CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #12

[danzn16]

The remains were beside a black plastic bag. Isn't it possible that it was put at the culvert and that animals dragged the bag out of the culvert, under the fence and onto the grass?

I've never seen an animal drag a bag that far. They would rip into the bag and then do what they do to what they want. Possibly drag what they want. But not the bag. Another reason why I don't think it's due to animals. (Grew up on a farm in a rural area, dealt with plenty of animals getting in our trash and animals attacking our farm animals)

 

[spamelope]

It was reported that the killer went under the barbwire fence. I am not going to discount what was reported in MSM. I've not heard about a bag in the fence, but in that area, that wouldn't be unusual at all. The pictures indicate a bag on the ground. Even though coyotes are Wiley, I cannot picture one standing on a strand of barbed wire while another lifts another up to make a gap for them to drag the body up the embankment. I don't think the body was there over the weekend, either. There are too many rockhounds, bicyclists, joggers, teenagers, and random Sunday drivers that would have seen or smelled something.

 

[absentia]

thank you for this. I agree. until I was 16 and living on my own in a big city, I was never talked to. I think parents are afraid of scaring kids. I think it was when I was 15 at an arts summer program in another city where I got my safety training and street smarts. By 16 and older, I had great street smarts. but before then I did way stupid stuff b/c no one had talked to me. safety training for ALL kids and parents should come out of this an a #1 priority.

When I think of the chances I took when I was younger, I am very grateful that I didn't meet a horrible end. One time me and a friend decided to walk home from Junior High along the railroad tracks. Took us hours to get home and my poor mother was beside herself with worry. I feel so horrible now for what I put her through on that day.

My car broke down one time and I accepted a ride from a man. He said he didn't want me on the street getting hit or accept a ride from someone who would do me harm. I am very grateful that he did have my best interest at heart since I still shouldn't have got in the car with him. I hope my own daughter and son have more sense.

When I was a teenager I met a guy at a party that I liked. We talked for awhile when he asked me if I would like to ride with him to his father's feed store to pick up something. Boy when I think of how stupid I was to leave the party with him. He was very nice and we rode to the feed store together and he brought me back to the party. It could have ended much worse. Again, I hope my kids have more sense.

When you are young and no one has told you any different, you never imagine anything could happen to you.

 

[thess]

I was a fairly smart (and nervous) child and teen, but I did get *peer pressured* into a couple of really stupid things--getting into a car and riding around with older boys we met outside a skating rink. Pretty much panicking the whole time (and getting made fun of for it by my wilder (dumber) peers).

When I was about 7, a guy approached me and another friend of the same age in his car. He tried to get us to approach him (while sitting in driver's seat with window rolled down), and held up a picture, what I realize now (as an adult) was some kind of *advertiser censored*, but I had no idea what I was looking at at the time. I just knew it was bad news.

We took off, but of course it still gives me chills to think of what could have happened. I don't recall him trying to get us *into* the car. I think he was more interested in 'exposing' us to the pornographic photo, not sure.

 

[Yellow]

LE could very well have a person in mind, however I'm sure that because of the nature of this case, we're not going to catch wind of it until the person is arrested or charged.

I doubt that this person is an illegal immigrant. I think he fits in and is accepted in the community, he leads a double life. Also, I am convinced this case is related to the other abduction attempts in the area, in which the suspect was a white man. IMO, He has a car, he is "normal" looking, he is average in appearance doesn't draw attention to himself ....

It could be similar to the WY case, where they were watching someone for a few days and moved in when there was a threat. LE could be watching several people around the clock. No need to move in yet. I predict they could watch for a few weeks and could move in around Halloween. Too much of a risk that if they think the guy did it, he would strike then.

The WY suspect fits the profile of these perps to a T, even down to the fact that his ex wife alleged in her custody petition that he killed her pet cat. The perp in this case will be the same. Normal guy to outsiders but those on inside, like wife, ex wife, etc. will have noticed something or he would have harmed animals in the past. This might be his first time killing a human but he probably would have dismembered animals in the past and escalated to children.

On the other hand, Many of these perps, like Gardiner in CA, killer of Somer Thompson in FL, are often troubled isolated people. Then there is a second type like Bundy, etc who are much more "normal." Usually it seems like these child perps often had SOME trouble in the past. People like Bundy or Ridgeway usually attacked women.

 

[JoeFromLB]

The only thing I could come up with that might be plausible in this situation is the "lost puppy" scenario. I know there was an attempted abduction in the area using that ruse. It didn't work that time, so maybe he did things to make it seem more truthful ... printed out a picture, bought a leash ... Personally, I am an animal lover, and I have had animals lost in the past, so if someone were to ask, have you seen my dog?, I would at least stop and look at the photo from the outside of the vehicle. Most people drive around when their dog is lost. However, a ten year old may not take the proper precautions.

