CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #21

[AstroKitty]

IDK anything for sure & I'm just jumping off Astro's post here. However, I read article from MSM that said DNA was found on backpack (and/or contents?)

Also, if my notes are correct, a 10/19/12 CBS4 article reported that the DNA from the guy arrested due to having his mother's dismembered remains in his car, eliminated him as suspect in JR's case.

I have always believed that the cross was from the site of Memorial wkend attack on 22 y.o. jogger. I believe it had perp's DNA, but that they found no match in databases. I believe DNA on that cross and on JR's backpack turned out to be a match, but again, not in databases. IMHO

Also, IMO, the only reason there's an Oct. 2012 date on the photo of the cross is that no photo was made of the cross until the DNA on it was a match to the DNA on a murdered child's backpack.

Awesome new spins to this! I would have never thought about the cross belonging to someone else. TY!

 

[Etilema]

I babysat a little boy when I was a teenager whom I am quite sure was a born psychopath. His Mom was this crunchy, love the world hippie. He had a younger sister and father was out of the picture. He was 8 and little sis was around 5. Anyhow the one and only time I babysat, he tried to kill his sister several times---made clothesline booby traps out of wire, put her in a tree and told her to jump, locked me out of the house, tried to poison the food, and was generally a terrifying child. At 16 or so I was so exasperated at the end of the night I spanked him once on the butt--hard--and he let out a howl that still haunts me because it didn't sound childlike or human. I felt awful for spanking him and broke down apologizing and crying to his mom because I felt so guilty. She was totally understanding and had that sad look of losing another babysitter. She tried calling me back several times but I always made excuses and she finally got the clue.

I get edgy thinking he's an adult now.

I had a similar babysitting experience, so I almost wondered if it was the same kid--but the kid's mom that I babysat for wasn't a hippie.

Still, you can't say he was born that way, because we have no idea what happened to him in the 8 years before you met him. However, there are kids who have a lot of aggression and difficult personalities and their parents and other adults are at a loss as to how to help them.

JMO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Desdemona]

Exactly! It was prime take your kid to school time. He had presumably dropped his brother off at school then grabbed her, who was heading to meet her friend (at an undetermined location). Where were all the other kids and parents? No one saw a thing?

If he did use chloroform, then why the need to hog tie her? If he strangled her right away, then why hogtie her?

BBM: I have a question. *If* it is true that he dropped off his brother at school that morning, as has been suggested and discussed, what time would he have then been free to commit the crime(s)?

Please, no sleuthing of brother or where he goes to school!!

I'm asking, do we know by what time of the morning the brother would have been dropped off, leaving AS alone in the vehicle to drive through the neighborhood and accost poor Jessica? TIA

 

[otto]

Could you please give any examples of people who had good childhoods that are serial killers?

There was a poster who said she was a professional that worked with people who said they had wonderful childhoods, but she had the records of the abuse reports etc.

That is my experience as well. People thinking they had good childhoods, but either they are in denial, or they have no clue what a loving childhood is

Joran van der Sloot: two murders of young women, father: prosecutor, mother: art teacher, privileged, happy home, good education, bright future, two other children in the family pursuing professional careers.

I would likewise be very interested in links to research that documents a direct link between an unfortunate childhood and serial murderer behavior. It simply isn't there. For decades, researchers have attempted to identify markers that can predict sociopathic, or serial murderer behavior. Everything from phrenology to brain size and, most recently, DNA, have been explored. To date, there is no correlation between physical characteristics, or environmental influences, and sociopathy, or serial murderers.

The above is based on studies in various fields, and I don't have time to search for related links.

 

[otto]

In response to a question yesterday about whether there was a pool at the suspect's home, the answer is yes. Also, there is a partial basement, which suggests to me that the other half is a crawl space under the house and accessible through the basement. Thanks to Marnie for the link

 

[AstroKitty]

Dumb questions but it's this a tri-level house. I just remember a friend living in the suburbs and every few houses would be like this. You would walk in and be in the foyer but there was a stair case leading down and one leading up. The downstairs was a furnished basement that was huge and the upstairs had the kitchen, living room and 2 bedrooms / 1 bath. I wouldn't know where the crawlspace would in a house like that though.

It reminds me of those houses though (Brady bunch homes as we called them).

