CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #21

[stillwatersc]

I agree about the zip ties. I guess my brain goes directing to shibari, which is what I taught in my workshops. While someone could be zip tied, it doesn't seem to make sense with the lay out of the street, the time of day or anything. Unless she was unable to scream. But he seems so wreckless and fumbles with past abductions that I don't know..Something is just off. But yes, zip ties would absolutely speed up the process because no knots are involved.

I agree. It was pretty bold to grab her off the street. I don't see him spending much time messing around before getting out of there. He also had the backpack to deal with. I don't know how zip ties work - can you work them with one hand?

 

[DeAnn]

An MSM link was provided from...Denver4 I believe?

thanks. I found this. http://www.coloradoconnection.com/news/story.aspx?id=817133#.UIrkNJHXKQk

 

[smh]

Second point regarding how he got her and no one noticed. I imagine he was running on pure adrenaline and knocked her out quick. But get a load of the tint on those windows???? I don't think anyone could see anything and I wonder if they were even recently tinted. In ca- those windows are not street legal. Not sure about CO.

Lastly, I'm kind of tired if hearing about the bad childhoods these killers had. I have a psychology degree and I get it. But everyone has had hardships in their lives, poverty, loss of family, criminals in family, disease, etc. People have the choice to make something of their lives and overcome things or to use it as an excuse. I acknowledge people can be bred into horrible behavior- but this kid lived in one house his whole life, had a mother that obviously struggled, he had opportunity. People have far far worse childhoods and make something of themselves. Sick to death of the excuses.

I noticed the tint on his windows too. Even though I live here, I am not sure if that is legal or not.

And I agree 100% with your last comment.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Wondering why the term “hogtied” vs “tied up” was used. Hogtie is a pretty specific term. There appears to more involved in a hogtie than simply slipping on a zip tie or two. A hogtie is any position that results in the arms and legs being bound, both tied behind the person and then connecting the hands and feet. Guess we’ll have to wait for the official LE release on if or how Jessica was tied.

I was shocked by the term hogtied, rather than saying tied up. I also wonder who used the term. I had no idea it was a term used in anything other than being used on animals.

 

[stillwatersc]

Lastly, I'm kind of tired if hearing about the bad childhoods these killers had. I have a psychology degree and I get it. But everyone has had hardships in their lives, poverty, loss of family, criminals in family, disease, etc. People have the choice to make something of their lives and overcome things or to use it as an excuse. I acknowledge people can be bred into horrible behavior- but this kid lived in one house his whole life, had a mother that obviously struggled, he had opportunity. People have far far worse childhoods and make something of themselves. Sick to death of the excuses.

Agreed. How many of these serial killers have siblings who lead normal lives? (or try to with that stigma hanging over them!)

Also you made a great point on the window tinting!

 

[iamnotagolem]

Here is Colorado window tinting laws

http://www.tintcenter.com/laws/CO/

Here is California for comparison. FWIW in Ca they will still tint your front window darker, you just run the risk of getting a ticket and having to remove it.

http://www.tintcenter.com/laws/CA/

 

[vega]

I agree. It was pretty bold to grab her off the street. I don't see him spending much time messing around before getting out of there. He also had the backpack to deal with. I don't know how zip ties work - can you work them with one hand?

If the zip-ties are pre-set, very easily with one hand, two fingers can pull a zip-tie tight. The abductor would have to have full control of both wrists or a compliant victim however in that scenario.

 

[passionflower]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...57f950-1f9b-11e2-8817-41b9a7aaabc7_story.html

By Associated Press, Updated: Friday, October 26, 2:33 PM

Oh no. This doesn't sound good.
And what about virgin islands?
Have we heard of any missing girls where he vacationed?
Bikini girls would make him go wild IMO

 

[TnVolsFan]

Dumb questions but it's this a tri-level house. I just remember a friend living in the suburbs and every few houses would be like this. You would walk in and be in the foyer but there was a stair case leading down and one leading up. The downstairs was a furnished basement that was huge and the upstairs had the kitchen, living room and 2 bedrooms / 1 bath. I wouldn't know where the crawlspace would in a house like that though.

It reminds me of those houses though (Brady bunch homes as we called them).

It looks to be the same design as a friends house was in the same neighborhood-- you walked in the front door to the living room/dining room/kitchen... upstairs 3 bedrooms 1.5 (connected) baths, downstairs- den and full bath and garage... down further- finished basement with utility room (air unit water heater etc) laundry room.

