CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct. 2012 - #22

[jillycat]

Check my last 2 post coments on page 14 and click on the thumbnail. She is immediately to the right of the fence post.

Yes, I've seen that photo. But I've never seen the images being referenced with respect to other remains.

The previously mentioned white object in the dark to the right in the picture is a member of LE holding a bag or some other object. In the video, as the light follows the LE carrying Jessica, he steps away as they pass with Jessica's remains.

I don't believe there were remains beyond her torso at Pattridge and even MSM references to the recovery have indicated even that was not complete. Since LE has not specified, I guess we really don't know. But it appears by the latest MSM accounts that her killer was hoarding other remains and that suggests that little was found at Pattridge, as has been previously indicated in the MSM.

Maybe I'm not understanding the references but I just don't see these other images. And I've seen a number of these photos. ?

If we didn't know what we were looking for, the image of what they did find would probably not register at all.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Well, if what you say is true, then I wish we didn't have that 24/7 news cycle. I wish we weren't being exposed to the ugliness day and night. I'm not faulting anyone here, because I'm right here, too. But it's tearing me up. These senseless murders of babies... I don't want to hear about it anymore. I don't want to hear the gruesome details of how another child was murdered by some psychopath.

However, if the crime rate is falling, and the stats are correct, then how is it that so many of us were able to walk around in our neighborhoods back in the 60's with no fear of being kidnapped and raped and murdered? How come we never heard about mothers killing their own child? Or fathers beating one to death while in an alcoholic stupor? I remember hearing about serial killers even back then, but it happened somewhere else, far away from my small town. And how come everybody I talk to these days, seem to have the same thoughts that I do? 'Violence is rampant, Evil is all around us,' that's what I hear every day.

I never knew a person who was on drugs when I was a teen. Never heard of most of the drugs that are out there now. Pot was just becoming popular but I never came in contact with it or anybody who used it. Meth was unheard of, cocaine and crack too. Gangs were not prevalent. Who ever heard of girls being sold into human trafficking 40 years ago? Maybe in South America or Mexico, or some country overseas, but not here in the U.S.A.

I don't know who does these studies you linked to or who came up with the stats, but it may just be propaganda put out by the government, IDK. But if crime is down, then why are all the jails and prisons overcrowded and they're having to let criminals out to make room for more? How come nobody has to serve their full sentence even for petty crimes nowadays. Here, if a person gets 50 days, they're automatically released in 15 days... they serve about 1/3 of their sentence. And if a killer didn't get the DP, or LWOP, they end up being released in 10 years. Even the judges are giving lighter sentences. One guy that killed a child got 90 days and probation for about 10 years, but he's free. Mental hospitals are full, too.

No offense to you, but these statistics don't mean much to me when I see the evil everywhere. I don't believe it's just because we have round the clock news, because most of the news networks don't report on only crime. So it's not making sense to me. The population has increased so much in 50 years, but crime is down? Nope... not buying it.

Sorry for the long rant, but I am just tired of all this... I want our kids to be safe and be able to step outside their doors without the fear of some psycho killing them.

Actually, if you go any national news website, you will see headlines about MANY cases. How would those cases make national news back in the 60s when you just had 3 (1-hour-long) evening news programs?

 

[jillycat]

Maybe my vision isn't as good as yours, but it's impossible to tell what anything is in that picture.

It's really not clear, but is suggestive based on reports of what was found. So don't feel like it should be obvious.

 

[TreeClimbingGirl]

Well, if what you say is true, then I wish we didn't have that 24/7 news cycle. I wish we weren't being exposed to the ugliness day and night. I'm not faulting anyone here, because I'm right here, too. But it's tearing me up. These senseless murders of babies... I don't want to hear about it anymore. I don't want to hear the gruesome details of how another child was murdered by some psychopath.

However, if the crime rate is falling, and the stats are correct, then how is it that so many of us were able to walk around in our neighborhoods back in the 60's with no fear of being kidnapped and raped and murdered? How come we never heard about mothers killing their own child? Or fathers beating one to death while in an alcoholic stupor? I remember hearing about serial killers even back then, but it happened somewhere else, far away from my small town. And how come everybody I talk to these days, seem to have the same thoughts that I do? 'Violence is rampant, Evil is all around us,' that's what I hear every day.