 

[smh]

Wonder what their basement was used for. If it was a partial basement, it probably wasn't that big. Maybe AS used it as a bedroom. Maybe mom didn't go down there very much.

 

[smh]

Dumb questions but it's this a tri-level house. I just remember a friend living in the suburbs and every few houses would be like this. You would walk in and be in the foyer but there was a stair case leading down and one leading up. The downstairs was a furnished basement that was huge and the upstairs had the kitchen, living room and 2 bedrooms / 1 bath. I wouldn't know where the crawlspace would in a house like that though.

It reminds me of those houses though (Brady bunch homes as we called them).

It does look like a tri-level. The basements are usually pretty small in these and would be finished. Sometimes, the basement is a bedroom but it could also be a small den. The crawl space would be accessed by a small "door" in the wall. I say "door" cause you can't walk through it...the ones I've seen have to be crawled into.

 

[iamnotagolem]

BBM: I have a question. *If* it is true that he dropped off his brother at school that morning, as has been suggested and discussed, what time would he have then been free to commit the crime(s)?

Please, no sleuthing of brother or where he goes to school!!

I'm asking, do we know by what time of the morning the brother would have been dropped off, leaving AS alone in the vehicle to drive through the neighborhood and accost poor Jessica? TIA

We do not know what time he dropped off his brother or where, we don't know where he attended school. Only that AS attended Witt Elementary when he was younger.

I also wonder if he dropped his brother off at school, did he also pick him up? Does this cut into the amount of time he would have to accomplish his crimes?

 

[StJohn]

Question I had is why didn't anyone see him in the process of hogtieing her?

Ok, so he puts her in the car, I assume she is screaming unless he had chloroform. But it does not seem like he set out to do this that day so maybe he did not have chloroform. He gets her in the car and ties her up. That had to take a few minutes, right? And the car would have been stopped right on the street w a kid screaming fighting off being tied up.

Was it just dumb luck that no one drove by? A car idling there would have attracted notice. Plus he would have had to drive her somewhere. Did no one see him at a stoplight, etc w a girl hogtied in the car?

Oh and he also says he strangled her, apparently while driving I think. How could that have happened? I read it takes a few minutes to strangle. She had to have been upright if he was in drivers seat. Would no one have not seen him in the 4 minutes or so he strangled her? The car would have been driven somewhat erratically if one was driving and strangling someone.

It does not add up, IMO. I think she has to have been knocked out quick. As the murder happened at a secondary scene not the car. I think someone would have seen if the murder happened in the car and he hogtied her,

I agree with everything you are saying. So if he didn't kill her right away, why is he lying about it? Could it be he feels shame or remorse about something he did to her prior to killing her? Can't hardly stand to think about that.

 

[StJohn]

BTW - when I hit "thanks" on some posts, it is not showing up. So thanks to those of you who are contributing, even if it isn't showing up on your posts

 

[KMouse]

It would be rather impossible to hogtie a person in a car on a street without being seen. Given of course that he did a real hogtie. I'm pretty well versed in BDSM and as soon as I read it I went "liar".
I do not think he soaked that rag with any knock out chemicals. I think he just soaked it in chemicals. I believe he was being manic in the abduction attempts (meaning, he probably has little impulse control) and it's not as well thought out as we would think it is. But he would never admit to that, because in doing so it would be admitting he didn't have full control.
I think the rag and the tying up are all fetishes of his but he's 17 and doesn't know how to exact them. He's watching *advertiser censored* and assuming that's "real life". Forgetting that it's all staged. With my background (I'm not sure I can be a verified BDSM specialist here but hey mods .. if you need one, lol I can be verified!) and knowledge, most people starting out in Sadistic behaviors with lust behind them, begin with what they see, be it old detective magazines to *advertiser censored*. They don't grasp how to get the person there though, the lure. They concentrate on what they want to DO after the person is in their control. This is why often times, as adults they seek out pro dominatrixes or pro subs, who guide them and they act it out with a consenting adult verses the alternative.

My opinion and 12 years of knowledge within that community.

I disagree.
It would be pretty easy to hogtie a person in a vehicle. Especially a victim that has been surprised and is smaller and weaker than the attacker. Even if the perp did not use a chemical and just used a rag over the victims face would incapacitate them. To hogtie somebody takes seconds. Zip ties are readily available and take seconds.

