CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #21

[AstroKitty]

I keep flashing to the documentary "Child of Rage" when I picture is mom turning him in. But I have no basis of how his behavior or diagnoses was.

 

[cleo612]

Nursebeeme posted an article either late last night or thi morning discussing a reverse-transfer hearing which the defense attorney has requested. He is atempting to keep this case in the juvenile courts so that his client is not tried via the adult court system.

In the article it stated that during this reverse-transfer hearing a great deal of the evidence against the accused must be presented by the prosecutor to the judge in support of keeping the case in the adult court system.

We may or may not hear of this evidence--given that a gag order has been issued now. I am not sure how this evidence will be handled--if it is a public hearing then obviously the evidence would be available to the public, but if it is a closed-door hearing, then we may not. I cannot see how they could make this a closed-door hearing, however.

Does anyone know when this reverse-transfer hearing is to be held and if it will be open to the public?

 

[absentia]

here it is!
http://missingpersonsnews.com/archives/5469

"This new information comes on the heels of a tip sent to MPN Sunday with the name of a man fitting the description of the alleged attacker. A Westminster, CO, resident contacted our team via e-mail to provide the name of a man she feels fits the suspect description to “a tee.” A recent plea from the Westminster PD for assistance in identifying a cross found during the investigation sparked the tip to our team, as the man she named has “recently taken an interest in the Bible.” MPN investigated the information; and upon discovering a man with the same name fitting the suspect’s description lives in Jessica’s neighborhood, immediately forwarded the tip and our discoveries to the Westminster PD."

 

[otto]

Nursebeeme posted an article either late last night or thi morning discussing a reverse-transfer hearing for which the dfense attorney has requested. He is atempting to keep this case in the juvenile courts so that his client is not tried via the adult court system.

In the article it stated that during this reverse-transfer hearing a great deal of the evidence against the accused must be presented by the prosecutor to the judge in support of keeping the case in the adult court system.

We may or may not hear of this evidence--given that a gag order has been issued now. I am not sure how this evidence will be handled--if it is a public hearing then obviously the evidence would be available to the public, but if it is a closed-door hearing, then we may not. I cannot see how they could make this a closed-door hearing, however.

Does anyone know when this reverse-transfer hearing is to be held and if it will be open to the public?

"Sigg's defense lawyers will likely move for a reverse-transfer hearing, said Kim Dvorchak, director of the Colorado Juvenile Defender Coalition.

This legal procedure — allowed under House Bill 1271, signed by the governor in April — would require the prosecution to make a case for why Sigg should not be tried in juvenile court.

Supporters of the law that changed the longstanding "direct file" system that allowed DAs to decide who should be tried as an adult say it assures fair prosecution of youth offenders.

...

If he is convicted as a minor charged as an adult, Sigg faces life in prison with the possibility of parole after 40 years on a single first-degree murder charge. Convictions on the additional charges would lengthen the sentence, Dvorchak said."


http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21857895/jessica-ridgeway-suspect-one-first-through-new-juvenile

 

[Myanna]

Just an aside--Although they are an easy target, please try not to be too hard on the defense attorneys. Try to remember that the defense attorneys are not only there to insure their clients get a fair trial, they are also doing their job to try and support the whole “system” and uphold the constitutional rights that all of us have and want. It is part of a “checks and balances” system. I was a student public defender at a jail during law school. It was quite a lesson in ethics and rights. Although I was sometimes horrified about what my clients had allegedly done, I was also horrified at the rampant inequities in the system and the violation of some of my clients’ basic rights when going through the system. I knew that part of my job was trying to protect those rights and try to stop a slippery slope of violations against the innocent even if I did suspect they were guilty. Not everyone who is arrested is guilty. And, people who are not guilty sometimes get convicted and even get the death penalty. We want to do our best to make sure this doesn’t happen. In this case, the evidence really seems to be concrete against him, so it is difficult for us to apply the importance of those protections while talking about this case. Public defenders are horribly underfunded and often try to juggle a huge caseload. IMO, I almost wish that the person in custody in this case hires his own attorney. That may help protect against claims later that he had ineffective counsel. I also questioned in an earlier thread about the admissibility of the confession. I did some general, preliminary research and it appears that while the defense should argue to get it thrown out, it is probably not likely that they will succeed, IMO. There doesn’t appear to be a bright line test about waiving Miranda rights for minors in Colorado and that the same tests that apply to adults applies to the minors when considering admissibility of a confession. I'm not licensed in Colorado though and that is just my general opinion, FWIW.

 

[nursebeeme]

Last warning about speculation about Sigg's Mother. This has been repeated since Sigg's arrest and from this point forward I don't want to see another post accusing her or speculation about her. :tos:

 

[Confusion]

Just a quick newbie post on why he'd submit to DNA collection:

<SNIP>

I just figured LE showed up at their home asking for help with the case and wanting DNA. Mom and little brother were happy to help out, what was he going to do say no? My guess is that anyone who refused would automatically become suspect, plus how will he explain a NO to his mom? JMO

I just assumed he did it because he was so sure he'd gotten rid of all of his DNA from the body, but he didn't realize he'd left some on the backpack and/or clothes.

