Found Deceased CO - Joseph Keller, 18, Antonito, 23 July 2015 - #1

[Eileen730]

I think his mom is from South Africa - this area has a very diverse population because of Lee University and several companies that have built here (WACKER and Volkswagen, etc.)

OK but was he born here?
Is dad his dad? or Stepdad?

 

[gmomof03]

I'm not a true "runner," so please if I'm way off base don't beat me to a pulp over this, but....

Do runners just run in whatever they are wearing? What I am wondering is that if he arrived at 8am and had been riding/driving for a while, then arrived, ate lunch, chopped wood, did some trap shooting, would he just go running in whatever he had on or would he change? In my limited running experience, I had "running shoes" and clothes specific to that activity. I'm probably overthinking this and he certainly could have pulled stuff out of his bags that were in the car and changed, but I just wish we would get more specifics on this. If his other friends also left the bags in the car, then no biggie. If he was the only one who left them, then yeah I think it is weird.

JMO

I have a friend I run with and while I have loose sweats, running shoes, comfy t shirts I always wear she usually wears reg shorts whichever pair of tennis shoes and sports bra type top so I guess it's more or less whatever one prefers, most runners I have found have a certain level of comfort they need/prefer for running. We also start out at the same pace but rarely stay side by side as I prefer a different surface to run on while she prefers the street when available. The main reason we run together is to watch out for each other being females one can never be too safe you never know where "creepers" are lurking and also bc of injury, we both have cellphones with us as well as whistles.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

I'm not a true "runner," so please if I'm way off base don't beat me to a pulp over this, but....

Do runners just run in whatever they are wearing? What I am wondering is that if he arrived at 8am and had been riding/driving for a while, then arrived, ate lunch, chopped wood, did some trap shooting, would he just go running in whatever he had on or would he change? In my limited running experience, I had "running shoes" and clothes specific to that activity. I'm probably overthinking this and he certainly could have pulled stuff out of his bags that were in the car and changed, but I just wish we would get more specifics on this. If his other friends also left the bags in the car, then no biggie. If he was the only one who left them, then yeah I think it is weird.

JMO

"He was wearing only red reflective shorts and blue running shoes with orange trim."
http://www.chattanoogan.com/2015/7/29/305161/Foul-PlayAbduction-Possibility-In.aspx

About the shoes, I'm not sure. The only (not likely but possibly relevant) information I have been able to find is that approximately three months before the trip, Joe posted a couple of pictures of himself running at a "savage race" on Instagram. In each photo, he is wearing a different pair of shoes, and one can see clearly that neither pair is the "blue running shoes with orange trim." But as I said, these photos were posted months before their trip out west, so most likely it doesn't mean anything.

IMHO only.

 

[1southernmama]

If he still lives at home, his folks might/should/would have some idea of what shoes he has. If he bought them on the trip, his friends would know, & there might even be a receipt.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Not sure about the level of maturity among these young men, but speaking as the mom of an adventurous 17yo, my son & his buddies never go rock climbing or kayaking, etc w/o a plan and a specific time frame. And they would not wait hours before going to look for (and/or get more people involved) for someone who didn't arrive at a reasonable time.
I think information is being held back by local investigators since they initially rejected the help from Bradley County LE when it was offered. Just my opinion of course.

The thing, however, is that Joe and CG did have a plan: As per the first post on this thread, they had planned to run for an hour. It would be a different story if they had said, "See ya in a couple of hours/at dinner," etc. CG's brother posted twice on the FJK FB (=rumor per WS TOS) page on Aug. 21st. In the first post he says CG and CF waited for hours to see if Joe would turn up and to search on their own. In his second post, he reports it was in fact after an hour that CG and CF started their own search. It has never been reported at what point someone other than CG and CF became aware that Joe hadn't returned from a run (and CG's brother says in one of the above posts that he isn't sure what time CG and CF contacted someone, either), but nonetheless, the end result was that it was at least 6.5 hours after the time at which Joe and CG had agreed to meet back up before LE showed up at the ranch.

Further, though it appears that the post has been deleted, an admin of the FJK FB page reported on Sep. 5th that CG actually had to slow down more than once and also vomited at the end of the run (as referenced on page 41 of this thread) purportedly due to high altitude. Everybody is different, and obviously I don't know these young men personally, but I am of the opinion that even at their age, the vast majority would at least get another person involved rather quickly, especially when another individual has already gotten ill.
IMHO only.

 

[Monday]

When I first heard about Joe's disappearance and the subsequent search efforts I was picturing very rugged terrain with towering cliffs and steep precipices along their running route where one might have easily slipped and fallen. IMO after having viewed Google maps of RTR and Fdr 250, I didn't really see any areas where one might have fallen any great distance. https://www.google.com/maps/place/R...0x871622e0b4193c63:0x41246b3161289ef9!6m1!1e1 However, these images were satellite images and not street views, so it's difficult to get any real sense of the topography.

