CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct. 2012 - #22

[mck16]

Your DIL is far from the only counselor/psychologist/psychiatrist who is deeply troubled themselves.. This imo is par for the course.. I say it because Ive seen it over and over(not to mention my sister is a psychologist who would likely fit this catagory)..in fact its quite common that many times people who do have multiple issues specifically go into this type profession as a way of somehow helping themselves..

Again imo your DIL is quite likely the "norm" rather than abnormal..jmo.


Yes, regardless of what some opinions may be that our children are deeply troubled due to collecting knives or japanese swords, imo thats just not near correct and only lumping in many into a catagory that they have no business being lumped in with(especially that they would be arrested for owning the weapons..GMAB)..

My son became a collector due to the fact that my grandfather was and they were extremely close until he died last year..my son has many of my grandfathers knives and swords that date back over a century.. They have extreme sentimental value and imo are notnegative in any way whatsoever..

I do realize there are individuals who do collect such for not so positives reasons and that the knives represent violence or death(as they possibly to Sigg).. But just as with all things the negative many times is what sadly over shadzows something that realistically is a positive in the majority of peoples situations..jmo.

Yep this is the conclusin I came to before Sigg was even arrested.. The minute LE redirected focus on the actual markings of the cross, I posted that I believed it possible those markings were found on the torso..jmo.

Thank you for posting in reference to my post. You said what I wanted to. Most people I know who are in that field or studied it are a little throwed off to use a term I have heard my son use. My dil is not the only person I know who fits this description. jmo

 

[Kat]

The statistics are from the FBI. I do not believe they can be considered propaganda-they are very objective and methodical when it comes to tracking this data. There have also been many studies done by non-government agencies that back up these findings.

This is not a matter of my personal opinion-it is an objective fact. Violent crime has fallen 40% in the past 4 decades. I'm not going to go through your post point by point-but I will just say that all of the crimes you insist were not happening 40 years or so ago-they absolutely were. It just wasn't reported in the same way, and there was less awareness.

Visit the cold-case forum here some time, and read about all of the horrific crimes from decades past. It may give you a different perspective.

Hi. Please support that assertion. If possible I would like to view the studies themselves not the conclusions that are published on websites. (statistics)

I would like to see either the studies or the statisical proof (that names the study the statistics were extracted from) to support the assertion that violent crimes have fallen 40% in the past 4 decades. Is that all violent crimes? Or just certain violent crimes? Is that only juvenile offenders? Or is that adult offenders? Is that male or female juvenile offenders....KWIM?

No offense. Just want to see that assertion supported. Thank you in advance.

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space> OTOH, the story about the kid with a slingshot being "bullied" by Sigg? I bet I would be accused of "bullying" that same kid, if something from a slingshot gets vaguely near my kids and I say something to you and the action is repeated, yeah, I will chew you out. Somehow I'd guess that shooting stuff at teens playing football has the same effect. Shocking! <snipped for space>

I completely agree with you! I'd be the same way. He just didn't strike me as a kid who'd be 1. playing football with a group of kids, or 2. the one who stepped forward and "took charge" so to speak. I was picturing a kid who would be more likely to wait for one of the other kids to handle it.

Not that I know him at all, I'm just going by what I've read in the MSM stories.

 

[Foxfire]

From the discussion on WS Radio, they are discussing the serial killer triad..

Long shot on the meaning of the 3 markings on the cross?


TERRIBLE TRIAD
http://serialkillr.tripod.com/SerialKillersExposed/triad.html
There are three characteristics that are present in almost all serial killers during their childhood. These characteristics, known as the terrible triad, are bed-wetting, fire-starting and animal torture.

1. Bed-wetting-at least 60% of serial killers were wetting the bed past the age of 12.

2. Fire-starting-Otis Toole and Carl Panzram are two serial killers who started fires as children. Carl Panzram burned down the reformatory he was sent to. Toole set fire to a neighbors house. Fire fascination is an early manifestation of their obsession with destruction.

3. Animal torture-many serial killers, before moving to human victims, start with small animals. Ed Kemper killed neighborhood cats. A dog's severed head was found on a stick in the woods near Jeffrey Dahmer's childhood home.