I never knew a person who was on drugs when I was a teen. Never heard of most of the drugs that are out there now. Pot was just becoming popular but I never came in contact with it or anybody who used it. Meth was unheard of, cocaine and crack too. Gangs were not prevalent. Who ever heard of girls being sold into human trafficking 40 years ago? Maybe in South America or Mexico, or some country overseas, but not here in the U.S.A.

I don't know who does these studies you linked to or who came up with the stats, but it may just be propaganda put out by the government, IDK. But if crime is down, then why are all the jails and prisons overcrowded and they're having to let criminals out to make room for more? How come nobody has to serve their full sentence even for petty crimes nowadays. Here, if a person gets 50 days, they're automatically released in 15 days... they serve about 1/3 of their sentence. And if a killer didn't get the DP, or LWOP, they end up being released in 10 years. Even the judges are giving lighter sentences. One guy that killed a child got 90 days and probation for about 10 years, but he's free. Mental hospitals are full, too.

No offense to you, but these statistics don't mean much to me when I see the evil everywhere. I don't believe it's just because we have round the clock news, because most of the news networks don't report on only crime. So it's not making sense to me. The population has increased so much in 50 years, but crime is down? Nope... not buying it.

Sorry for the long rant, but I am just tired of all this... I want our kids to be safe and be able to step outside their doors without the fear of some psycho killing them.

The statistics are from the FBI. I do not believe they can be considered propaganda-they are very objective and methodical when it comes to tracking this data. There have also been many studies done by non-government agencies that back up these findings.

This is not a matter of my personal opinion-it is an objective fact. Violent crime has fallen 40% in the past 4 decades. I'm not going to go through your post point by point-but I will just say that all of the crimes you insist were not happening 40 years or so ago-they absolutely were. It just wasn't reported in the same way, and there was less awareness.

Visit the cold-case forum here some time, and read about all of the horrific crimes from decades past. It may give you a different perspective.

 

[kmn]

Yes, I've seen that photo. But I've never seen the images being referenced with respect to other remains.

The previously mentioned white object in the dark to the right in the picture is a member of LE holding a bag or some other object. In the video, as the light follows the LE carrying Jessica, he steps away as they pass with Jessica's remains.

I don't believe there were remains beyond her torso at Pattridge and even MSM references to the recovery have indicated even that was not complete. Since LE has not specified, I guess we really don't know. But it appears by the latest MSM accounts that her killer was hoarding other remains and that suggests that little was found at Pattridge, as has been previously indicated in the MSM.

Maybe I'm not understanding the references but I just don't see these other images. And I've seen a number of these photos. ?

If we didn't know what we were looking for, the image of what they did find would probably not register at all.

I think this is all they found there too. MSM reports said what was found was her torso. Don't have the link.

 

[Worry Wart]

I think this is all they found there too. MSM reports said what was found was her torso. Don't have the link.

The MSM reports I recall were the words "not intact". That can mean a lot of things. I thought because of the delay in identification maybe teeth pulled ( dental records), hands missing ( dna from fingernails) and uggh ( I can't even type it, inability to determine sex). That being said, I wonder about the sudden information requested regarding the cross. We don't know for sure where that cross was found. I think it is a possibility the unique markings were perhaps left on the body and LE was looking for some meaning to them while also a link to the person who owned this cross. Just my thoughts.

 

[mikkismom]

Well, if what you say is true, then I wish we didn't have that 24/7 news cycle. I wish we weren't being exposed to the ugliness day and night. I'm not faulting anyone here, because I'm right here, too. But it's tearing me up. These senseless murders of babies... I don't want to hear about it anymore. I don't want to hear the gruesome details of how another child was murdered by some psychopath.
<snip>
Sorry for the long rant, but I am just tired of all this... I want our kids to be safe and be able to step outside their doors without the fear of some psycho killing them.

I think it is the 24hr. global news. In my family history, I had one grandmother deported for 'unsavory' behavior. http://www.fulkerson.org/1-angel.html . Another grandfather killed his wife with a broomstick - he was later hanged. http://genforum.genealogy.com/shrout/messages/318.html Yet another bit the nose off of a man during a fight.

