Identified! CO - Gunnison Nat’l Forest, 3 Decomposed Bodies, long term camping near Gold Creek Campground, July 2023 - Rebecca & Christine Vance & Boy, 14

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ch_13 said:
There's a hiking trail that starts at Gold Creek Campground and goes to Henry Lake.

I used the preview feature of AllTrails to get a 3D view of the area. I think it gives a better idea of the ruggedness of the terrain compared to the satellite maps on Google. I believe you need an AllTrails account to access the preview, but I took a screenshot below. The Gold Coast Campground is located at the bottom of the pic where the green line begins.
View attachment 435098
Click to expand...
RSBM

You know, ch_13, I was thinking about your interpretation of LE's statement regarding where the 3 campers' site was located, and got to wondering about another possible COD if they had camped up that steep narrow trail. Asphyxiation?

We know the snowfall / snowpack Jan-Apr was far above normal in that area. That could lead to avalanches small and large all over the mountain slopes. I presume a narrow gully like the trail you found, might be a conduit to funneling a concentrated amount of avalanching snow. Even from a small or moderate avalanche from higher up that slope.

So... what if the campers were swamped by an avalanche while in their small tent sleeping or perhaps waiting for a snowstorm to pass. Maybe one camper went outside the tent to see what the loud rumbling noise was... I am not an avalanche expert but from what I know, being covered by 10-15+ feet of dense snow is a death sentence by asphyxiation unless quickly rescued from above.

Being covered by that much snow might explain the mummification or slow rate of decompostion. It would also explain why the campsite may not have been visible until the summer this year.

All speculation and IMO.
 
RedHaus said:
RSBM

You know, ch_13, I was thinking about your interpretation of LE's statement regarding where the 3 campers' site was located, and got to wondering about another possible COD if they had camped up that steep narrow trail. Asphyxiation?

We know the snowfall / snowpack Jan-Apr was far above normal in that area. That could lead to avalanches small and large all over the mountain slopes. I presume a narrow gully like the trail you found, might be a conduit to funneling a concentrated amount of avalanching snow. Even from a small or moderate avalanche from higher up that slope.

So... what if the campers were swamped by an avalanche while in their small tent sleeping or perhaps waiting for a snowstorm to pass. Maybe one camper went outside the tent to see what the loud rumbling noise was... I am not an avalanche expert but from what I know, being covered by 10-15+ feet of dense snow is a death sentence by asphyxiation unless quickly rescued from above.

Being covered by that much snow might explain the mummification or slow rate of decompostion. It would also explain why the campsite may not have been visible until the summer this year.

All speculation and IMO.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, I don't necessarily think they were camped up the steep trail. It's possible that you're correct that they were in the valley by the developed campground, but I just think that in order to hide from interlopers they were farther away from the road than 1,000 feet. I see a lot of hikers with dogs in the trail pics, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were more like 1/2 mile away.

As far as them being overcome by an avalanche, I wouldn't rule it out. However, I would think an avalanche would have disturbed the area, making the manner of death obvious. Authorities described the campsite as having "personal belongings and tarps at the scene, and a lean-to built from local logs over a firepit." I would think they would have mentioned it if items were scattered about or looked like they had been moved far from the camp.
 
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ch_13 said:
Just to clarify, I don't necessarily think they were camped up the steep trail. It's possible that you're correct that they were in the valley by the developed campground, but I just think that in order to hide from interlopers they were farther away from the road than 1,000 feet. I see a lot of hikers with dogs in the trail pics, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were more like 1/2 mile away.

As far as them being overcome by an avalanche, I wouldn't rule it out. However, I would think an avalanche would have disturbed the area, making the manner of death obvious. Authorities described the campsite as having "personal belongings and tarps at the scene, and a lean-to built from local logs over a firepit." I would think they would have mentioned it if items were scattered about or looked like they had been moved far from the camp.
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I certainly cannot disagree. Although LE has been very quiet on any details beyond broad brushes of what they initially observed. We also don't know yet if the campers were fully or partially undressed out of warm clothes from what could be paradoxical undressing - a common occurrence in the final stages of hypothermia before death.

My guess is something quick / acute took their lives. I can't get past ths question. Why didn't one or all of them descend to one of two towns, a 2-4 hour (more with snowpack of course) walk out at the first signs of trouble?