 

[AstroKitty]

I can't listen to the radio show tonight, if anyone can give a recap, please post it Thank you!

 

[borndem]

I joined WS to learn about this case. The whole thing has made me rather depressed I don't know how you all manage to follow case after case. I enjoy the diverse theories and suggestions from all of the members though.

I'm trying to catch up here, Akweks, but anyway,

WELCOME TO :websleuther:WEBSLEUTHS, AKWEKS!!!

​

:thewave:


arty:
​

 

[nikb]

From the discussion on WS Radio, they are discussing the serial killer triad..

Long shot on the meaning of the 3 markings on the cross?


TERRIBLE TRIAD
http://serialkillr.tripod.com/SerialKillersExposed/triad.html
There are three characteristics that are present in almost all serial killers during their childhood. These characteristics, known as the terrible triad, are bed-wetting, fire-starting and animal torture.

1. Bed-wetting-at least 60% of serial killers were wetting the bed past the age of 12.

2. Fire-starting-Otis Toole and Carl Panzram are two serial killers who started fires as children. Carl Panzram burned down the reformatory he was sent to. Toole set fire to a neighbors house. Fire fascination is an early manifestation of their obsession with destruction.

3. Animal torture-many serial killers, before moving to human victims, start with small animals. Ed Kemper killed neighborhood cats. A dog's severed head was found on a stick in the woods near Jeffrey Dahmer's childhood home.

Interesting. I wonder on #1 how many NON-serial killers also wet the bed past age 12? I can think of at least two close relatives who did. On #2 every kid I've ever known, myself included, had at least some interest in fire. Granted for me it was more like fascination with camp fires and the ability to get paper to smoke with a magnifying glass, not burning structures, but IMO that's not terribly uncommon either. #3 though, that's the one that I think is a huge, huge indicator that something is very wrong. IMO. Maybe all 3 combined is more of a key, but #3 alone sets alarm bells off for me.

ETA: in case it wasn't obvious, both of those relatives I mentioned who wet the bed into their mid to late teens were also pretty fascinated with fire, but AFAIK neither of them has ever tortured an animal or killed a person. In fact one one of them wouldn't hurt a fly, has always carried bugs and spiders outside to keep anyone from squishing them, and he's been a vegetarian for 10+ years because he couldn't stomach the thought of an animal suffering/dying so he could eat. I don't want to get all sidetracked on a discussion about vegetarianism, it's just that this personal example is what makes me think that #3 is the most "important" of the 3 indicators.

 

[danzn16]

Interesting. I wonder on #1 how many NON-serial killers also wet the bed past age 12? I can think of at least two close relatives who did. On #2 every kid I've ever known, myself included, had at least some interest in fire. Granted for me it was more like fascination with camp fires and the ability to get paper to smoke with a magnifying glass, not burning structures, but IMO that's not terribly uncommon either. #3 though, that's the one that I think is a huge, huge indicator that something is very wrong. IMO. Maybe all 3 combined is more of a key, but #3 alone sets alarm bells off for me.

Have not been able to catch up at all since the day Sigg was arrested. Is there a good post with all the up to date info or any news since then?

 

[katydid23]

Your DIL is far from the only counselor/psychologist/psychiatrist who is deeply troubled themselves.. This imo is par for the course.. I say it because Ive seen it over and over(not to mention my sister is a psychologist who would likely fit this catagory)..in fact its quite common that many times people who do have multiple issues specifically go into this type profession as a way of somehow helping themselves..

Again imo your DIL is quite likely the "norm" rather than abnormal..jmo.


Yes, regardless of what some opinions may be that our children are deeply troubled due to collecting knives or japanese swords, imo thats just not near correct and only lumping in many into a catagory that they have no business being lumped in with(especially that they would be arrested for owning the weapons..GMAB)..

My son became a collector due to the fact that my grandfather was and they were extremely close until he died last year..my son has many of my grandfathers knives and swords that date back over a century.. They have extreme sentimental value and imo are notnegative in any way whatsoever..

I do realize there are individuals who do collect such for not so positives reasons and that the knives represent violence or death(as they possibly to Sigg).. But just as with all things the negative many times is what sadly over shadzows something that realistically is a positive in the majority of peoples situations..jmo.

