CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #13

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Oh, yes. Absolutely confused about this portion of the timeline. Makes no sense to me whatsoever. But, as I said, since LE don't seem bothered by it at all, I can only assume they have additional details that make sense of it all!

JMO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Catching up (as usual). I feel this is the most important part of the timeline because the time and place of abduction can be narrowed down, which can help with ruling out alibis. I will have to find the posts discussing this, but from what I remember, the friend lives in an area that makes Chelsea Park farther to walk to than from his home (I hope that makes sense - he doesn't live in the immediate area).

As others of have mentioned, the rewind from the scanner makes it seem as if the friend and his father left from their home (rather than Chelsea Park). If that's indeed the case, the time and place of abduction is much larger than the time and distance it takes to get from Jessica's home to Chelsea Park. Was she actually meeting her friend at his house??? If so, would that route take her by the community/rec center where an apparent witness (not named and not mentioned in any other MSN articles) states she saw her walking in that area?

I know LE has much more information than we do, but these inconsistencies do raise a lot of questions for me. I assume the father of the friend was cleared, but even so, if Jessica was meeting her friend at different location than Chelsea Park, then it broadens the possible time and place of her abduction.
 
BBM. Me, too. Especially on this issue. Has anyone heard if that father was cleared?

Was the father even questioned?
IMO he had to be cleared if LE still thinks a perp is out there. :waitasec:
 
I took a long nap and finally caught up again! There was a post from the last thread that I wanted to respond to:

Originally Posted by margarita25
I have another question. I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this question, and want to stay on topic, so if there is a more appropriate place for questions like these, please let me know. As a local who is experiencing all this very close, I would like to ask you guys, what IS the appropriate age for kids to be walking alone in your opinion? My neighbor's 13 year old son, who looks younger, has still been walking alone to and from the bus stop, despite the fact Jessica wast last seen 6 miles from here and there have been the attempted candy man abductions on boys as well... While we neighbors were engaged in conversation about the case, I diplomatically mentioned to my neighbor my concern about her son walking alone. She said she leaves in the morning before she can see him off and can't do anything about it, so I volunteered to walk with him, but she says he will be ok, that it is only a short walk, that he has been talked to about stranger danger, etc. Me personally, if I had a child his age, I would not allow him to walk anywhere around here alone with an active child killer very possibly in the neighborhood. I went to bed with a very unsettling feeling about this, and a feeling of disbelief / anger towards the parent. Am I wrong for this? Is this parent being irresponsible? How does one in a situation like this differentiate between being cautious and going overboard? I am not leaving any of my students out of sight, not for even one second. Thanks in advance.

Also, I am trying to implement child safety awareness, etc. within my other classes. I know there are lots of resources out there, but if anyone has any specific educational links, etc that they especially recommend for elementary students, please let me know. Thank you.

I know how defensive people can be if they think you are challenging how they treat their dogs. I think that defensiveness ratchets up by a factor of 10 or even 100 when you start talking about their kids. So I think it is important to be tactful and to concede to yourself before you even bring it up that there are many different ways to bring children up and that each parent is usually making the best decision they can which takes into consideration their family dynamic, that particular child's personality and the circumstances.

I don't know about Colorado but here in Iowa jobs aren't all that easy to find right now and for many, many people there is a definite sense of "don't rock the boat because there are 600 people out there who are qualified to do my job and would happily do it for 20% less than I make." So flex-time hours aren't always available to parents in Iowa and that's just the way it is this year. While there is a less than one in a million chance a child is abducted by a non-family member, the chances of being foreclosed are 100% if you can't make your mortgage payments.

So, considering that, my suggestion for bringing up topics like this is not to ask the other parent if they feel safe allowing their child to do X. Maybe they do and they are likely to take note of the unspoken "if you feel okay with X, you're obviously not a good parent" message.

Try approaching it from the child's side of things. "With what happened to Jessica Ridgeway, how does your son feel about walking to school?" Not as judgmental and it takes the spotlight off parenting practices and puts it on results (which is where it should be). It's a question that focuses on the person whose feelings matter the most.