There have been lot of kids and adults grabbed off the streets in broad daylight. Look at Victoria Stafford. She was grabbed after school and shoved into the back of a car. She wasn't hogtied and the murderers did not use chemicals.

If somebody grabbed me from behind and even just put their hand over my mouth I would't be able to breathe because of the panic.

 

[summer_breeze]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...57f950-1f9b-11e2-8817-41b9a7aaabc7_story.html

By Associated Press, Updated: Friday, October 26, 2:33 PM

DENVER — Police in a Colorado town where the body of a missing 10-year-old girl was found want to question a teenage suspect in two unsolved child enticement cases.

 

[otto]

Re: the warrior gene aka MOA (MOA-A & MOA-B)

"MAOs are extremely important for proper brain function as they inactivate neurotransmitters. When MAOs are in over abundance, there is too much inactivation of neurotransmitters. Neurological disorders like depression, criminal behavior, phobias, ADD, and addiction can arise. In fact, a major treatment for depression is MAO inhibitors..." (MAOI's)

http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/2006/08/10/the-maori-mao-inhibitors-and-t/

Healthy skepticism is needed with any studies attempting to predict criminal behavior.

The "warrior gene" study documentary:

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/are-you-good-or-evil/

"A century-and-a-half ago, a tape measure was an even more useful tool than it is now: You could use it to predict who was going to commit a crime."

"While neurocriminology has come a long way from the days of measuring murderers’ skull circumferences, it still raises fundamental questions about how justice systems should operate. As Raine puts it: “If offenders have brain dysfunction for reasons beyond their control, should they be held fully responsible for their crimes?”

http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/current/2011-03-24/research/can-science-predict-criminal-behavior

 

[Marnie]

It does look like a tri-level. The basements are usually pretty small in these and would be finished. Sometimes, the basement is a bedroom but it could also be a small den. The crawl space would be accessed by a small "door" in the wall. I say "door" cause you can't walk through it...the ones I've seen have to be crawled into.

This is what I think as well, smh. Here is a photo of a house very nearby AS'. It's a little newer (1975) but basically the same sort of layout:

 

[FrayedKnot]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...57f950-1f9b-11e2-8817-41b9a7aaabc7_story.html

By Associated Press, Updated: Friday, October 26, 2:33 PM

Whaaaa?

Oh Holy Hell.

 

[OwlMom]

Yes, I can see why the Honorable Judge(wink/wink) would want to issue the gag order with the number of abduction attempts in the Denver area in the past year and with Elections less than two weeks away..

Why not, seems that there has been an unofficial gag order issued on the many abduction attempts and the state of Public Safety for the area's citizens for over a year prior to Jessica Ridgeway's tragic abduction/murder...

'The CO citizens deserve the truth.. Without public safety for our families, friends, and loved ones, we have nothing'...

? Colorado Springs is not "the area" when one is talking about Westminster/Arvada or even "north/northwest Denver 'burbs." Pueblo is not "the area." And the rest of the attempts are unsolved and likely by two or three different people who the police haven't caught.

Whether the truth comes out before or after a trial is not necessarily connected to public safety. I'm also not sure what benefit there would be to having the prosecution disclose everything now. As a community, we're already horrified. It's true that the rumors flying--many of which contradict each other!!--aren't helping, but if the suspect is caught and if they have every reason to believe he acted alone, it's hardly a public safety issue.

I thought that if you murdered someone you get either the death penalty or life in prison. Seriously, they are going to let this guy out to torture and kill again!!??

There hasn't been a trial yet, much less a conviction and sentence. The lightest sentence he could receive would put him in for 40 years. Perhaps someone has seen something to indicate that he would receive a light sentence? I haven't and think it's far too early to predict his sentence. The public defenders are just doing their job, and sure, it may be offensive to some in a case that seems cut and dried, but a good defense is one of our Constitutional rights as a U.S. citizen and I'm not willing to toss out a right that applies to this suspect just as much as it does to me.

I really think the whole thing should be credited to the neighborhood woman...
<modsnip>

Maybe. There were only 1000 tips given to LE. Hers happened to be right. And I think our LE did a fabulous job. Even if they wouldn't have picked him up that night because he confessed, I'm sure they would have caught him eventually. More importantly, their hard work is exactly why they have a ton of evidence that will put him away for long beyond the 40 years people are so worried about.