Yep this is the conclusin I came to before Sigg was even arrested.. The minute LE redirected focus on the actual markings of the cross, I posted that I believed it possible those markings were found on the torso..jmo.

I know lots of males who have knife or gun collections. My son had a knife collection that he loved. But when he wanted a new truck he sold them, which made me happy. :smile: But I agree that having a weapon collection does not mean you are violent. My son loved anime as well. However he did go to an anime convention one time, and came home and said there were too many weird things going on and he never went again. LOL

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

This might be a good way to catch up, and you can pick and choose without going to all the news sites.

Case archive:
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Jessica%20Ridgeway%20%20-CO-/

 

[TreeClimbingGirl]

Hi. Please support that assertion. If possible I would like to view the studies themselves not the conclusions that are published on websites. (statistics)

I would like to see either the studies or the statisical proof (that names the study the statistics were extracted from) to support the assertion that violent crimes have fallen 40% in the past 4 decades. Is that all violent crimes? Or just certain violent crimes? Is that only juvenile offenders? Or is that adult offenders? Is that male or female juvenile offenders....KWIM?

No offense. Just want to see that assertion supported. Thank you in advance.

Sorry, I misspoke there...I meant to say the violent crime rate is the lowest in 40 years. It has fallen around 40% from it's peak in the 90's.

I had a post with more specific numbers in it, but it has disappeared for some reason :waitasec:

Anyhoo, here is some hard data:

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/tables/viortrdtab.cfm

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States"]Crime in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

The year 2010 was overall the most free of serious crime in almost forty years. The recent overall decrease spans all types of such crime, with violent and property crimes having reached an all-time low. The homicide rate in particular decreased 51% between its record high point in 1991 and 2010.

From 2000-2008, the year-by-year homicide rate continuously decreased.[10]

While the homicide rate decreased continuously between 1991 and 2000 from 9.8 homicides per 100,000 persons to 5.5 per 100,000, it remained at 5.4-5.7 until 2009, when it dipped down to 5.0, and continued to drop in 2010 to 4.8.

In contrast to the recent sharp decrease in the homicide rate, the rates of other violent crimes and of property crimes, although they have continuously decreased recently, have decreased at a considerably slower pace than in the 1990s.[10] Overall, the crime rate in the U.S. was the same in 2009 as in 1968, with the homicide rate being roughly the same as in 1964. Violent crime overall, however, is still at the same level as in 1973, despite having decreased steadily since 1991.[11]

 

[passionflower]

On radio. I was shocked about the neighbors disected pet.
Also that his mom made him call LE she did not.
His brother took it so hard emotionally in court.
That AS actually raised his hand when he did not understand
something the judge said.

 

[katydid23]

Interesting. I wonder on #1 how many NON-serial killers also wet the bed past age 12? I can think of at least two close relatives who did. On #2 every kid I've ever known, myself included, had at least some interest in fire. Granted for me it was more like fascination with camp fires and the ability to get paper to smoke with a magnifying glass, not burning structures, but IMO that's not terribly uncommon either. #3 though, that's the one that I think is a huge, huge indicator that something is very wrong. IMO. Maybe all 3 combined is more of a key, but #3 alone sets alarm bells off for me.

I don't think I know of any kids that wet their beds past the age of 12. That seems kind of rare. But I agree about fire---many kids are interested in playing around with the element of fire. I dragged my son and his friend down to the local fire dept. by their ears when I found them filling tennis balls with gas and lighting them on fire. The firemen made 'invited' them to watch some awful videos of kids who caught fire and also made them clean up the fire house for the afternoon.
But the difference is, I guess, that MOST kids who play with matches don't want to burn their house down. I think Brandon Lavergne might have burned down at least 2 family homes. Big difference between blowing up tennis balls and lighting your parents house on fire.

As for the animal cruelty. BIG RED FLAG. I would see my teen son's wall full of ancient Japanese swords and think, ' gulp, ' but then I would see his cat curled up by his head and his dog at his feet, snoring . LOL

 

[passionflower]

On radio it is a known spook place for local kids where AS laid
the remains.
Rumors the KKK was there etc.
Oct. Is the most popular time for the open space.

