CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #14

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They're looking for someone "light-skinned", not white. Maybe you are onto something.

Maybe.

I've known many fair-skinned Spaniards from New Mexico and Colorado. Many of them have blue eyes.

It could also be someone who is enraptured with the mythology and symbolism associated with the Penitentes rather than a practitioner.

Atonement is the core of their beliefs.

And, of course, I could be way off. :)
 
Something to consider. Police may have taken *other* photos of the item to be used as evidence or to be sent for analysis at a different point in their investigation. These photos may be a second set taken specifically in consideration of a public release. For that reason, we cannot say that the cross was found *after* the body was found, because we simply do not know this. We can say the *photo* was taken after her body was found, because the exif data confirms that. But we do not know that it was *found after* the body was found, or that it was *found* with the body, or if it was found earlier (eg: with the backpack).

If this was a photo police were going to use as evidence at a future court date, then I suspect that you would see other things on the photo:
-> indicators of the lines (eg: arrows on the screen, or circles around the lines) in an effort to point them out to a potential jury in the future.
-> you might see other things as well, perhaps a circle around the an area that was swabbed or scraped for some reason (evidence collection or scraped by whoever had possession of it before LE). The scrape in question is evident on the side that has the three straight lines, under the third line, on the right side, but I had to run it through LightRoom3 to be able to really see it, and still couldn't decide if it was a scrape, a swab mark or what.

Just pls keep in mind, this could be a secondary set of photos, not specific to the date it was found, or the location. The exif data only tells us it was photo'd after the body was found, not that it was found with the body is my point.
I have to go find it... but on the last thread there is a picture of the cross next to a ruler. Also: LE said they went to the DA before releasing the photos (evidence) to the public.

I agree there could be more photos of the cross not released.. my opinion is that those would be the pictures of the cross in situ at the crime scene:twocents:
 
Just my opinion but if LE is trying to rule in or rule out the attempted abduction the cross is from it. We know Jessica's backpack and body were found at 2 others crime scenes. They know these are Jessica's abductor. They need something from the other attempted abduction in order to rule it in or out.
If the cross were from the Jessica crime areas it would not be a connection to the attempted abduction.
If this is so, they may have DNA from Jessica's abductor. Or they are just hoping to find out who the cross belongs too so they can interrogate him about Jessica.
 
Recent comment made by Westminster PD on their Facebook Page
Westminster PD: Westminster Police have received a number of tips associated to the cross and suspect description from the Ketner Lake incident. We appreciate the tips that are helping in our Investigation. Police are not looking for explanation or meaning of the markings, but we are looking for who may have worn or had one of these, has or displays other items with identical marks and in particular, a person that fits the suspect description: light skinned male, medium build, average height. Thank you.
18 minutes ago
http://www.facebook.com/westminsterpolice/posts/165009636971765
 
well.. it would seem they asked for a steak but are getting the whole cow ;-)
 
I found this comment made by the Westminster PD on their Facebook page. They are NOT seeking help on identifying the symbolism of the markings on the cross.

Westminster Police have received a number of tips associated to the cross and suspect description from the Ketner Lake incident. We appreciate the tips that are helping in our Investigation. Police are not looking for explanation or meaning of the markings, but we are looking for who may have worn or had one of these, has or displays other items with identical marks and in particular, a person that fits the suspect description: light skinned male, medium build, average height. Thank you.

I wonder if that means they already know what the markings symbolize....or that they believe the markings are random/irrelevant. My guess is they already know what the markings symbolize or else they wouldn't have pointed out their existence so explicitly in the photo descriptions....

http://www.facebook.com/westminsterpolice
 
I wonder if there are any other similar items of the perpetrator that have been recovered
 
I have to go find it... but on the last thread there is a picture of the cross next to a ruler. Also: LE said they went to the DA before releasing the photos (evidence) to the public.

I agree there could be more photos of the cross not released.. my opinion is that those would be the pictures of the cross in situ at the crime scene:twocents:

I agree and I think it makes a difference if the cross was just found or if it was placed. And if placed, where. jmo
 
Forgive me for my ignorance, but do rosaries have crosses on them?
 