Samantha Runnion's killer used the ruse of a lost puppy to lure her over to his car, then he grabbed her and drove away.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Samantha_Runnion"]Murder of Samantha Runnion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[Footwarrior]

It might take a super long time to analyze but if they have approximate times when he was in 3 locations (abduction, book bag drop and drop site) might there be cameras on businesses, etc that could show cars? I am not sure if any locals on WS might know? I imagine they might be near JR home and Superior but maybe not at field.

Yet if there are cameras, I hope LE is going through the frames to see if maybe there is a car that might be at all three sites at the indicated times. Could take awhile to do.

I remember on Oprah they said NEVER go to a second location when there is an attempted kidnapping. Nothing ever good comes of going to the second location. Fight to stay at the first location.

The neighborhood where Jessica lives doesn't have any commercial establishments. Nor where there any near where the bag was dropped. The body was left in open country out of site from any houses. The obvious routes between Jessica's neighborhood and the bag drop passes a few business, but they are far off the road. The obvious routes between where the body was found and the other two locations are mostly through open space. I doubt there are any security cameras with a view of those roads.

 

[Ballerina]

Hello everyone! This is my first post on the JR thread but I've been a lurker since the very first thread, and a longtime websleuths lurker before that because my mom is a registered user here. I just wanted to drop in and say hello :seeya:

Anyways, I can't help but wonder what made Jessica go along with the perp as we discuss ways to stay vigilant against an abduction. My only conclusion is that she must've at least distantly known this person... just enough to give them the benefit of the doubt. IMO she seemed like a bright, caring girl and whoever it was surely took advantage of her "helper" attitude. What are y'all's thoughts on the matter.. do you think she trusted her abductor (even if only slightly) or do you think he used force to take her? I think getting to the bottom of this could really help shed some light on just how "local" this really was to her.

 

[TNGirl615]

The neighborhood where Jessica lives doesn't have any commercial establishments. Nor where there any near where the bag was dropped. The body was left in open country out of site from any houses. The obvious routes between Jessica's neighborhood and the bag drop passes a few business, but they are far off the road. The obvious routes between where the body was found and the other two locations are mostly through open space. I doubt there are any security cameras with a view of those roads.

That's disappointing:banghead:

 

[Yellow]

I was a fairly smart (and nervous) child and teen, but I did get *peer pressured* into a couple of really stupid things--getting into a car and riding around with older boys we met outside a skating rink. Pretty much panicking the whole time (and getting made fun of for it by my wilder (dumber) peers).

When I was about 7, a guy approached me and another friend of the same age in his car. He tried to get us to approach him (while sitting in driver's seat with window rolled down), and held up a picture, what I realize now (as an adult) was some kind of *advertiser censored*, but I had no idea what I was looking at at the time. I just knew it was bad news.

We took off, but of course it still gives me chills to think of what could have happened. I don't recall him trying to get us *into* the car. I think he was more interested in 'exposing' us to the pornographic photo, not sure.

I think this can happen to the "smartest" people on paper. One of my friends, who was number one in her law school class, went into a car with a strange man in her 20s who she met on the street. I think a lot of people just believe the best in people.

Before I went to college, my mother made me watch the Ted Bundy miniseries, the one with Mark Harmond that was on TV around that time. Scared the ***** out of me. I got the message not to walk alone on campus at night or to go help people carry their books.

This was also around the time as the serial killer at the university of Florida so between watching that movie and knowing what happened in Gainesville, I was pretty scared. But still, there were times I walked alone in deserted areas at night even though I knew better. It was a rural New England town, so everyone felt safe.

Same thing in CO. It looks like a very safe quiet town and no one ever expected that walking a block could get you killed. It was a freak occurrence,

 

[Marilynilpa]

It was reported that the killer went under the barbwire fence. I am not going to discount what was reported in MSM. I've not heard about a bag in the fence, but in that area, that wouldn't be unusual at all. The pictures indicate a bag on the ground. Even though coyotes are Wiley, I cannot picture one standing on a strand of barbed wire while another lifts another up to make a gap for them to drag the body up the embankment. I don't think the body was there over the weekend, either. There are too many rockhounds, bicyclists, joggers, teenagers, and random Sunday drivers that would have seen or smelled something.

I agree 100%. I saw the video where a reporter showed a washed out area underneath part of the barbed wire fence, where an adult could easily get through. It was near the culvert, and it was my assumption that water running through the culvert had eroded the ground beneath the fence. This was reported, IIRC, the day after the body was found.