 

[absentia]

While that is true that violent crime overall is down it is still very alarming to me that juveniles committed 766 murders in 2010. Almost twice as much as children who were murdered by their parents.

Q: How many murders are committed by juvenile offenders in the United States?
A: Known juvenile offenders were involved in at least 766 murders in the U.S. in 2010, representing about 8% of all known murder offenders.

http://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/offenders/qa03105.asp?qaDate=2010

And more and more juveniles who are committing homicide their cases are being sent to adult court which means those cases would not be listed as juvenile offenses in the statistics.

That is roughly two juveniles per day murdering someone. Now those are just the solved cases where the suspect is known. There are so many cases that have remained unsolved for decades and until they are they will not be applied to any statistical category.

I tried to look for the 2011 violent crime statistics but was unable to locate it. Do you perhaps have a link to the latest one? TIA

imo

statistically speaking the rates are down, but due to population growth, the sheer number are increased. so yes it seems like it is more, b/c it is but not in relation to the population.

 

[Foxfire]

On radio. I was shocked about the neighbors disected pet.
Also that his mom made him call LE she did not.
His brother took it so hard emotionally in court.
That AS actually raised his hand when he did not understand
something the judge said.

So many questions & so few answers, passionflower...

Imo, Austin Reed Siggs, knew that the dominoes were beginning to fall when he turned himself in to LE...
ARS, was forensically aware. Why would he carelessly leave indicting dna evidence that would eventually lead back to him.?

 

[nikb]

Have not been able to catch up at all since the day Sigg was arrested. Is there a good post with all the up to date info or any news since then?

Credit totally goes to Eileenhawkeye for this one, but here's her post:

Here are news stories about this case starting from the most recent:

https://www.google.com/search?q="je...Sy2wXt3YCACw&ved=0CCYQpwUoAQ&biw=1217&bih=591

It looks like it's slowing down in the media.

Basically it seems like everything's slowed down quite a bit due to the gag order. There are a few newish articles, mostly with more information about him from neighbors. He's back in court next week, hopefully we'll learn he's being tried as an adult.

 

[absentia]

Jillycat could you share where the information that the remains found in mom's crawl space were in a cooler was learned?..a link?..or was on local news?(which should still be available online)

TIA

I saw it too. It was in the local paper in Denver I think. there was a picture of a red and white cooler in the back yard under the 2nd story deck when they were searching the house the first day. scary.

 

[K.jill]

I am curious to know how AS managed to get a Mohawk after his mugshot and before court the next morning.

 

[Etilema]

Interesting. I wonder on #1 how many NON-serial killers also wet the bed past age 12? I can think of at least two close relatives who did. On #2 every kid I've ever known, myself included, had at least some interest in fire. Granted for me it was more like fascination with camp fires and the ability to get paper to smoke with a magnifying glass, not burning structures, but IMO that's not terribly uncommon either. #3 though, that's the one that I think is a huge, huge indicator that something is very wrong. IMO. Maybe all 3 combined is more of a key, but #3 alone sets alarm bells off for me.

ETA: in case it wasn't obvious, both of those relatives I mentioned who wet the bed into their mid to late teens were also pretty fascinated with fire, but AFAIK neither of them has ever tortured an animal or killed a person. In fact one one of them wouldn't hurt a fly, has always carried bugs and spiders outside to keep anyone from squishing them, and he's been a vegetarian for 10+ years because he couldn't stomach the thought of an animal suffering/dying so he could eat. I don't want to get all sidetracked on a discussion about vegetarianism, it's just that this personal example is what makes me think that #3 is the most "important" of the 3 indicators.

I think it may be more a matter of magnitude than the thing itself.

There is a difference between fascination with fire that almost all kids have, and the small fires they experiment with versus actually deliberately burning down buildings.

To be honest, a lot of kids I have known or heard of have engaged in some degree of animal torture--whether that was pulling the glowing part off of a firefly or the wings off of other insects, or something more extreme like skinning a frog alive or tormenting a dog or cat. Like setting small fires, these are not good things for them to be doing, something that should be addressed, but not necessarily indicative of a kid who will grow up without developing empathy or with an urge to hurt or kill humans.

JMO


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