Forgive me for my ignorance, but do rosaries have crosses on them?

Yes. They would hang in the center like a pendant necklace. Some are quite ornate and intricate.

This particular cross is a child's hand cross. It could have been part of a child's rosary or even a key chain. The markings are symbolic of the religion intended.
 
i was checking out cross wholesalers, Indonesia, Bali, market a lot of handharved dark wood items, and of coarse China has wholesalers.
Anyways since the items are bought in lots, part of the sales pitch is for such crosses to be given out at religeous retreats and such, maybe a church or such will recognize them.
JMO
 
LE's end goal is to find 'who' had the cross. Knowing 'where' it's sold would be significant. Knowing 'why' it's marked like that is insignificant until the determine 'who' it belongs to.

moo


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This is the closest match I have been able to find:

http://rainforesttropics.com/Special Offers/Special Offers.html

JRcrossandRTMcross.jpg


The cross is sold on a Rainforest Tropics Missions donation website out of Dalton GA.

It is a : "Carved Rosewood Necklaces from Costa Rica"
 
Hey guys,

With the new development's, and without a real profile from the feds. I ran some things by Peter(he is not a professional profiler, but he knows more about SK's then anyone I have seen that isn't a former FBI agent. I asked about Pat Browns statement that her sources say on the torso was found. Also the attemped abduction of the woman by the lake. Now this probably isnt 100% accurate, and could be dead wrong. But it is something to think about. He is the one who told me about the meaning of October 5th is also important to Christians.

Hi Sean,

oh my, that doesn't look good, but there is not enough yet to go on. I should really put some time in it, but there are so many cases. So lets just go through the points in the order they come to me:

Okay, Pat Brown: Aside of her TV presence, I had three cases I looked into, that was Flint, Baseline and that Alabama diver. She had a two out of three in that, so that doesn't look too bad. Kelly had a one out of three on them, just for comparison. However, Brown has a lot of trustworthy connections, so I take the word for it, the cross was found nearby and they found only the torso.

Now, the cross. Leaving a cross nearby normally indicates a basically Christian raised perpetrator and counts as sign of remorse. However, three etches in it, like notches, that is something different. More like notches in a colt. So, three kills, including Jessica Ridgway? And a connection to some twisted form of Christianity maybe? Significant is, the perpetrator just didn't lose that cross. He left it there intentionally. So it is a message or a red herring. Since he is high organized and already deployed one decoy, my guess is red herring.

Why do they dismiss the other pervs? There are a lot of reasons. Not organized enough, different MO, different victimology. However, it can always happen, this backfires. I just did, for scholarly reasons, a profile on the Moor Murders in England and that was for example a victimology of female and male victims mixed. So, I guess, they make a rough check on them, but they will come back when they run out of hotter leads.

The 22 year old who escaped an abduction. Cloth with chloroform or ether would do the trick. But then, it would do the trick so well, the victim has almost no chance, unless it would be a 6ft girl with a combat weight of 250lbs plus who just rolled over him. I doubt that. So ... whoever did that, messed up. And our guy doesn't mess up. He plans the work, then he works the plan. En detail. Aside of that, Jessica Ridgway is pre-nubile age bracket while a 22 year old is definitive adult age bracket. And since most guys who go for pre-nubile victims are preferential offenders, I don't see a connection via the victimology. However, that would be a different story, if this wasn't entirely sexual motivated. Delusional cases may have wider victimologies, and so has the religious/occult range sometimes.

Dismembering victims happens a lot. Mostly as forensic counter measure, to delay identification or as prerequisite to destroy the body. Sometimes also to easy body transport. I don't see anything in the articles, that points to staging. Do you have more about the environment, the surroundings, the details of the find? I admit, I didn't dig yet. Without staging, I doubt, it would be a torso-killer of the Manorville type. There is the shocker, the statement missing, as of yet, but maybe the police is just holding back on the gruesome details.