Here is a quote from the article:

The person chose an isolated area, crossed under the barbed wire fence at a drainage culvert, and left the body on a hillside. It's still not confirmed if the body is Jessica's.

http://www.9news.com/news/local/art...uld-strike-again?odyssey=tab|topnews|bc|large

 

[thess]

I missed something.. What girl was left for dead?

I believe they must be referring to the girl in WY who was abducted, assaulted and released (in the wilderness) around the same time frame as JR went missing. There has been a lot of effort to tie the (arrested) perp there to JR, but it doesn't seem to me like the timelines make it possible.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187167"]Found Alive WY - AMBER ALERT: 11 year Old, Cody, 8 October 2012 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[nursebeeme]

Shasta Groene speaks out about Jessica's case
http://www.king5.com/news/crime/Idaho-kidnapping-survivor-Shasta-Groene-talks-about--174577181.html

 

[tlcya]

Hello everyone! This is my first post on the JR thread but I've been a lurker since the very first thread, and a longtime websleuths lurker before that because my mom is a registered user here. I just wanted to drop in and say hello :seeya:

Anyways, I can't help but wonder what made Jessica go along with the perp as we discuss ways to stay vigilant against an abduction. My only conclusion is that she must've at least distantly known this person... just enough to give them the benefit of the doubt. IMO she seemed like a bright, caring girl and whoever it was surely took advantage of her "helper" attitude. What are y'all's thoughts on the matter.. do you think she trusted her abductor (even if only slightly) or do you think he used force to take her? I think getting to the bottom of this could really help shed some light on just how "local" this really was to her.

:welcome: So glad you have decided to come out of lurkdom I have turned this question around and around in my mind. I think a combo of both.

I think she was "on sight" familiar with her abductor. He was someone she had seen before, probably more than once, in a non-threatening situation. He "fit" and seemed harmless in the context that she had seen him in the past. That allowed him to get close enough to her not to set off any alarm bells in her head.

Once close to her physically, he then subdued her by force in some manner.

I look forward to reading more of your thoughts as this case continues to unfold.

 

[Hatfield]

There are a lot of good thoughts and ideas to help LE here in the threads. Hopefully they read here and maybe can use some of the ideas if they need them.

IMO only
Below are just some thoughts I have been thinking about lately regarding this case:

-LE needs to teach us how to help. I know LE does a good job, but wish they would do better at instructing the public with how to identify what is strange or out of the ordinary behaviors that people could be looking for. Wish they would provide more guidance to people with how to help in a case like this. Most all the public have not had to even think about the type of person who could do such a thing, so most everyone is very novice in how to identify some strange or out of place behaviors. Hardly anyone has any experience with dealing with this sort of situation, so hardly anyone really knows what to do or what to even look for as far as what could be conceived as out of ordinary behavior. A perfect example would be burning something in the yard. If not told that would be something to look for, most may not suspect that sort of thing.

Having a handout to provide the public with this sort of informtion would have been a perfect opportunity last night at the service. A simple review in a TV interview is not good enough IMO. The public needs a detailed set of written instructions.

-Anonymous Tips. Wish LE would provide a very detailed set of instructions with how to phone in an anonymous tip. I seriously think LE loses a lot of tips because people are generally afraid of contacting LE for any reason. A lot of people may have relatives or friends that maybe smoke a little weed or something, so they would be apprehensive to contact LE even if they knew something. Some may be illegal aliens, etc.

BUT.....even if they are totally law abiding citizens, there is a general fear of LE.

If anyone doubts this fear of LE, just think back to when you were last pulled over for a simple traffic stop, and even if you were doing nothing wrong, the FEAR of LE is very real and present in most all of us.

-Better Online LE presence that truly works. Wish LE would just do a better job overall with involving the public to help them via the internet. Every local LE should have a WEB presence, but with specific ANONYMOUS sections for situations such as this case.

People are generally afraid to go to certain links for fear of a virus, and with LE websites, it is even worse becuse people fear their IP address is being tracked. Not only that, but most LE websites just have the basic info about their department. They seem to use it more for a self-advertising feel good type website, rather than a great resource where the public could go and feel comfortable to truly intereact with LE in times of need. And have anonyous protected sections where privacy of the individual is guaranteed, so people would feel comfortable to even go there.

I truly suspect that most of the public totally avoid all LE based websites because none of what I have suggested has ever been done IMO. This is a resource that is being totally waisted IMO because of not dealing with the reality of how people feel about such websites.

-The person that did this needs to be caught very quickly, but in the meantime, I do hope and pray that the community can try to begin to heal. Being cautious and observant and protective is great, but we have to remember that the odds of anyone of us being a victim like this is still very rare.