I'm beginning to realize it's time for me to distance myself from most of the media coverage. It's interesting how many of the stories have contradictory details: he was a loner, someone saw him with friends when running with her dog and thought he was terrifying, lab partners thought he was perfectly normal and not weird, others claim he was completely bizarre, the obligatory bullying issue has to be brought up whether or not there's any connection, and then there's more coverage of friends and neighbors who never suspected anything and random people who barely knew him who could just tell that he was "off." Sure.

I think I'm going to sit patiently and wait for the truth from police records and such to come out during the trial before believing people who want to be on TV or other unverified rumors. If there are easy answers here, I don't see it. It's hard to believe there are easy answers about 17-year-olds who kill other kids like this, or that he could be neatly linked to every abduction attempt in the area (Westy-Arvada maybe Thornton area) like in a TV crime movie.

 

[mck16]

It would be rather impossible to hogtie a person in a car on a street without being seen. Given of course that he did a real hogtie. I'm pretty well versed in BDSM and as soon as I read it I went "liar".
I do not think he soaked that rag with any knock out chemicals. I think he just soaked it in chemicals. I believe he was being manic in the abduction attempts (meaning, he probably has little impulse control) and it's not as well thought out as we would think it is. But he would never admit to that, because in doing so it would be admitting he didn't have full control.
I think the rag and the tying up are all fetishes of his but he's 17 and doesn't know how to exact them. He's watching *advertiser censored* and assuming that's "real life". Forgetting that it's all staged. With my background (I'm not sure I can be a verified BDSM specialist here but hey mods .. if you need one, lol I can be verified!) and knowledge, most people starting out in Sadistic behaviors with lust behind them, begin with what they see, be it old detective magazines to *advertiser censored*. They don't grasp how to get the person there though, the lure. They concentrate on what they want to DO after the person is in their control. This is why often times, as adults they seek out pro dominatrixes or pro subs, who guide them and they act it out with a consenting adult verses the alternative.

My opinion and 12 years of knowledge within that community.

When I first heard he had hogtied JR I thought how funny that a city kid would even know that term. We used it on the ranch so of course this was my first thought. I had no idea it was a bondage term. 17 years old and using bondage terms is very sad and telling to me. jmo

 

[borndem]

I just figured LE showed up at their home asking for help with the case and wanting DNA. Mom and little brother were happy to help out, what was he going to do say no? My guess is that anyone who refused would automatically become suspect, plus how will he explain a NO to his mom? JMO

bbm
SweetT, that's exactly what happened in a 1st Degree burglary/rape/murder case in Raleigh, NC. The suspect was convicted and now is in prison for LWOP which is indeed LWOP in NC.

LE was canvassing the neighborhood around the murder scene, asking for a cheek swab for DNA from the men, and one man refused. He already had 2 previous convictions for 2nd-degree burglaries (probation-only sentence -- when he was in high school).

LE immediately was assigned 24-hour surveillance of this individual, and within days they confiscated a tossed-out cigarette butt and it matched DNA left on & in the victim.

Voila --> probable cause for arrest & search warrants, & that was the beginning of the end for this individual. The long arm of the law prevailed in this one... Just goes to show, there is more than one way to skin a rat.

 

[DeAnn]

Question I had is why didn't anyone see him in the process of hogtieing her?

Ok, so he puts her in the car, I assume she is screaming unless he had chloroform. But it does not seem like he set out to do this that day so maybe he did not have chloroform. He gets her in the car and ties her up. That had to take a few minutes, right? And the car would have been stopped right on the street w a kid screaming fighting off being tied up.

Was it just dumb luck that no one drove by? A car idling there would have attracted notice. Plus he would have had to drive her somewhere. Did no one see him at a stoplight, etc w a girl hogtied in the car?

Oh and he also says he strangled her, apparently while driving I think. How could that have happened? I read it takes a few minutes to strangle. She had to have been upright if he was in drivers seat. Would no one have not seen him in the 4 minutes or so he strangled her? The car would have been driven somewhat erratically if one was driving and strangling someone.

It does not add up, IMO. I think she has to have been knocked out quick. As the murder happened at a secondary scene not the car. I think someone would have seen if the murder happened in the car and he hogtied her,

Popping in for the first time in 24 hours or so. I thought the hogtying was strictly rumor and thus shouldn't be discussed?!