> Long before they starved to death (if they did) they'd know their provisions were running drastically low, right?

> Some time before they froze to death (if they did) they'd be shivering and know they had no further recourse (e.g. heat source, more clothing or insulating wraps) and the best thing to do prevent hypothermia is keep moving, right?

> Some time before they got socked in by snow they'd know the snow pack was getting too deep (1-2 feet?) for their survival with what they had on hand (presuming it was minimal, like no snow shoes), right?

I guess there there is a possibility that a fourth person left to get help, but something impeded their ability to do so. And of course there is the likely event a huge snow storm descended upon them, they were trapped, and dominos fell.

I could be way off in my thinking. But this, IMO, is a key part of the mystery here: why didn't they descend to safety long before the risks to their safety and lives could not longer be averted?

Just my humble speculations. Like @MrsWatson said earlier, I hope LE releases more information soon.
 
RedHaus said:
I can't get past ths question. Why didn't one or all of them descend to one of two towns, a 2-4 hour (more with snowpack of course) walk out at the first signs of trouble?
Click to expand...

I think we'll soon know what happened, but unless one of the group kept a journal why it happened will always remain a mystery.

However, just to speculate, I can think of a few scenarios:

For whatever reason, it seems clear that this group had turned their back on society. It may have just been too difficult, psychologically speaking, for them to give up their plans and return to civilization.

We haven't heard anything about how they planned to sustain themselves. But I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they intended on hunting and trapping for food. Most wildlife seek lower elevations or hibernate in winter but mountain goats, for one, will stay above 10K feet. Could the group have delayed returning believing that if they hold out one more day, they'll be able to shoot a goat and solve their hunger problems?

Another animal that is active in the winter at high altitudes are pikas, small rabbit-like mammals. But I was recently reading about a phenomenon called rabbit starvation, where too much of your diet comes from very lean protein and not enough from fat or carbs. If they were unaware of the danger, they may not have even realized that they were undernourished.

One other scenario that occurs to me is that we often see group dynamics where one authoritarian leader makes all the decisions and the others follow, even to the detriment to the group. How many family situations, cults, etc have ended in tragedy because the person in charge acted irrationally? Maybe that was the case here.
 
Campers May Have Died Before Winter?

A bit of new inormation from TODAY:

""I’ve been doing this business for 26 years now, and we’ve never had three people in a campsite deceased like this at all," [Gunnison County Sheriff] Murdie said.... nothing like this have I seen yet."

With the autopsies still pending, authorities estimated the three people may have died before this winter due to the amount of decomposition, Murdie said."

www.today.com

Decomposed remains of 3 hikers found at remote Colorado campsite, sheriff says

Authorities have been unable to determine the identities of three decomposed bodies that may have been at a heavily wooded campsite for months.
www.today.com www.today.com
 
RedHaus said:
Campers May Have Died Before Winter?

A bit of new inormation from TODAY:

""I’ve been doing this business for 26 years now, and we’ve never had three people in a campsite deceased like this at all," [Gunnison County Sheriff] Murdie said.... nothing like this have I seen yet."

With the autopsies still pending, authorities estimated the three people may have died before this winter due to the amount of decomposition, Murdie said."

www.today.com

Decomposed remains of 3 hikers found at remote Colorado campsite, sheriff says

Authorities have been unable to determine the identities of three decomposed bodies that may have been at a heavily wooded campsite for months.
www.today.com www.today.com
Click to expand...

if it was before winter, that makes it even more mysterious
 
iamnotagolem said:
I thought for sure there would be an ID by now, has anyone looked at older missing persons cases? I mostly just looked for ones from last summer/fall.
Click to expand...
I have a little bit. I found two possible men in their twenties that disappeared within the past few years in Colorado. Both appear unresolved and both appear mysterious (as most MP cases are!); and a third but disappeared far away in CO.

