CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #14

[concentric]

We know that it was found at a crime scene, it is pertinent. In a crime where the perp seems to be brazen yet calculating.
You can disregard my opinions, I will not be offended. I just think that it needs to be considered, worked over,
In the end it will all make sense but we aren't there yet, so it's a puzzle.

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Agree. I don't think anything is gained by limiting people's thought processes on possible peripheral connections that such a cross might have. There could be someone visiting this site for whom a certain train of thought sparks a memory, and then a lead.

 

[spoonco]

I think "that guy" is a generous tattoo artist that donated his time to tattoo in the park the other day.

ETA: when I blow that pic up it looks like that cross gas something in the center. Like a piece or metal or something. Can anyone else see that? I guess if he was one of those tattoo artists he would be on the other side. I can't really tell, but it looks like he is holding his wallet or something, but it appears those people next to him are asking him something, etc

I agree - looks like a crucifix on the rosary (i.e., a metal figure of Jesus attached to the wooden cross). And, it looks a little big. But - great eyes to even see this!

 

[wowitsdark]

Agree, and very interesting website, but I think having a cross which is a symbol of Christianity with Hebrew writing, suggesting the Jewish faith, is a little odd. How many crosses have you seen with Herbrew letters on them? Granted the religions are closedly related and studied as such as well, but it's the symbols that are relavant, imo. It would be like finding a star of David with crosses or Islam symbols engraved in it. kwim? iMO

I disagree that finding a cross with Hebrew symbols on it would be like finding a star of David with Islamic symbols on it.

Christianity is, for those of us who are of the Christian faith, the fulfillment of all that the Hebrews were intended 'for'. The point of the Hebrew / Jewish nation was to provide the lineage that would end in Christ, when Christianity was established. While Christians are not Jews, and the New Testament was written in Greek and not Hebrew, for Christians... there is a strong tie.

And while most Christian 'branches' don't revere Jewish tradition, there are some that do. Messianic Jews, for example may or may not be "Jewish" by virtue of their family heritage, but they are Christ-following people who believe that Christ's coming did not negate the requirements outlined in the Old Testament to celebrate the feasts, circumcise on the 8th day, rest on the Sabbath, etc.. As an example, "Sabbath" is actually a Saturday, so Messianic Jews maintain Saturday as a day of rest. They celebrate Christ and believe he was God's son, and hold fast to the traditions of Christ's heritage as a Jew.

So... I have no clue about that cross, but if it appears to have elements of both Christianity (the shape itself) and Judaism (in the markings), a connection to Messianic Judaism is possible.

It's also entirely possible, if it is a mass-produced item (either from China or from a Latin nation where there are always vendors with seemingly-identical hand-carved items on every corner), that it was picked up as a souvenir just because it was a cross, and some people like crosses... and they may not have understood there was anything "Hebrew" about it's markings.

 

[OwlMom]

But, I'd still say the green shoes and other description are worth looking through the Bolder Boulder pics. People tend to make that an annual event. Based on how fit the kids seem to think he was, he could be in one of the earlier waves, certainly a running wave. There are pictures taken all throughout that route, lots of angles.

At the risk of looking like a running geek, I wouldn't comb through literally thousands of pictures looking for someone with green running shoes. Many runners have more than one pair of running shoes and alternate them. The shoes a person chooses for a race may not be the same shoes they wear for everyday runs. I currently have three pairs of running shoes in my closet, and each is a different color combination and model. (I have a fourth pair used only for treadmill running; it's also a different brand and different color combo.) This isn't unusual for runners.

It would also be easier and faster for LE to look at males between the age of 20-35 or 20-40 from the Westminster/Arvada area who completed the BB during the past five years to see who's in the area. I'm not sure how effective that would be, but it's a smaller and more manageable search. There's probably not much point in doing it unless there's a reasonable amount of evidence suggesting that Jessica's killer was also a Bolder Boulder finisher.

 

[goaskalice]

My first thought when seeing the cross this morning is that it looks like something I have seen in the gift shop next to the Santuario de Chimayo in the village of Chimayo, New Mexico.

El Santuario de Chimayo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I also thought of Los Hermanos Penitentes.

http://www.rmpbs.org/byways/lca_penitentes.html

Penitentes in Colorado are thought to be centered around the San Luis Valley (around Alamosa) in southern Colorado.