Thirteen year olds can vary so widely. Some of them are already into teen rebellion and some of them still have one foot and a lot of their heart still in childhood. Some of them are both and it's a coin toss as to whether you're dealing with the teen rebel or child at any given moment!

If the kid is already hitting the teen rebel phase, allowing him to walk alone may be a case of having to pick battles. If that were the case, I'd ask if that boy would be willing to talk to my child about how to stay safe on that walk to school. While you listen in and then offer suggestions if you see some obvious holes in thinking. If a kid is in the teen rebel phase, they'll take suggestions a lot more easily from someone other than their own parent, particularly if they have already been treated as someone who has knowledge to share (in other words, respect).

If the kid still has a foot in childhood, that kid may not feel so comfortable walking alone and would welcome some outside assistance. In that case, you could offer to watch or offer your home as a parent-approved safe place to go if he just gets a funny feeling. Make it clear that nothing has to happen for him to come to your house for help or an escort to school.

I've also found over the years that no matter what sort of kid I'm dealing with, parent approved cookies or other sweets seem to make me a better, more charming, more interesting person.

Works with dogs, too. <wink>
 
Catching up (as usual). I feel this is the most important part of the timeline because the time and place of abduction can be narrowed down, which can help with ruling out alibis. I will have to find the posts discussing this, but from what I remember, the friend lives in an area that makes Chelsea Park farther to walk to than from his home (I hope that makes sense - he doesn't live in the immediate area).

As others of have mentioned, the rewind from the scanner makes it seem as if the friend and his father left from their home (rather than Chelsea Park). If that's indeed the case, the time and place of abduction is much larger than the time and distance it takes to get from Jessica's home to Chelsea Park. Was she actually meeting her friend at his house??? If so, would that route take her by the community/rec center where an apparent witness (not named and not mentioned in any other MSN articles) states she saw her walking in that area?

I know LE has much more information than we do, but these inconsistencies do raise a lot of questions for me. I assume the father of the friend was cleared, but even so, if Jessica was meeting her friend at different location than Chelsea Park, then it broadens the possible time and place of her abduction.

Yes, exactly the issue--the location might include a much larger area! Yet we have seen reported over and over that it was the three blocks between home and Chelsea Park. I agree it doesn't necessarily make sense that they would meet there--but there you have it.

JMO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Regarding the rewind of the morning Jessica went missing: I'm paraphrasing here...what was the talk about JR's pillow and her possibly being seen at the rec center around 8:30 am?? Did they really find her pillow at the rec center?? And where is the rec center in comparison to the Chelsea Park area? If I have this messed up, please let me know because I've had this in the back of my mind and always dismiss it because I haven't really heard much about it.

LOL, alexandra, you have hit the nail on the head about puzzlement.

Dr. Know tactfully told us we can buy a subscription to the scanner channels ourselves to untwist this confusion. I am not hesitant to subscribe ~ but, with my skills at listening, discerning and transcribing ~ it might as well be broadcast in Russian!

There's no way of knowing where the two people were who were talking about the unicorn (Did someone say Unicorn?) pillow pet so we can't really know the full implications of what they were saying about it. It can be interpreted too many ways.

I'm still keeping it in the back of my mind though, too.
 
Isn't it easier to work with the 3 blocks than any other non mentioned area? Has anyone been confirmed as the last person that saw Jessica? Besides her mom of course.
 
Oh, yes. Absolutely confused about this portion of the timeline. Makes no sense to me whatsoever. But, as I said, since LE don't seem bothered by it at all, I can only assume they have additional details that make sense of it all!

JMO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


we have no idea what LE thought abt that. they may have investigated and are now watching some of those ppl closely.
 
Yes, exactly the issue--the location might include a much larger area! Yet we have seen reported over and over that it was the three blocks between home and Chelsea Park. I agree it doesn't necessarily make sense that they would meet there--but there you have it.