My family is no more abnormal than any other. I just happen to read up on ancestors. KWIM?

Lots of things go on all over the world throughout history. The ones that are aware of them are the ones who choose to read about them.

JMO

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

The statistics are from the FBI. I do not believe they can be considered propaganda-they are very objective and methodical when it comes to tracking this data. There have also been many studies done by non-government agencies that back up these findings.

This is not a matter of my personal opinion-it is an objective fact. Violent crime has fallen 40% in the past 4 decades. I'm not going to go through your post point by point-but I will just say that all of the crimes you insist were not happening 40 years or so ago-they absolutely were. It just wasn't reported in the same way, and there was less awareness.

Visit the cold-case forum here some time, and read about all of the horrific crimes from decades past. It may give you a different perspective.

:gthanks:

 

[AstroKitty]

I think it is a possibility the unique markings were perhaps left on the body and LE was looking for some meaning to them while also a link to the person who owned this cross. Just my thoughts.

I never thought about that!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The statistics are from the FBI. I do not believe they can be considered propaganda-they are very objective and methodical when it comes to tracking this data. There have also been many studies done by non-government agencies that back up these findings.

This is not a matter of my personal opinion-it is an objective fact. Violent crime has fallen 40% in the past 4 decades. I'm not going to go through your post point by point-but I will just say that all of the crimes you insist were not happening 40 years or so ago-they absolutely were. It just wasn't reported in the same way, and there was less awareness.

Visit the cold-case forum here some time, and read about all of the horrific crimes from decades past. It may give you a different perspective.

While that is true that violent crime overall is down it is still very alarming to me that juveniles committed 766 murders in 2010. Almost twice as much as children who were murdered by their parents.

Q: How many murders are committed by juvenile offenders in the United States?
A: Known juvenile offenders were involved in at least 766 murders in the U.S. in 2010, representing about 8% of all known murder offenders.

http://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/offenders/qa03105.asp?qaDate=2010

And more and more juveniles who are committing homicide their cases are being sent to adult court which means those cases would not be listed as juvenile offenses in the statistics.

That is roughly two juveniles per day murdering someone. Now those are just the solved cases where the suspect is known. There are so many cases that have remained unsolved for decades and until they are they will not be applied to any statistical category.

I tried to look for the 2011 violent crime statistics but was unable to locate it. Do you perhaps have a link to the latest one? TIA

imo

 

[JBean]

Regarding the US vs Aussie crime stats.

That discussion has no bearing or relevance on this case.

If someone should do a drive by and post about it again- please do not respond- report it and it will be taken care of.

Thanks.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Jillycat could you share where the information that the remains found in mom's crawl space were in a cooler was learned?..a link?..or was on local news?(which should still be available online)

TIA

 

[Kimster]

8 PM EST TONIGHT ON TRICIA'S TRUE CRIME RADIO HOLLY HUGHES & CAROL MCKINLEY ARE OUR GUESTS TOPIC JESSICA RIDGEWAY & HER 17 YR OLD KILLER! WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN THIS WORLD? WE WILL TRY AND FIGURE IT OUT TONIGHT 8 PM EASTERN


CLICK HERE TO LISTEN.









~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

:bump:

Click on my link! The show will start in about 30 minutes!!! :great:

 

[SmoothOperator]

My dil is a sociologist and a counselor at a high school and not to disparage counselors in any way, but I would not want my son or daughter going to her for any problems. She has way too many of her own. Actually she is in counsellling for her own anger management issues. Very nice as to outside appearances, but a little horror to family and friends. She doesn't have many friends anymore and has totally alienated many family members. jmo

Your DIL is far from the only counselor/psychologist/psychiatrist who is deeply troubled themselves.. This imo is par for the course.. I say it because Ive seen it over and over(not to mention my sister is a psychologist who would likely fit this catagory)..in fact its quite common that many times people who do have multiple issues specifically go into this type profession as a way of somehow helping themselves..

Again imo your DIL is quite likely the "norm" rather than abnormal..jmo.

My kid (17) has swords, chinese throwing stars (THANKS EX BOYFRIEND!) and various other crap that even adult men I know still hang onto. It's a guy thing. I found this out to be true by just asking my male friends. But AS isn't a typical teen although I think he had some semblance of being one, his deeper desires were anything but.

