CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #14

[otto]

I looked at that website and it was about Hebrew for christians. they are closely tied, although with their differences.

I had an odd thought today ... my father was Buddhist, my mother was Christian, my brother married a Muslim and their children are educated the in the Jewish school. They all have differences in philosophy, but for the most part ... there aren't any differences.

Any association between religion and the cross seems highly improbable. This guy is most likely 5'6" to 5"8". He wears a baseball cap to look younger and attacks joggers by trying to put a chemical soaked cloth over their face. He's probably a white guy, skinny to medium build ... at 5'6"-ish

"But Westminster Police say Monday about 1:15 p.m., a man attacked a 22-year-old woman as she jogged along the trail. Police say she passed the suspect once, as he walked the opposite way.

But when she looped around again, he was walking in the same direction and grabbed her as she ran by. She told police the suspect tried to put a cloth over her face, with some kind of chemical on it. She managed to fight him off and called 911 as he ran away."

 

[CHERIE.T]

Mix, my opinion is worth about 2 cents but I say forward it to LE.
What could it hurt! I find it very interesting.

 

[GrainneDhu]

When Jessica left her house that morning to walk to Chelsea Park, a mere 3 blocks away, was she seen by any of her neighbors, at any time within those 3 blocks?

Early on, LE said they had a possible witness who saw Jessica on her way to school. Nothing has been said about that witness since then.

So either the witness turned out to be mistaken or the witness is (very wisely) staying away from the media and does not want to draw any attention to themself.

 

[Nore]

This did occur during Hebrew holidays.
Don't all (body) parts have to be buried in Hebrew faith?

I think this I individual may be trying to make this about them, their past. Trying to link some religious significance to it. They think they are an integral part to a sacred plan.
They do not see themselves as we do.

-----------------
Hi Cybermom, yes the Hebrew faith does want all body parts buried together.:seeya:

 

[absentia]

if anyone is into the tree and triangle theory, check out this:

http://www.halexandria.org/dward001.htm

 

[Cybermom]

The police are not telling us and it appears will continue to not tell us how that cross was found, the exact circumstances of how or where it was found, and what else, if anything else, was found.

Trying to figure out the logistics and placement of that item at a crime scene is pretty futile because yes, anything is possible, but no one here knows or will know until that info eventually comes out.

Police aren't asking the public to figure out where the cross was found or how it was found or what it might mean or what the marks might mean. They are seeking assistance of anyone (i.e. a witness) who saw a light-skinned male, approximately 5'6 - 5'8 with brown hair who had, wore, or possessed such an item and/or knows of a local place of business in which such an item was sold in the Denver, CO area.

You are correct.
But motive and means and method can sometimes shed light.
Sometimes clues need to be turned over and inspected again and again and then there up is a "a ha" .
I get equally frustrated when people post things without reading the facts.
Some of us don't live local so chances are we haven't crossed paths with the perp. Our insight might help, even if it is only about the mindset of this person.

 

[TravelingBug]

Get the photos..and pics of races...guys with green shoes...see what comes up..certainly worth a shot. My guess if the guys a runner, its his shirt.

True. As long as he really ran. And they should look at the pics for those details and see if they find him - especially once they narrow down which shirt it was. But they may also find one - or dozens - of people in the race wearing green shoes, none of whom were him.

As we saw with John Gardner, preying on people running/walking/working out is a pretty easy deal, especially when people are simultaneously listening to an ipod or something. Chelsea and the other gal he tried to assault and rape both were working out. We don't know that JG was out there posing as a runner, but he probably also wasn't on the trails in a dress suit or something. Workout (or at least more grubbies) would have made him stand out less.

If the three incidents at the lake are related (the two runners and this boy) then he may well use looking like he fits right in as his MO to attract less attention to himself. So he could easily be wearing a running shirt to make it less odd if he's just lingering on trails looking for someone to assault. Heck, it would make it easy for him to run streets around schools, too.