JMO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I truly think there could be a much larger area Jessica went missing from. There is reason to think she could have been at either or both the rec ctr's - West View and Countryside; she could have been en route to the friend's house, she could have cut thru Chelsea and open space to the school, or she could have gone via the street and then trail through open space.
 
That would be the one. I remember Jeffery Dahmer did too so that's why that article caught my eye earlier today. It didn't take Dahmer long to esculate to bigger kills after that did it? He moved out of his parents house soon after his father questioned what he had in the box in his closet or something, a dead bird wasn't it? (long ago)

There was actually a period of 9 years between the first victim and the string of killings that led to Dahmer's arrest. This wikipedia article about his early life is pretty close to what I remember from reading his father's book:

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer"]Jeffrey Dahmer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

When he was 18, he was already problems with alcohol. When his father was away on a business trip, his mother moved out of the house preparatory to divorce and taking his younger brother. That left Jeffrey in the house alone for a period of time and he used it to pick up a hitchhiker by offering him beer, then clubbed the man to death when he turned Dahmer's proposition down. Dahmer buried him in the backyard.

Then Dahmer went into the army and was discharged after 2 years due to alcoholism. After he was discharged, he lived in Florida for awhile, then moved in with his grandmother in Wisconsin. After 6 years, she asked him to move out because his behaviour was just getting weirder and weirder (plus the smells from his animal experiments in the basement).

The book is sad because since the reader already knows what happens, it is easy to spot the spiral into total depravity but it was totally confusing to his parents, particularly his father who admits he was way too hands-off as a parent.
 
with a predator on the loose, I would not let anyone under 18 go anywhere alone.
over 18 you have to let them but I'd insist on a buddy system. maybe for 16 and over too, but not at 15. unless the buddy is over 18. and a trusted, known person.

I took a long nap and finally caught up again! There was a post from the last thread that I wanted to respond to:



I know how defensive people can be if they think you are challenging how they treat their dogs. I think that defensiveness ratchets up by a factor of 10 or even 100 when you start talking about their kids. So I think it is important to be tactful and to concede to yourself before you even bring it up that there are many different ways to bring children up and that each parent is usually making the best decision they can which takes into consideration their family dynamic, that particular child's personality and the circumstances.

I don't know about Colorado but here in Iowa jobs aren't all that easy to find right now and for many, many people there is a definite sense of "don't rock the boat because there are 600 people out there who are qualified to do my job and would happily do it for 20% less than I make." So flex-time hours aren't always available to parents in Iowa and that's just the way it is this year. While there is a less than one in a million chance a child is abducted by a non-family member, the chances of being foreclosed are 100% if you can't make your mortgage payments.

So, considering that, my suggestion for bringing up topics like this is not to ask the other parent if they feel safe allowing their child to do X. Maybe they do and they are likely to take note of the unspoken "if you feel okay with X, you're obviously not a good parent" message.

Try approaching it from the child's side of things. "With what happened to Jessica Ridgeway, how does your son feel about walking to school?" Not as judgmental and it takes the spotlight off parenting practices and puts it on results (which is where it should be). It's a question that focuses on the person whose feelings matter the most.

Thirteen year olds can vary so widely. Some of them are already into teen rebellion and some of them still have one foot and a lot of their heart still in childhood. Some of them are both and it's a coin toss as to whether you're dealing with the teen rebel or child at any given moment!

If the kid is already hitting the teen rebel phase, allowing him to walk alone may be a case of having to pick battles. If that were the case, I'd ask if that boy would be willing to talk to my child about how to stay safe on that walk to school. While you listen in and then offer suggestions if you see some obvious holes in thinking. If a kid is in the teen rebel phase, they'll take suggestions a lot more easily from someone other than their own parent, particularly if they have already been treated as someone who has knowledge to share (in other words, respect).