We want to take all steps necessry to prevent us and our kids from becoming a victim, but we also cannot let the perp(s) destroy our lives. I dont live in that state as well as a lot of us here in WS dont live there, but a lot of us are keeping that community in our thoughts and prayers, so know that you have a lot of support from afar. We are keeping you in our thoughts and prayers, so please take some comfort from that if you can.



Sorry, kind of went on a tangent, but I feel we as a society can do so much more to help prevent this sort of thing, as well as catch these animals when it does happen.

 

[stealth]

It might take a super long time to analyze but if they have approximate times when he was in 3 locations (abduction, book bag drop and drop site) might there be cameras on businesses, etc that could show cars? I am not sure if any locals on WS might know? I imagine they might be near JR home and Superior but maybe not at field.

Yet if there are cameras, I hope LE is going through the frames to see if maybe there is a car that might be at all three sites at the indicated times. Could take awhile to do.\.

I've thought this myself and posted something about it the other day. My working assumption is that the perp grabbed her at or near her home, took her somewhere nearby to do whatever he was going to do and then dumped the remains first and then the backpack later on his way out of town. If you look at a map to get from the abduction site to where the remains were dumped you would most likely go west on 100th Ave to CO Rt 5 (Indiana St) and then South on Indiana to 82nd Ave and then west on 82nd to where the body was found. Assuming the next step was to dump the backpack. Back to Indiana and North to 120th and then a slight jog west and then north on McCaslin to Christenson Ave and then a quick right on Andrew Way and drop the backpack. Turn around back to McCaslin and then North to Highway 36. My assumption is that he then went west on 36th through Boulder and up into the mountains near Estes Park to hide out for awhile. As I mentioned yesterday, I'm really bothered by the forest fire in the Estes Park area that was started on Tuesday the 9th and think it may be connected.

I've driven that route and looked for cameras. As far as I can tell there is only one and that is a traffic camera at the intersection of 86th and Indiana. If you do a google street view and zoom in you can clearly see them at the top of the lights at that intersection. If my theory is correct though, the vehicle would have had to pass that intersection at least twice and possibly three times on the route that I described. There is almost no other route that wouldn't take you significantly more time. So, if you look at the time window between 8:30am on Friday and say midnight on Saturday night assuming LE has that video feed you should be able to identify a set of vehicles that could possibly be involved. It's probably not a small number, but also not likely to be a huge number either -- maybe 100 or so if I had to guess.

I also think this path suggests that the despite the suggestions of others, that the backpack drop site was random and doesn't have some other meaning. Clearly he intended it to be found, but likely wanted it far enough away from the body that it wouldn't be found too quickly and far enough away from him to give him time to get away. If you follow my path, you will see that the right on Christenson from McCaslin is literally the second place you can turn right from the site of the body where there is really any kind of humanity at all and also the last right before you get to the highway that isn't a larger street or commercial. And the house it was dropped in front of is the first house that doesn't have windows facing the street.

As for the backpack being a distraction it worked. Immediately the search area was changed to the North and in fact the few days before the body were found were spent searching the open areas to the West of McCaslin bordered by 36th to the North and 120th to the South. Basically due North of the location of the body.

Map: http://goo.gl/maps/M6XJD

Cameras: http://goo.gl/maps/JTSNm

 

[MoonFlwr]

chicagofa13

Thanks for help with links on the previous thread!

Ballerina: Welcome!

 

[tlcya]

"They may have no suspects," said Kenneth Lanning, a retired FBI behavior analyst in Fredericksburg, Va., who is now a consultant specializing in crimes against children. "But likely at this point, they have so many suspects and now they're trying to sort through them."

Lanning is not involved in the Colorado case but described such investigations as multi-track efforts, with volunteers and deputies searching homes, bushes, drainages and open space near the child's house while investigators develop a criminal case.

Police likely are pouring through hours of surveillance video taken at banks, gas stations, government buildings and elsewhere, Lanning said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/10/17/2000-attend-jessica-ridgeway-memorial/1638581/

 

[tlcya]

Lanning and Van Zandt [added for clarity: FBI profiler Clinton Van Zandt] noted investigators will build their own suspect profile using the evidence. They'll consider where Jessica was last seen alive and where her body was found, along with the condition of her body, which police have said was "not intact." There's also the girl's backpack, which might contain clues.

"Behavior can be expressed in a crime scene," Lanning said. "We're greatly hoping that in addition to behavioral clues, how about he left his DNA?"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/10/17/2000-attend-jessica-ridgeway-memorial/1638581/

 

[tlcya]

taking a moment to :wave: to all our guests. Please consider joining Websleuths and adding your thoughts on this case. Jump on in, the water is fine.