The "slashes" on the back of the cross could represent the self-flagellation practiced by the Penitentes?

Possible that the perp is from southern Colorado but had to relocate to the more populated Denver/Boulder area in order to find employment?

Penitentes practice more openly in many towns and cities in Mexico. Their processions are subjects for many photographers.

Probably way off, but just tossing these thoughts out there.

It was very interesting, thank you.

 

[concentric]

Thanks Wendy101 for confirming to everyone here that according to my daily observations, sometimes men do wear rosaries, per my previous posts.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

My favorite part:
"Within minutes Jameson (the mother) reached the kids and they got in her car. When the children told her what had happened she called police and started searching for the man in her car.

"I was going to run him down and kill him," Jameson said."


Bold part added by me.

Lesson? .... Don't Mess With Us Moms!!!:furious::furious::furious:

 

[spoonco]

FWIW, I think the cross looks closest to a Celtic shape. This is the closest I've found:

But, the wood on the JR one looks more like rosewood or cherry wood. If rosewood, could be from Costa Rica. There are plenty of churches which do mission trips to Costa Rica. (Of course, not to say it isn't just simple jewelry from a festival or something mass produced, either!)

Thing is, I've never seen a cross with three lines on it. Those are significant, IMO. When Jessica's great-grandma was interviewed today she indicated police believe they are symbolic.

 

[tiredblondy]

Just an FYI bout the green shoes pict-that was the first picture I pulled up after the Westminister Parks and Rec facebook. It's one of the profile pictures in the album.

Don't know if it's significant or not but I was also trying to satisfy my curiosity about green and white running shoes without having the ad pop up constantly if I'd googled them.

 

[Wendy101]

Anyone know the name os the school she went to?

 

[Wendy101]

FWIW, I think the cross looks closest to a Celtic shape. This is the closest I've found:

But, the wood on the JR one looks more like rosewood or cherry wood. If rosewood, could be from Costa Rica. There are plenty of churches which do mission trips to Costa Rica. (Of course, not to say it isn't just simple jewelry from a festival or something mass produced, either!)

Thing is, I've never seen a cross with three lines on it. Those are significant, IMO. When Jessica's great-grandma was interviewed today she indicated police believe they are symbolic.

I don't think the cross was mass produced.. It is flawed IMO.. It is crooked..

 

[spoonco]

At the risk of looking like a running geek, I wouldn't comb through literally thousands of pictures looking for someone with green running shoes. Many runners have more than one pair of running shoes and alternate them. The shoes a person chooses for a race may not be the same shoes they wear for everyday runs. I currently have three pairs of running shoes in my closet, and each is a different color combination and model. (I have a fourth pair used only for treadmill running; it's also a different brand and different color combo.) This isn't unusual for runners.

Funny - A number of my friends and I have several pairs of shoes, but they are the same model (though, I agree - I have a "treadmill" pair).

It would also be easier and faster for LE to look at males between the age of 20-35 or 20-40 from the Westminster/Arvada area who completed the BB during the past five years to see who's in the area. I'm not sure how effective that would be, but it's a smaller and more manageable search. There's probably not much point in doing it unless there's a reasonable amount of evidence suggesting that Jessica's killer was also a Bolder Boulder finisher.

Now that's a pretty good idea! I'd also say that it would be so fantastic to find Jessica's killer, but even if a search somehow uncovered the creep that tried to grab that little boy, I think it's very much worth the look.

 

[goaskalice]

Gang violence is usually directed against other gangs, and/or is motivated by money or drugs. They don't typically have an incentive to abduct and mutilate little suburban girls.

I agree, it has nothing to do with any gang activity. This guy is a loner and so evil.

 

[hollyblue]

Are the three lines Hebrew? I missed that if it was talked about already. Anyone willing to fill me in
Purty please lease:

Just speculation by poster kateinfl. Search all her posts to find it or page back and skim the pages. It was only a few pages back, iirc.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

I don't think that there were any clothes. In fact, there has been no mention of the clothes after police asked the public to focus on the gap in Jessica's teeth rather than what she was wearing. This was after the backpack was found. there was speculation that her clothes and glasses were found in the backpack.

Since the discovery of Jessica's body, there have been no requests to help locate articles of clothing.