If the kid still has a foot in childhood, that kid may not feel so comfortable walking alone and would welcome some outside assistance. In that case, you could offer to watch or offer your home as a parent-approved safe place to go if he just gets a funny feeling. Make it clear that nothing has to happen for him to come to your house for help or an escort to school.

I've also found over the years that no matter what sort of kid I'm dealing with, parent approved cookies or other sweets seem to make me a better, more charming, more interesting person.

Works with dogs, too. <wink>
 
Was the father even questioned?
IMO he had to be cleared if LE still thinks a perp is out there. :waitasec:

well, everyone is still out there, and the only ppl cleared are the family, so everyone else is still an open question.
 
Someone apparently reported seeing her from the rec center, walking south, and with the pillow pet. That is my understanding.

However, her pillow pet appears to have still been at home, so I believe this sighting was ruled out as inaccurate (perhaps remembering a different day).

JMO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

we have no proof the pillow pet was at home. We know it was "on scene" and I think that meant at the command center and that was at West View rec ctr.
 
Yes, exactly the issue--the location might include a much larger area! Yet we have seen reported over and over that it was the three blocks between home and Chelsea Park. I agree it doesn't necessarily make sense that they would meet there--but there you have it.

JMO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Law enforcement mentioned early on that they had a possible witness who saw Jessica on her walk to school; I'm assuming that is how they are ruling out the possibility she took some other route.
 
So true. And I'm sure LE has gone through the phone records, texts, messages, and internet history of anyone connected in any way. Thank Homeland Security for that...:)

Do the possibly related cases also happen during warm weather?

well, we don't know if Jessica called to confirm the walk. The call came from the mom's cell phone. So, someone called at a time before Jessica was said to have been awake.
She may have a history of bopping around the hood before school. who knows.
 
we have no proof the pillow pet was at home. We know it was "on scene" and I think that meant at the command center and that was at West View rec ctr.

Well, for me, this is what we have to be so careful about! From what we can read "downstairs" ~ we have no idea at all where the speaker's "on scene" is. It is critical that we don't assume too much from the benefit of our access.
 
Was the father even questioned?
IMO he had to be cleared if LE still thinks a perp is out there. :waitasec:

IIRC, LE went to Missouri and questioned the father and his mother. And LE stated on October 10th that the parents were cleared.

http://kdvr.com/2012/10/10/police-c...-parents-call-her-disappearance-an-abduction/

Quote:

Investigators cleared the parents of Jessica Ridgeway in the 10-year-old’s disappearance.

“After thoroughly looking at the parents, we’re confident they are not involved in the disappearance of Jessica Ridgeway,” Westminster police spokesman Trevor Materasso says
 
Even if LE secretly has a POI, they might still need people to call in to fill in the picture. That is kind of wishful thinking on my part, as it doesn't feel like they do, but it is possible they have a person or two they have not been able to clear, or maybe refused DNA, etc...so they want to see if anyone noticed anything else odd about them on that day and/or days following.
 
MOO but it would make sense to me that JR may have taken shelter in a rec ctr that morning because wasn't it raining/snowing? Do we know exactly what JR was wearing, btw?
 
Law enforcement mentioned early on that they had a possible witness who saw Jessica on her walk to school; I'm assuming that is how they are ruling out the possibility she took some other route.

OMGosh, GrainneDhu, I can't believe I'm in the least bit of disagreement with you because I respect all of your posts so much.

But . . . we only have a possible witness who saw Jessica. We don't even know if it's solid. And since we don't know where they saw her ~ can we, then, further assume it was on her way to school?
 
well, we don't know if Jessica called to confirm the walk. The call came from the mom's cell phone. So, someone called at a time before Jessica was said to have been awake.
She may have a history of bopping around the hood before school. who knows.
absentia, the friend's father confirms he talked to Jessica on the phone that morning. Please see [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8435263&postcount=2171"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
99
Guests online
1,684
Total visitors
1,783

Forum statistics

Threads
606,182
Messages
18,200,100
Members
233,765
Latest member
Jasonax3
Back
Top