So, what's to do:

1.) This is no first-timer. So where are girls 9-12 missing, blonde, maybe with glasses. Somewhere in the US, not necessarily Colorado. Or where would we find rape cases, ab. 5 years plus back, with a similar victimology?

2.) In the case of the 22 year old, they should look for someone who was with her at the same college and/or high school. The usual quiet guy, she had not much to do with. Or a neighbor from back then. Someone who knew her, but had time to change his appearance. Just to make sure.

3.) Police needs to canvas the gas stations around the abduction site (or area in this case). Somewhere around is a gas station, where someone with a very normal sedan type car has filled up in the hour before the abduction. He has most likely plates from out of state. He has, aside of a probably moderate amount of gas, bought one or two bottles of soda, likely coke, and/or an energy drink, some cookies or candy and maybe cigarettes. If so, my bet is Marlboro. He has paid cash. Chances are, he was also in the hours or the evening before at an ATM in the area. But all starts with the gas stations.

4.) Another way would be looking for trailers of traveling craftsmen around. Roofers and so on, we had that in the last pms. I doubt in the meantime, he lives in a pension, he has some place with privacy. One can't go and cur a body to pieces out in the public, people would be annoyed.

5.) There is a slim chance, I am wrong and the cross is more than a red herring. Then he would have searched a church the day before the abduction. I am not sure, how to check that though.

So those are my new thoughts, what I said earlier stays valid. Does WS have anybody in the area?

Here is the second part of that, after seeing the cross. Keep in mind, I didn't know there was a different design on the back. I thought it was just those 3 on the front.


Well, it has an eight-corner shape and it was made by a bad carver, which makes me think, he made it himself. It's pretty dark, so ha had it for some time - or the person he got it from, had it for a long time. Noticeable is the smooth surface. Means, it has been touched a lot. So, question is, is it his in the first place? It can be for example from his first victim. Nevertheless, even in that case, he took it as more than a souvenir. He changed it by etching those notches in it. Well, or someone has.

Eight-corner-shape and three notches can be symbols of the eight Christian virtues and the Trinity. This would place it in the very fundamentalist Christian range. And since October 5th is also one of the original Roman holidays taken over by the Sol Invictus cult which then was united with the Christians by Emperor Constantine, Oct 5th is not too un-Christian. In fact, a lot of European Christian churches have the European version of Thanksgiving around that time. So, maybe it's not "opening of the underworld" but "bringing in the harvest". The problem is, police didn't tell as, what Jessica sexually assaulted in the first place. It's what everybody assumes, but we have no evidence. That doesn't mean, it didn't happen, but it means, we can't dismiss other types of perpetrators. Always popular is the religious delusional type or a combination of OCD and religious delusion. However, on that level of organization, I can't see a complete psychotic break, so if, it has to be a milder form than for example Chase or Mullin (both are on my website in the serial killer collection). Anyway, that would be some rare animal then.

So, bottom line: We can add maybe Christian raised to his profile. What I would need are photos from the area, the abduction happened and the dump site. Do you know by chance whether divers are looking for the head?

Peter

Pretty interesting, but probably not 100% accurate.
 
I thought I might as well throw out my :twocents: worth and it's JMO. I think the cross is from a ring rosary. Maybe it was an inexpensive trinket bought during a trip sometime to Europe by the perp or by a friend or family member. I don't think it was left by accident. I think it was intentionally left by the perp not because of any remorse but because it has some religious type meaning to him. I don't think this that guy is capable of feeling remorse.
I agree. The way the hole is bored at the top - through the sides and not front to back - indicates it probably is not a pendant. One can buy them here in the States, a trip through Europe (where I agree this type of rosary is more prevalent) probably wouldn't be necessary.

I also think the cross has a religious meaning to the person. It's not carried on whim, or as a gang thing.
 