Yes, regardless of what some opinions may be that our children are deeply troubled due to collecting knives or japanese swords, imo thats just not near correct and only lumping in many into a catagory that they have no business being lumped in with(especially that they would be arrested for owning the weapons..GMAB)..

My son became a collector due to the fact that my grandfather was and they were extremely close until he died last year..my son has many of my grandfathers knives and swords that date back over a century.. They have extreme sentimental value and imo are notnegative in any way whatsoever..

I do realize there are individuals who do collect such for not so positives reasons and that the knives represent violence or death(as they possibly to Sigg).. But just as with all things the negative many times is what sadly over shadzows something that realistically is a positive in the majority of peoples situations..jmo.

The MSM reports I recall were the words "not intact". That can mean a lot of things. I thought because of the delay in identification maybe teeth pulled ( dental records), hands missing ( dna from fingernails) and uggh ( I can't even type it, inability to determine sex). That being said, I wonder about the sudden information requested regarding the cross. We don't know for sure where that cross was found. I think it is a possibility the unique markings were perhaps left on the body and LE was looking for some meaning to them while also a link to the person who owned this cross. Just my thoughts.

Yep this is the conclusin I came to before Sigg was even arrested.. The minute LE redirected focus on the actual markings of the cross, I posted that I believed it possible those markings were found on the torso..jmo.

 

[Foxfire]

Thank you! So that suggests to me that Austin took Jessica to his mother's house. i'm assuming one, or the other, because of the temperatures on October 5.

Respectfully disagree, otto. AR Siggs, would have had a very private safe haven/ritual grounds which was located near a water source; creek, pond, etc. He could not have risked being caught by a family member or unexpected guests, and would have wanted privacy while performing his evil deeds and the dismemberment rituals.
Imo, his safe haven will be located in a nearby primitive state/national forest or abandoned house, shed, etc. A place he had frequented before and felt safe. The weather would not have been a consideration, imo.

 

[nikb]

From here: http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_2...rait-jessica-ridgeway-suspects-family-emerges

"Like other neighbors, Fox found Sigg the type of kid who would stop and chat in the driveway.

"He was wonderful. He was a respectful kid," she said."

<snip>

"We'd seen the Sigg boys down here," Garone said. "They were very nice, very polite."

<snip>

"A few weeks before Jessica went missing, Isaiah said, his antics with his slingshot annoyed a group of teenagers playing football in the open-space area &#8212; and Sigg, one of the players, began bullying him."

Some of the prior things people have said about him, "egotistical," "brilliant," "creepy," were in this article too, I just didn't quote them in the interests of space. I find it so strange how the descriptions of him vary so widely. Of course there's always the "we're shocked, we had no idea!" type responses because really, it's not that common for someone to come out and say "ohh yeah we kinda thought the kid next door was probably a murderer."

IMO though it's striking to be to see him described as anything from brilliant to polite/friendly/nice/respectful to anti-social, super creepy and even a bully, all from people who either lived or went to school near/with him. It makes me wonder if his personality changed rapidly, depending maybe on what situation he was in, who he was talking to, etc.? Or maybe he changed dramatically fairly recently?

 

[i.b.nora]

Austin Sigg really doesn't strike me as the outdoorsy type.

 

[OwlMom]

I don't know if this article has been posted but it discusses how police strategy and release of information may have contributed to the call from the mother of AS.

Notably, it also mentions a neighbor who lives across the street from the Sigg family and his report to police about finding his missing cat cut in half last summer.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21871553/police-strategy-may-have-spurred-mom-suspect-austin

I saw that today too. It gave me chills, as did the report (in the other story about the case, iirc) about the 11-year-old girl who reported a "creepy teenager" but not at Ketner--at a park in the neighborhood just south of Countryside. I ran through that park this afternoon and reminded myself that the teens at the park, doing stuff like playing hockey (there's a rink) and football are normal teens and it won't do anyone any good to start looking askance at all males above the age of 8 or so.

OTOH, the story about the kid with a slingshot being "bullied" by Sigg? I bet I would be accused of "bullying" that same kid, if something from a slingshot gets vaguely near my kids and I say something to you and the action is repeated, yeah, I will chew you out. Somehow I'd guess that shooting stuff at teens playing football has the same effect. Shocking!