 

[Jules71]

snipped for space

Lastly, I'm kind of tired if hearing about the bad childhoods these killers had. I have a psychology degree and I get it. But everyone has had hardships in their lives, poverty, loss of family, criminals in family, disease, etc. People have the choice to make something of their lives and overcome things or to use it as an excuse. I acknowledge people can be bred into horrible behavior- but this kid lived in one house his whole life, had a mother that obviously struggled, he had opportunity. People have far far worse childhoods and make something of themselves. Sick to death of the excuses.

And some of us really want to know every aspect of what makes a person like this tick. What causes it - and what can be done about it. I don't believe he was born evil. So what causes someone to do this? If we stop asking the questions - the answers will never be found. To understand it also helps so we can identify it and protect against it.

 

[DylansMom34]

I think its a 2002 Grand Cherokee Limited.

 

[Foxfire]

Originally Posted by Foxfire
Yes, I can see why the Honorable Judge(wink/wink) would want to issue the gag order with the number of abduction attempts in the Denver area in the past year and with Elections less than two weeks away..

Why not, seems that there has been an unofficial gag order issued on the many abduction attempts and the state of Public Safety for the area's citizens for over a year prior to Jessica Ridgeway's tragic abduction/murder...

'The CO citizens deserve the truth.. Without public safety for our families, friends, and loved ones, we have nothing'...

OwlMom Quote:
? Colorado Springs is not "the area" when one is talking about Westminster/Arvada or even "north/northwest Denver 'burbs." Pueblo is not "the area." And the rest of the attempts are unsolved and likely by two or three different people who the police haven't caught.

Whether the truth comes out before or after a trial is not necessarily connected to public safety. I'm also not sure what benefit there would be to having the prosecution disclose everything now. As a community, we're already horrified. It's true that the rumors flying--many of which contradict each other!!--aren't helping, but if the suspect is caught and if they have every reason to believe he acted alone, it's hardly a public safety issue.

RE: And the rest of the attempts are unsolved and likely by two or three different people who the police haven't caught.

Do you see something that I don't, OwlMom? If Austin Reed Siggs, is responsible for abduction attempts of other victims, the public should be informed. If not, then there are obviously other predators active in the area. Imo, I doubt parents would have let their children out of their sight if they had known that there were multiple recent abduction attempts..
Awareness is the key...

May 28 2012-
Westminster- A 22yo jogger is grabbed from behind and chemical soaked rag attempted to be placed over her mouth. She was able to fight him off and call 911
**this is the case definitively linked to Jessica Ridgeway case per WPD**
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...r-lake-attacks

September 9 2012-
Arvada- According to Arvada police, around 5:30 p.m. on Sunday, a child was walking near Quaker Acres Park, near 74th Place and Terry Court, when someone tried to entice the child into a car with candy.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...tranger-danger

September 12 2012-
Arvada- An elementary school student reported someone attempting to entice him into a car with candy around 5:40 p.m. on Wednesday, in front of Fitzmorris Elementary School at 62nd Avenue and Independence Street.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...tranger-danger

October 23, 2012-
Arvada- A young girl was approached while on her way to school by a male in a red sedan telling her to get in the car.
http://www.9news.com/news/local/arti...pted-abduction

October 22, 2012-
Arvada- An 8yo girl attempted abduction at school bus stop.
http://www.9news.com/news/local/arti...pted-abduction

 

[scorekeeper]

I think he was bullied in HS and went to Warren Tech where he fit in more. He was studying something he liked (Forensic Science) and felt he fit in and was probably enthusiastic about it. He was probably more outgoing there because he felt comfortable. I have a feeling this kid was quiet and was a little weird to his neighbors and the kids at his HS. From what I understand, Warren Tech was for kids who weren't doing so well in mainstream HS. These are the kids who just didn't fit in and maybe AS fit in there.

That's where I think conflicting personality reports come from. Depends on the environment he was in.

BBM

Where is this coming from? This is the mindset from the 60s/70s when "vocational centers" started. Yes, it may have been true than that some kids were "recommended" to attend but because they may not have been interested in going to college or didn't do well with "bookwork".

Tech schools allow kids to learn a trade and immediate join the workforce or also allow them to go on to college in a field of study they enjoy. Some kids have to join the workforce right out of high school and this helps them in their career choice.

At our "career center/tech centers" students are screened and not everyone gets accepted.

Sorry for ranting but some parents don't own $600,000 houses (this comment is related to the posting last night about the value of AS's father's house) and not all kids have the luxury of going to college....So many of the volunteer fire fighters in small, rural communities attended the fire fighter/emt program at their county career/tech center

 

[Jules71]

Agreed. How many of these serial killers have siblings who lead normal lives? (or try to with that stigma hanging over them!)

Also you made a great point on the window tinting!