LE's end goal is to find 'who' had the cross. Knowing 'where' it's sold would be significant. Knowing 'why' it's marked like that is insignificant until the determine 'who' it belongs to.

moo


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I think the markings could indicate what type person would buy/wear this cross or put those markings on it. Not saying it is significant, but think it could be. jmo
 
So I have seen quite a few comments trying to figure out if a person who made a weird YouTube video or wrote any comment that was slightly negative online might be involved. I kind of want to say: Welcome to the Internet. A high-profile murder involving (possible) dismemberment and a mysterious cross is going to attract all the trolls and weirdos.
 
Ok, last one, sorry if this profile stuff is annoying you guys. So after I sent peter a large extensive amount of pictures, video.. Etc. This is what he made of it.

Hi,

Thanks for the photos. I looked over and over the dump site and compared to Google maps and streetview and so on. The picture in not nice:

1.) The killer had no obvious reason to bring the body over the fence in the first place. Ifit wouldn't be for some trash truck workers who were unusually observant, the torso could have lain there for years without being noticed.

2.) Those pot smoking kids are not always there, and if then in those abandoned structures. Google photos shows some graffitis, including some that remind me to gang graffitis, but even more the general teenage variety. So, IMO, this is all evening activity, maybe till midnight, but not longer. After midnight, say in the early morning hours around 3 am, that area is virtually deserted.

3.) It is definitively the kind of area, I would expect from a psychopath as dumping ground. It has that sense of loneliness, wide space and almost heterogeneous wind noise over the grass. The vastness of space, Ian Brady called it one. And he should know, he buried his victims in Saddleworth Moor.

4.) Access to that stripe of land is possible, even with a vehicle, through a gate about 50ft west of the dump site. I can't see it on the photos, but I would guess, it is merely secured by a padlock, easy to crack, even easy to lock again, if one knows what he's doing.

So ... why the body there, why behind the fence? Why only the torso? The more I think about it, the more I suspect, the reason was some kind of keeping behavior. That means, technically, our killer had maybe some half mellowed idea of building a graveyard or, to put in more technical terms, a clustered grave site. As in in his mind, Jessica was only the first. At least as far as the Arvada area is considered. So, he maybe plays with the thought of moving there permanently.

He is not local or at least not recently, but maybe he tries to become local. He didn't know too much about the kids hanging out there, he didn't know, trash service goes along there. Which makes me think, he knows that place only in afternoon, night and maybe very early morning hours.

He is right handed, which doesn't help us much to know, because most people are right handed.

He is not an older SK coming out of retirement, or, at least, he isn't one from the Denver area. I've browsed over that article, you sent me. But the greater Denver area has about 1 million people. That gives them atany given time a base probability of two SKs and maybe one more dropping in from time to time (the mobile ones). So, having five or six active in a decade is for such an urban center not unusual. So, as scary as the mathematical probabilities are, Denver hadn't unusual many SKs. However, as I wrote earlier, our man has done time and he is rather in his 30s than under 30. He is controlled, he is experienced and he is highly organized. He is on top of actual SK knowledge. My guess, he is quickly approaching what Bundy called "the predator phase".

I also pondered about what the police officer said.In all the 27 years,this was the most gruesome crime ...you know the lines. This seems to indicate, the body was not only dismembered but there were additional mutilations. Police didn't tell us, but I could guess, cuts and stabs, stabs especially to the lower abdomen. If so, but I have no prove for that kind of mutilations in the first place, it's speculation, we don't talk about a pedophile who kills to cover his tracks, but we talk about a fully fledged psychopath/sadist type of offender. The kind, it wouldn't make me wonder, if police finds the heads in his place when they finally catch him.

Police also found some clothes and bagged them. I read for example socks. No information yet, if those clothes were related. Just worth keeping an eye on that aspect.

Putting all of this together, I think, he will strike again. Not tomorrow, but maybe in some weeks. The whole search for him can't go on at this speed and in like three or four weeks, after the elections, he will begone from the front pages. Give it some weeks more and then he will be good and ready to go for it again.

Peter
 
Sean.
Thanks for sharing the message from Peter.
I wonder if LE has asked all businesses with video to look for this person and if they can't see anything to SAVE the video.


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