A bunch of people commented on the biker in some of the JR pics earlier on and said he didn't seem to be dress appropriately (though he looked to me like someone biking to/from work or a more middle age person that just didn't invest in more proper biking attire) and they were wanting to send the pic in to the tipline.

If the cases here are all related, dressing like a runner could easily be the way he got around with repeatedly being in (and lingering in) areas where he'd be prone to find people who are vulnerable in more isolated areas.

But, then again, mabye he really is just a runner and it is his shirt.

 

[concentric]

Early on, LE said they had a possible witness who saw Jessica on her way to school. Nothing has been said about that witness since then.

So either the witness turned out to be mistaken or the witness is (very wisely) staying away from the media and does not want to draw any attention to themself.

---------
Or LE asked the witness not to talk about it.

 

[otto]

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Very good thinking. Also, wonder if investigators found clothing fibers on the fence?

I don't think that there were any clothes. In fact, there has been no mention of the clothes after police asked the public to focus on the gap in Jessica's teeth rather than what she was wearing. This was after the backpack was found. there was speculation that her clothes and glasses were found in the backpack.

Since the discovery of Jessica's body, there have been no requests to help locate articles of clothing.

 

[absentia]

True. As long as he really ran. And they should look at the pics for those details and see if they find him - especially once they narrow down which shirt it was. But they may also find one - or dozens - of people in the race wearing green shoes, none of whom were him.

As we saw with John Gardner, preying on people running/walking/working out is a pretty easy deal, especially when people are simultaneously listening to an ipod or something. Chelsea and the other gal he tried to assault and rape both were working out. We don't know that JG was out there posing as a runner, but he probably also wasn't on the trails in a dress suit or something. Workout (or at least more grubbies) would have made him stand out less.

If the three incidents at the lake are related (the two runners and this boy) then he may well use looking like he fits right in as his MO to attract less attention to himself. So he could easily be wearing a running shirt to make it less odd if he's just lingering on trails looking for someone to assault. Heck, it would make it easy for him to run streets around schools, too.

A bunch of people commented on the biker in some of the JR pics earlier on and said he didn't seem to be dress appropriately (though he looked to me like someone biking to/from work or a more middle age person that just didn't invest in more proper biking attire) and they were wanting to send the pic in to the tipline.

If the cases here are all related, dressing like a runner could easily be the way he got around with repeatedly being in (and lingering in) areas where he'd be prone to find people who are vulnerable in more isolated areas.

But, then again, mabye he really is just a runner and it is his shirt.

he could've gotten the shirt at a thrift store.

btw - I dislike greatly the "proper" biking attire

 

[GrainneDhu]

I thought of gang activity because I was thinking of the cross on rosary beads and seeing gang members do wear them.But I'm thinking her killing might be possibly more satanic.I do not know what happened to her.But I pray they do catch her killer very soon.

I doubt it is gang related because the abduction and murder of little girls with absolutely no gang connection is just not a gang thing to do.

Plus, chances are that this perp has lower than normal social skills; this is just a guess based on an FBI paper I read that said that, in general, perps that abduct/murder younger victims have low social skills. Having low social skills is not consistent with being in a gang. Being in a gang actually requires a high level of social skills because of the balance of cooperation, support and challenge involved.

Likewise, if this perp is satanic, he's a loner. He's not associated with any known group.

I still think that the cross was something the perp was given by someone who was significant to him (mother, sister, girlfriend). I don't think the cross, in and of itself, was that significant to him. Just the associations that particular cross had for him.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Miz,
The photos won't post for me.

 

[spamelope]

Thank you, Miz! I wish we had the images as well.

 

[Reannan]

If it helps, I saved A-rodd-777's pentagram map. Please delete if not OK to post.

 

[spoonco]

No, it didn't. The attempted abduction of the 8-year-old boy took place a mile or two east, either on or near the Big Dry Creek Trail, from what I can tell, in the Westcliff neighborhood. There are some things about the story in the newspaper that don't line up (i.e., there is no creek that runs directly out Ketner Reservoir along a trail, and some stories are reporting that the toy gun was thrown in a lake vs throw in a creek), but all of them reliably talk about the Westcliff neighborhood.