Hi all, trying to plow through these pages because there is so much. I am glad we are moving away from the cross topic a bit, I have to admit. I think people just need to think who could have been wearing it recently. In all honesty, the perp could have found it at a garage sale for all we know and it holds no other symbolism to him than 'a cross'. I do wonder if, like another poster mentioned, it got tangled and lost at the fence and he took off without realizing it or didn't want to be seen there looking for it.

As for the above post, going back to what Jessica was wearing that day, I can't imagine that a coat, shoes and all other belongings would fit in that backpack. If it was so cold that day, she must have had a heavy coat on. So where are the rest of her things?

 

[concentric]

Hi all, trying to plow through these pages because there is so much. I am glad we are moving away from the cross topic a bit, I have to admit. I think people just need to think who could have been wearing it recently. In all honesty, the perp could have found it at a garage sale for all we know and it holds no other symbolism to him than 'a cross'. I do wonder if, like another poster mentioned, it got tangled and lost at the fence and he took off without realizing it or didn't want to be seen there looking for it.

As for the above post, going back to what Jessica was wearing that day, I can't imagine that a coat, shoes and all other belongings would fit in that backpack. If it was so cold that day, she must have had a heavy coat on. So where are the rest of her things?

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My bold above. So people in the area should be looking for the perp. at garage sales?

Hey, that may hold some truth--for example, my newest crime theory is that there are some people who surreptitiously visit garage sales to case out if they can burglarize the homes.

 

[tiredblondy]

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My bold above. So people in the area should be looking for the perp. at garage sales?

Hey, that may hold some truth--for example, my newest crime theory is that there are some people who surreptitiously visit garage sales to case out if they can burglarize the homes.

I thought that was a fact! I know I've heard of that.:seeya:

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

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That is not what I meant.

I was saying that maybe LE found clothing fibers from the PERP that caught on the barbed-wire fence.

Thanks for posting this. I mentioned this a while back that I think the perp tossed the bag or body on the other side of the fence, not climbing under it. I noted that the second wrung on the fence looked like it had been pulled on- maybe for balance or maybe he almost fell throwing what he threw over. Furthermore, if he had a coat or gloves, I envision heavy worker gloves, and he could have left fibers there. Was that area muddy that night?

My other thought - sort of on another thing - is that I picture he stopped the car, got out fast, went to the fence and threw what he threw over, turned around, got back in the car and off he goes. He could have been in and out of there in less than 30 seconds. But no sir-eee did he not know there was trash pick up the next day, I think he knew this.

I think he's also communicating with the police and may be even sending them things of hers. I'd be scared to death living there with my daughter. This whole thing about him maybe being on here lurking has given me the creeps and even though I'm in Europe, I still changed my icon and removed my daughters picture from it.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

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My bold above. So people in the area should be looking for the perp. at garage sales?

Hey, that may hold some truth--for example, my newest crime theory is that there are some people who surreptitiously visit garage sales to case out if they can burglarize the homes.

I think more what I mean is that he could have gotten it second hand- could have been a gift, could have found it etc. My boyfriend has a similar thing and I asked him what it means and he said he got it at a festival because he liked the wood. Absolutely no religious meaning for him.

 

[otto]

I doubt it is gang related because the abduction and murder of little girls with absolutely no gang connection is just not a gang thing to do.

Plus, chances are that this perp has lower than normal social skills; this is just a guess based on an FBI paper I read that said that, in general, perps that abduct/murder younger victims have low social skills. Having low social skills is not consistent with being in a gang. Being in a gang actually requires a high level of social skills because of the balance of cooperation, support and challenge involved.

Likewise, if this perp is satanic, he's a loner. He's not associated with any known group.

I still think that the cross was something the perp was given by someone who was significant to him (mother, sister, girlfriend). I don't think the cross, in and of itself, was that significant to him. Just the associations that particular cross had for him.

BBM

That's the funny thing about sociopaths ... they come in two categories. Primarily, they are control freaks with freakish ideology, but they fall into either the category of low lifes, as you describe (low social skills), or highly successful, cut throat, ruthless business leaders with charming social skills.

I think that the "low social skills" association with aducting children FBI "report" relates to someone with a low IQ that only inappropriately wants to be with young girls. We're dealing with an adult like that ... I think ... one that is higher functioning than the 14 lyear old mentally challenged village idiot ... low social skills, but sociopathic in the sense of beliving himself smarter than everyone.