The homicide rate in Colorado (2.4 per 100,000 in 2010) is much lower than the national homicide rate (4.8 per 100,000).

Six cats where found mutilated in a Denver neighborhood back in August. If I mapped it correctly, the neighborhood is located not too far out of the way from the community college he attended.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/cats-found-decapitated-gutted-in-denver-yards

No, that's not close. There's a lot of traffic and a lot of lights involved. If it was right off I-25, maybe, but that's not a quick drive from here. There are plenty of cats in this area if someone is bored. The city actually has cat traps that we can sign out when the cat population gets out of control. (Yes, they're humane and we call animal control when one is in the trap.) One of my neighbors caught six in the space of two days once.

ITA. The crime rate is very low here. We have lived here almost 16 years and it's been an extremely safe place to live. I have even lived in "bad" parts of town here and still felt safe.

Yes yes yes. I've lived south of Chicago, gone to college near Gary, Indiana, and my husband lived in one of the less-nice areas of Philly and drove through some of the worst parts to get to Temple. Denver's got nothing on that.

What's with kids collecting knives and swords anyway? Notice that his friend lives one street from Sigg. JMO

They're cool looking? Plus, I think someone said he was into Japanese anime, and if he was into Japanese stuff then samurai swords and the like would be an attractive kind of thing. People collect guns too, but most people seem to think that's perfectly normal--out West, at least.

 

[TreeClimbingGirl]

While that is true that violent crime overall is down it is still very alarming to me that juveniles committed 766 murders in 2010. Almost twice as much as children who were murdered by their parents.

Q: How many murders are committed by juvenile offenders in the United States?
A: Known juvenile offenders were involved in at least 766 murders in the U.S. in 2010, representing about 8% of all known murder offenders.

http://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/offenders/qa03105.asp?qaDate=2010

And more and more juveniles who are committing homicide their cases are being sent to adult court which means those cases would not be listed as juvenile offenses in the statistics.

That is roughly two juveniles per day murdering someone. Now those are just the solved cases where the suspect is known. There are so many cases that have remained unsolved for decades and until they are they will not be applied to any statistical category.

I tried to look for the 2011 violent crime statistics but was unable to locate it. Do you perhaps have a link to the latest one? TIA

imo

The data for 2011 is only preliminary-so it doesn't include the parsing for age of offenders. Here are the links to the preliminary reports though:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011

However, the Bureau of Justice Statistics has information about overall trends:

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/teens.cfm

• Offending rates for teens (14-17 years old) and young adults (18-24 years old) increased dramatically in the late 1980's while rates for older age groups declined.
  
• Offending rates for children under age 14 increased in the late 1980's and early 1990's, but fell to the lowest level recorded in 2003.
  
• Young adults (18-24 years -old) have historically had the highest offending rates and their rates nearly doubled from 1985 to 1993. Since 1993 offending rates for 18-24 year-olds have declined but remain slightly higher than levels prior to the mid 1980's.
  
• Offending rates of teens (14-17 years old) increased rapidly after 1985, surpassing the rates of 25-34 year-olds. After 2000, the offending rates for young teens reached the lowest levels recorded and fell below those for 25-34 year-olds.

They only tracked the data up to 2005...I'll see if I can get more recent data. But I do not believe there has been an overall increase in juvi violent crime rates.

 

[nikb]

To add to my prior post, also find it interesting that now we're hearing more about him doing things like going to karate class, playing football with neighborhood kids, and going camping with his family (Mom/brother it sounded like). These are all included in the same link in my last post. I kind of wondered if some of the early reports, especially from the high school aged kids, were maybe a result of gossip, hype, and hysteria going on among the kids/teens at school and home (we were all teenagers once, you know what I mean ), but descriptions seem to vary so much even among younger kids (the 11 year old who was creeped out and suspected him immediately), and adults. Even his Mom must've had some idea that everything wasn't quite right with him to even consider he could've done this. I'm not sleuthing the Mom or blaming her for anything, in fact I admire her immensely! I just wonder if anyone, even AS himself, knows "who" he really is.