It's a short run from Ketner to the Big Dry Creek trail, and the Westcliff neighborhood is pretty close as well, from a running perspective.

You're totally right!!! I missed the Westcliff reference. You're right - this was at Big Dry Creek. (No clue where the other poster got Louisville??)

I think the only reason I saw the reference to this incident was because a member here posted it. Does LE think this is related? If it is, that's a boy, two adult women, and a young girl - if the same perp is involved, then it's not specifically a sexually-motivated person?

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I believe the cross is unlikely to carry any evidence itself.

The surface is too smooth for DNA and a quick wipe would elminate any fingerprints.

They also did not confirm which scene the cross was recovered from. It may be from the attempt on the jogger.

This leads me to two likelihoods -

The jogger's description may have included the perp wearing a cross, and this cross was recovered from Jessica's scene, or

It was found near the jogger, or she ripped it off in fighting him, it has no connection at all with Jessica, but it's the only clue they have and they are hoping the jogger's attack will lead them to Jessica's killer.

Personally I'm leaning toward the last option. They have no idea but it's a clue. It came from the jogger not Jessica.

Perhaps there is other religious-type evidence at Jessica's scene?

:cow:

I am incredibly behind... But the idea that the cross initially belonged to the jogger.. Then was transferred to a crime scene of Jessica's is very intriguing to me!

JMO

 

[Madeleine74]

You are correct.
But motive and means and method can sometimes shed light.
Sometimes clues need to be turned over and inspected again and again and then there up is a "a ha" .
I get equally frustrated when people post things without reading the facts.
Some of us don't live local so chances are we haven't crossed paths with the perp. Our insight might help, even if it is only about the mindset of this person.

That's true that motive, means, and method can shed light. We don't have any of that information though. We don't know where the cross was found, how it was found, who found it, what position it was in, whether it was on the ground, in something else, in the air, hanging, laying, sitting, leaning...we know nothing except what it looks like and it was found "at one of the crime scenes." We don't know if it got to wherever it got to accidentally or on purpose.

So -

- could it have been placed on purpose? Yes
- could it have fallen off accidentally? Yes
- could it have been at the body site? Yes
- could it have been placed on or near the body? Yes
- could it have been hanging on something nearby? Yes
- could it have been found not at the body site but in or near the backpack? Yes
- could it have a religious connotation? Yes
- could it have nothing to do with religion? Yes
- could it be something meaningful to the perp? Yes
- could it be something not meaningful to the perp? Yes
- could it have been worn around the neck? Yes
- could it have been carried in a pocket? Yes
- could it have been on a keychain? Yes
- could the perp be using it to taunt police? Yes
- could the perp be using it to show remorse? Yes
- could the perp have no special secret message and the item just fell off or out? Yes
- could it have been on a chain? Yes. A leather type necklace? Yes.

With the fact that we know nothing, any of those scenarios and many more are possible.

 

[GrainneDhu]

could the three lines on the cross be representative of three abductions/killings? IDK Just asking.

I don't think it really matters what the markings on that little cross represent. Who knows, maybe the perp's name is something like Isadore Isaac Ickes!

What is more important is: who has had possession of this particular little piece of wood in the past? Who did they pass it along to? Can the recipient account for it's whereabouts now?

 

[hollyblue]

I looked at that website and it was about Hebrew for christians. they are closely tied, although with their differences.

Agree, and very interesting website, but I think having a cross which is a symbol of Christianity with Hebrew writing, suggesting the Jewish faith, is a little odd. How many crosses have you seen with Herbrew letters on them? Granted the religions are closedly related and studied as such as well, but it's the symbols that are relavant, imo. It would be like finding a star of David with crosses or Islam symbols engraved in it. kwim? iMO

 

[otto]

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Hi Cybermom, yes the Hebrew faith does want all body parts buried together.:seeya:

Is there any religion that doesn't care if the body parts are all there?