And that goes back to other factors being in place (brain patterns & genetic makeup) in addition to the bad childhood all coming together to create the perfect storm. Their siblings with the normal lives may have had the same childhood experience but lack either of the other factors. So a bad childhood doesn't cause it entirely, but it contributes to it. IMO.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Thank you sooo much, AstroKitty !! Your response has made my day !!

If I'm reading your post correctly, however, you may have given me a wee bit more credit than I deserved. (darn it...) I had not meant to imply that the cross w/perp's DNA had come from the 22 y.o. jogger's neck during struggle w/attacker. (Now that would really be something, wouldn't it?!?)

My thoughts were that the cross was worn by the perp at the time of the attack on the jogger and that it fell from his neck during her struggle w/him.

And, again, this is pure speculation on my part: I think AS's mother saw the picture of the cross and knew that her "problem son" stopped wearing such a cross earlier in the year. Any nagging doubts that she had could no longer be explained away. I picture her then "backing AS into a corner" and forcing him say the last words she ever wanted to hear...

Re: the cross coming from the jogger's neck...that was one of my first thoughts. Maybe I watch too much tv.

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

Thought I read in some early posts that police were not taking DNA from minors - did a google search & found this article:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ctims-an-oversight/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

This article indicates it is not permissible for police to take the DNA of a minor without the parent's permission. So would Sigg's mother have to be present & give her consent? I have read nothing indicating that police were routinely taking DNA from all household members, just males who were not minors. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong I guess where I am going with this is, how did police already have his DNA if they weren't already zeroing in on him?

Thank you, I wondered this as well. Even if he was home, he didn't HAVE to give out his swab then. :/

 

[AstroKitty]

I agree. It was pretty bold to grab her off the street. I don't see him spending much time messing around before getting out of there. He also had the backpack to deal with. I don't know how zip ties work - can you work them with one hand?

Eh kinda. depends how well versed you are with them. I have extensive um..training or practice with zip ties but I use them differently. I have hogtied someone and when I did, I used rope (it was consensual) it took awhile, not too long but then again I didn't plan on doing them real harm and they weren't going to try and get out of it.

I just can't fathom someone that young without real life experiences, a personal relationship that had kink involved etc etc that knew to do this. I just don't believe he did tie her up. At least not that way.

He is just so sloppy, and I think it's nerves. Like he grasps the concept of desiring the part of abduction or making someone subdued but then what does he do? :waitasec: Just stuff I've kind of pieced together and common sense tells me that maybe once he actually was able to finally kidnap someone, he panicked because he didn't know what to do with her once he realized it did nothing for him like he suspected (which was in an article I read). I'll keep the rest of my opinion out of it because people gloss over my often use of "i think" I feel" and "my opinion" anytime I write something lol but I think we'll find out later that he was pretty careless and was given far too much credit in being this forensic enthralled, smart guy.

I'm glad he's off the streets because he had every marking for the early stages of a serial killer. JMO

 

[Confusion]

My image of what he's been reported to have said is that he had a rope (or something else used to tie her) which he made slip knots in. I can see putting one around her neck, one around each wrist and one around each ankle. If done "properly", any time she let her legs relax, it could tighten up the loop around her neck. He reportedly said that she strangled herself while he was driving, which means (to me) that he drove around until she was so exhausted that she just let her legs relax completely and eventually died. Contrary to "hog-tying and strangling her", it would be a slow and miserable death. He could have easily stuffed something in her mouth and taped or tied it to keep her quiet, which would also make it harder for her to breather.

I also wanted to add my 2 cents on serial killers with good home lives. Just because a child has good, loving parents, it doesn't mean they haven't experienced any kind of traumatic experience. I don't believe that any 2 people experience exactly the same events in life, even if they were twins raised in the same home. We've heard about AS being bullied in the past, but there's no way to know how far the bullying went or when it started. He could have very well been beaten by classmates, molested by teachers or older boys or any number of other things that many kids experience but don't report until years later, if aat all.

I don't consider abuse to be an excuse for killing, torturing or even injurying another person, but I do think it's important to know what does contribute to these mindsets and behaviors if we want to try to prevent repeats in the future. MOO

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

RE: the cross in that photo...I gotta say it is not the same. The one in the photo just looks too symmetrical. The one found looks handmade. Maybe he made it in wood shop or something?

 

[AlwaysReading]

And some of us really want to know every aspect of what makes a person like this tick. What causes it - and what can be done about it. I don't believe he was born evil. So what causes someone to do this? If we stop asking the questions - the answers will never be found. To understand it also helps so we can identify it and protect against it.

I absolutely agree.