Austin Sigg is an anomaly.
I do not agree with this expert, that broken families, criminal parents and being bullied caused this to do what he did.
Sigg's drive was not a learned behavior. No way can anyone convince me of that.

If broken families, criminal parents and being bullied caused people to do this kind of thing, it wouldn't even be news anymore. It would be happening several times a day.
<modsnip>

Im not sure how? Whoever I was responding to stated he would enter into a plea deal for LWOP. But since he is not eligible for the death penalty, I asked how LWOP would be a deal for him. Since there is no sentence worse than death after LWOP, your answer makes little sense to me.

<SNIP>

You asked how a plea would be a deal for him. I didn't see you ask how LWOP would be a deal for him. I think I made it pretty obvious in my post that I wasn't saying that LWOP would be a deal for him.

 

[The Farm]

:seeya: hehe I feel like you're describing me.

Oh Noooooooooo, I should have said not all!!!!!! And it is not all but many. It is like they are on another plain!
Please no one take it personally!

 

[Wondergirl]

3 Houses Back and still no Dismemberment Crime Scene:

GRACE: To Rita Cosby, CSI text we`re now getting reports say this crime scene could extend three more houses back. But did he hide body parts in other people`s crawl spaces and houses?

RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, AUTHOR OF "QUIET HERO": Well, that`s what`s interesting. Authorities are saying specifically three houses behind his that they have blocked it off with yellow tape. Also they are saying that they have not found, Nancy, the secondary crime scene where he dismembered her. So there`s a lot more to come in this case.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1210/25/ng.01.html

 

[Jax49]

here it is!
http://missingpersonsnews.com/archives/5469

"This new information comes on the heels of a tip sent to MPN Sunday with the name of a man fitting the description of the alleged attacker. A Westminster, CO, resident contacted our team via e-mail to provide the name of a man she feels fits the suspect description to “a tee.” A recent plea from the Westminster PD for assistance in identifying a cross found during the investigation sparked the tip to our team, as the man she named has “recently taken an interest in the Bible.” MPN investigated the information; and upon discovering a man with the same name fitting the suspect’s description lives in Jessica’s neighborhood, immediately forwarded the tip and our discoveries to the Westminster PD."

I wonder if the name sent to MPN was AS or someone else? Has anyone heard anything about AS taking an interest in the Bible?

Even if it wasn't AS, LE would have caught him when the DNA swabs were tested. MOO

 

[Confusion]

"Sigg's defense lawyers will likely move for a reverse-transfer hearing, said Kim Dvorchak, director of the Colorado Juvenile Defender Coalition.

This legal procedure — allowed under House Bill 1271, signed by the governor in April — would require the prosecution to make a case for why Sigg should not be tried in juvenile court.

Supporters of the law that changed the longstanding "direct file" system that allowed DAs to decide who should be tried as an adult say it assures fair prosecution of youth offenders.
...
If he is convicted as a minor charged as an adult, Sigg faces life in prison with the possibility of parole after 40 years on a single first-degree murder charge. Convictions on the additional charges would lengthen the sentence, Dvorchak said."
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21857895/jessica-ridgeway-suspect-one-first-through-new-juvenile

In theory, this is a good idea. A 12 year old who receives a life sentence and gets psychiatric help and schooling for 40 years could quite possibly be an asset to society when released. The problem comes from cases like this one. If he survives for 40 years, but hasn't really changed any mentally/emotionally during that time, how many people standing up for Jessica now will still be around, and still remember her, when his parole hearings come around?

 

[EmilyB]

3 Houses Back and still no Dismemberment Crime Scene:



http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1210/25/ng.01.html

Maybe because there was an accomplice and it was done at HIS house? You would think they would have that crime scene found by now....

 

[Lois Lane]

Lois, this article says he can get life in prison but they must have a sentencing hearing in order for that to happen. (he also will have to be tried and convicted as an adult)
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...-murder-austin-sigg-appears-in-court-thursday

Thank you very much, nursebeeme. That's (more or less) what I've been wanting to see in the contemporary reporting.

Straight from the prosecuting District Attorney:

BBM

Yet, even if Sigg is tried as an adult and convicted of first-degree murder, because he's a juvenile he cannot face the death penalty or be given a sentence of mandatory life in prison without the possibility of parole, [Jefferson County District Attorney Scott] Storey said.

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in June that sentencing a juvenile murder offender to mandatory life in prison without parole is cruel and unusual punishment in violation of the Constitution's Eighth Amendment.

However, Justice Elena Kagan's majority decision did not completely eliminate life-without-parole sentences for juveniles convicted of murder. She ruled out automatic life sentences, writing that "a judge or jury must have the opportunity to consider mitigating circumstances before imposing the harshest possible penalty for juveniles."

The high court banned the juvenile death penalty in 2005.

Storey said the June Supreme Court ruling made the current law on life-without-parole sentences for juveniles "murky."

So, even if Sigg is convicted of murder, Storey said, "because he's a juvenile we would have to have a sentencing hearing to see if he would actually even get life."