1. Terrance Parks

> age 24 when he was last seen 2/24/2019 in Buena Vista, CO heading towards Breckridge, CO
> had been seen in Gunnison, Boulder and Breckenridge (he was the closest to Gold Creek Campground of these 3)
> here is WS' thread on him
> here is Denver Post's article on him

2. Jacob Paddock-Weeks

> age 28 when he was last seen 2/2/2019 in Morrison, CO (he was previously in Tiny Town / Indian Hills, CO)
> he had a single car crash - hit a tree or telephone pole in his pickup - and was seen walking away (head injury?)
> here is WS' thread on him
> here is KDVR.com's article on him

3. Kohl "Daniel" Lamtach

> age 22 when he disappeared 7/17/2022 while on a day hike in the Trinity Peaks, Silverton, CO (from Salt Lake City)
> had been volunteering for an endurance / cross country race of some sort in the area (he himself is an ultra athlete)
> here is the Denver Gazette's article on him

As I said, the third MP is a long shot, likely not possible. But I thought I'd include him. There does not appear to be a WS thread on his case, so perhaps we should start one.

I really came up empty handed when trying to find a trio of MPs who are related (per the supposed statements by LE cited ^^^). If the three deceased campers are related, I am more apt to consider M-S or abandonement if children?

But if they are unrelated than perhaps a few lost souls gathered their resources and decided to call that camp home, and maybe we're looking at an accidental OD (e.g. Fentynal laced MJ joint)?

I wonder why LE hasn't at least put out a statement with some descripters about these campers if they need the public's help finding out who they are - like their genders, approximate ages, hair color, clothing (e.g. clothing), etc.

Anyhow, in case this helps. this is what I found a few days ago when I tried to find possible MPs that could fit...

ET finish it (hit sent way early!).
 
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Well... then there is this 7/19/2023 article in the Gunnison Times. This is by far the most recent press I have found. My guess is it is more precise than earlier reporting we've cited. It seems LE may be close to figuring this mystery out.

The article is brief. To stay within the 10% copyright rules, below are paraphrased points by Gunnison Co Coroner Barnes:

1. The deceased are not locals
2. The three individuals are related
3. Suspected COD is malnutrition and/or exposure during the winter
4. LE has had a conversation with some of those believed to be the relatives of the deceased
5. It appears they began long-term camping July 2022 and attempted to stay through the winter

So it seems to me this could have been a family unit that may not necessarily have been reported missing. Perhaps they were unhoused and/or had intended to live off the grid and/or had lost contact with family and friends long ago.

Despite this new information, this case is still very odd to me... as I've opined previously.

IMO.
 
www.9news.com

IDs of people found dead at Colorado campground released

The Gunnison County Coroner's Office said the two women and teen boy were from Colorado Springs.
www.9news.com www.9news.com

[The coroner said the bodies are of:

  • 42-year-old Rebecca Vance
  • 41-year-old Christine Vance
  • 14-year-old boy
...
The three likely started camping in July 2022 and died sometime over the winter. Family members told Barnes that the group embarked on a trip last summer and planned to live “off the grid.”]
 
dspdenver said:
www.9news.com

IDs of people found dead at Colorado campground released

The Gunnison County Coroner's Office said the two women and teen boy were from Colorado Springs.
www.9news.com www.9news.com

[The coroner said the bodies are of:

  • 42-year-old Rebecca Vance
  • 41-year-old Christine Vance
  • 14-year-old boy
...
The three likely started camping in July 2022 and died sometime over the winter. Family members told Barnes that the group embarked on a trip last summer and planned to live “off the grid.”]
Click to expand...

According to this Colorado Sun article, Rebecca and Christine were sisters, and the 14-year was Rebecca's son. All three were residents of Colorado Springs.

coloradosun.com

Three people found dead at Colorado campsite were sisters, 14-year-old boy who planned to “live off the grid”

Christine Vance, 41, Rebecca Vance, 42, and Rebecca’s son were all Colorado Springs residents, according to the Gunnison County coroner
coloradosun.com coloradosun.com
 
How unbelievably tragic. I never imagined that one of the bodies would belong to a child. With all due respect, that child didn't choose to "live off grid". I wonder if we will learn more about what made them leave society.
 
azure said:
How unbelievably tragic. I never imagined that one of the bodies would belong to a child. With all due respect, that child didn't choose to "live off grid". I wonder if we will learn more about what made them leave society.
Click to expand...
And whether they knew about Chris McCandless's failed venture (Into the Wild) in Alaska exactly 30 years prior?
 
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