looked at it from different angles and it still sets my teeth on edge.

Oh I don't doubt the idea, but the feasibility of actually hiding Dylan for six months seems very unlikely.

 

[catswhiskers]

Because if Mark cannot talk to Elaine directly, he cannot intimidate, blame, taunt, frighten, and smirk. That is what he did on Dr. Phil. Or attempted to do. A Colorado-certified mediator filters those things out.

bbm I recall Elaine doing those very things on Dr P - seriously, MR barely got to finish an answer throughout the entire time he was onstage with Elaine, and most of what he uttered was in response to Elaine's repeated accusations. Again, it is extraordinary how we all perceive things differently.

I said this earlier, but a trained mediator would not allow this to happen. Dr P did not in any way act as a mediator. Parties are spoken to privately when necessary, and together when possible - the mediator acts as a facilitator and intermediary when necessary. A trained mediator would avoid confrontation at all costs, and not even allow a whiff of it during a session. IMO Dr. P was an extension of the fb pages which have the intention of "calling out", accusing, interrogating, and pressuring MR into a desired response.

So this is in no way the purpose of mediation - ie to get an admission of guilt. I could see the value of mediation if it allowed MR to relate the events of his and Dylan's activities without interruption, or with genuine non-accusatory questions asked (though it's probably too late for that now). Having a reasonable conversation about their shared missing child should be possible. I have never seen the point of one parent continuing to negate or cast doubt on the veracity of every single thing the other claims to be true when they are no longer living together. Any child of divorce would probably tell you - different houses, different rules.

A good example would be the Nick vs MTv point. When my teens are with me we watch tv and online shows together most of the time. When they are with my ex they watch action and fantasy movies that have not always been age appropriate, and have done since imo they were way to young to do so. It's always been a sore point with me. When MR answered defensively about what Dylan watches with him - I could relate.
:moo:



“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
Stephen Hawking