Notice that Storey is not quoted as saying (BBM) "because he's a juvenile we would have to have a sentencing hearing to see if he would actually even get life without parole."

However, I can't imagine any scenario (from what we know at this time) where a judge would not allow a life sentence for this defendant.

JMO, but I suspect that conversation between the reporter and Storey was significantly truncated. From all that I've been able to gather on the subject, I suspect that is because there is not a simple answer to the question and because legal intricacies are often very difficult to parse down in a comprehensive manner that works within the column inch allowance for a particular article. Deadline pressures and competitiveness in the news business can also be a hindrance.

As I'm pondering what I have read about the 2006 Act of the Colorado Assembly, what is stated in SCOTUS Miller v. Alabama (2012) and incorporating what Storey is cited as saying, I'm getting a glimmer of why it seems somewhat elusive to pin down a definitive answer at this time.

I'm a pretty big fan of due process and the courts systems, including the all-important roles of the prosecutors. From past experience, I rely upon the prosecutors to be a definitive source as interpreting the law unless and until a presiding judge (or an appeals court) corrects them.

So far from what I've seen from Storey, he appears to be a very deliberate person who will proceed cautiously through the "murk" to ensure that this prosecution proceeds in a manner that is on solid ground.

I'll stop boring y'all with my ramblings on this topic for now.

 

[nursebeeme]

Maybe because there was an accomplice and it was done at HIS house? You would think they would have that crime scene found by now....

they may well have found the crime scene. I do not believe there was an accomplice.:twocents:

 

[mck16]

In theory, this is a good idea. A 12 year old who receives a life sentence and gets psychiatric help and schooling for 40 years could quite possibly be an asset to society when released. The problem comes from cases like this one. If he survives for 40 years, but hasn't really changed any mentally/emotionally during that time, how many people standing up for Jessica now will still be around, and still remember her, when his parole hearings come around?

Do you think this will really happen. It's prison not a rehab center. I know in theory they are supposed to rehabilitate but how many do? jmo

 

[DylansMom34]

They probably know the crime scene but there is a gag order and unless someone wants to find themselves in contempt of court, they should be keeping their mouths shut about any more specifics.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

We were given this in Sept at school. Just myself and another student had the same score. I find that scoring so situational though because I know, at least to me, that my answers would be different if I had taken it even 3 years ago. But the 3 main points rarely change much (so they say).

My thoughts, though it has been years since I took personality psych - I know something that I would consider major that has changed for me since my teen years is that I never would've considered myself a team player. I don't know how key or not that is for MB, but it seems like a big deal to me. It is just that I hadn't had the right opportunity to feel like I was an important part of a team, but now that I do, I have developed into a team player and I am so glad. So I agree with you, maybe the basics don't typically change but given the right conditions they can.

 

[human]

I would agree that domestic violence is a learned behavior, but, I am specifically referring to the act of stalking, murdering and dismembering a person.

Dismembering a human being, and the predisposition to do what this vacant monster has done, is NOT a learned behavior, regardless of exposure to whatever.

It's in the brain/genetics, there is something wrong, it is psychotic, similar to Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy.

I might add, that there would be zero chance of rehabilitating a monster such as what Sigg stands admitted and accused of.

JMO

If you read about the life of Bundy and Dahmer, you will see what their home lives were like. Perhaps a few cracks to the head by a parent or someone else altered their brains.

But a child cannot be raised in horrific situations like that and not become toxic. Generally speaking, women turn the self loathing to themselves. Males turn outwardly. Ed Ghein had his interests as well that we not learned, but his home life sure made him what he was, I feel

 

[nursebeeme]

Nursebeeme posted an article either late last night or thi morning discussing a reverse-transfer hearing which the defense attorney has requested. He is atempting to keep this case in the juvenile courts so that his client is not tried via the adult court system.

In the article it stated that during this reverse-transfer hearing a great deal of the evidence against the accused must be presented by the prosecutor to the judge in support of keeping the case in the adult court system.

We may or may not hear of this evidence--given that a gag order has been issued now. I am not sure how this evidence will be handled--if it is a public hearing then obviously the evidence would be available to the public, but if it is a closed-door hearing, then we may not. I cannot see how they could make this a closed-door hearing, however.

Does anyone know when this reverse-transfer hearing is to be held and if it will be open to the public?

I don't think the reverse transfer hearing has been scheduled as he has not even been charged yet. (that will be next week)

First they have to (the prosecutor) say they are trying him as an adult and then (from what I am reading) they will move for a reverse transfer hearing to argue against (seems like it is just the logical thing in this situation according to the article).

It seems like we are in for a really long and drawn out legal process imhoo. I hope that Sigg is on suicide precautions in the meantime. (re: keep thinking of Ryan Brunn)

 

[Just K]

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...-murder-austin-sigg-appears-in-court-thursday

they also say at the bottom of this article that Arvada police want to question him re: attempted abductions (candyman)

One article, last night, suggested that LE in the Virgin islands are interested in further details of his visit, in May 2012, to their country.