If, however, he became disoriented and wandered away from the road and into the forest he might have been tempted to climb to one of the higher elevations to get a better view to reorient himself. In this case, I could definitely envision a fall.

I wonder if venomous snakes are prevalent in the area? It's one possible hazard that Joe could have encountered that I haven't heard mentioned previously.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Not sure about the level of maturity among these young men, but speaking as the mom of an adventurous 17yo, my son & his buddies never go rock climbing or kayaking, etc w/o a plan and a specific time frame. And they would not wait hours before going to look for (and/or get more people involved) for someone who didn't arrive at a reasonable time.
I think information is being held back by local investigators since they initially rejected the help from Bradley County LE when it was offered. Just my opinion of course.

RBBM

Very good point. Makes sense, too.

 

[Caramel]

Can anyone think of a precedent for a sheriff's department from another state to join an investigation like the Bradley County Sheriff proposed to do? Could be that the Conejos County Sheriff declined (at first) the offer because it was unsettlingly odd.

 

[gmomof03]

Can anyone think of a precedent for a sheriff's department from another state to join an investigation like the Bradley County Sheriff proposed to do? Could be that the Conejos County Sheriff declined (at first) the offer because it was unsettlingly odd.

I thought it was odd almost as to say they weren't competent. I read about missing persons on many sites and rarely do they take help from anyone with the exception of the FBI or their states local bureau. They do however usually end up with such organizations as Equusearch or Klaas Foundation who offer their services which have not been mentioned in this case to my knowledge.

 

[Caramel]

I wonder if venomous snakes are prevalent in the area? It's one possible hazard that Joe could have encountered that I haven't heard mentioned previously.

There are two kids of venomous snake in Colorado --western rattlesnake and massasauga. The massasauga is only in the southern grassland area way in the eastern part of the state. Rattlesnakes are all over the state EXCEPT high altitudes. They are rare between 7000 and 9000 feet and just not above 9000 feet. So, not a snake.

Regarding cliffs -no, there are not classic Wile E. Coyote cliffs in the area, but much of the area is scree, which is deceptive. It looks like a slope, but it will take you DOWN, quickly and roughly.

 

[Caramel]

I thought it was odd almost as to say they weren't competent. I read about missing persons on many sites and rarely do they take help from anyone with the exception of the FBI or their states local bureau. They do however usually end up with such organizations as Equusearch or Klaas Foundation who offer their services which have not been mentioned in this case to my knowledge.

They had several of the extremely well-trained and familiar with the area Colorado search and rescue organizations and air support and additional volunteers in the search. It's not much covered in the local news because this is what always happens in the many, many back country search operations that happen in Colorado every year - summer especially. There are protocols and they are usually successful. If law enforcement treated this casually at first, it's because pulling tourists out of trouble is routine. Lots of people go missing for a while. There's an efficient and generally effective means of getting them back.

 

[gmomof03]

They had several of the extremely well-trained and familiar with the area Colorado search and rescue organizations and air support and additional volunteers in the search. It's not much covered in the local news because this is what always happens in the many, many back country search operations that happen in Colorado every year - summer especially. There are protocols and they are usually successful. If law enforcement treated this casually at first, it's because pulling tourists out of trouble is routine. Lots of people go missing for a while. There's an efficient and generally effective means of getting them back.

Makes sense with all the mountainous areas in CO that they would have sufficient persons to turn to locally. Thx

 

[TeaTime]

This one makes no sense. He went out for a jog and in 30 minutes disappeared.

Was he ever really there? A jogger isn't going to wander off into the woods, he is going to stay on a trail so he can keep his footing.

This stinks of something else to me.

 

[Yvettea]

Joseph is far from a typical tourist in trouble. I wonder if they took that into consideration, law enforcement and the searchers that is.

 

[Caramel]

Joseph is far from a typical tourist in trouble. I wonder if they took that into consideration, law enforcement and the searchers that is.

Do you have knowledge of the "typical" subject of Colorado search and rescue operations? Please outline. If so, how - specifically - does he differ from this profile?

 

[Caramel]

If anyone wants to get a "feel" for how search and rescue works and who they look for, you might read some of the stories on the Wilderness and Mountain Search and Rescue News Facebook page linked below, and derive some general insight from a sort of literature review:

https://www.facebook.com/WMSARNews

It is by no means an exhaustive "blotter" of wilderness and mountain SAR activity, but it includes some of the highlights from around the - mostly - West.

 

[margarita25]

When I first heard about Joe's disappearance and the subsequent search efforts I was picturing very rugged terrain with towering cliffs and steep precipices along their running route where one might have easily slipped and fallen. IMO after having viewed Google maps of RTR and Fdr 250, I didn't really see any areas where one might have fallen any great distance. https://www.google.com/maps/place/R...0x871622e0b4193c63:0x41246b3161289ef9!6m1!1e1 However, these images were satellite images and not street views, so it's difficult to get any real sense of the topography.

If, however, he became disoriented and wandered away from the road and into the forest he might have been tempted to climb to one of the higher elevations to get a better view to reorient himself. In this case, I could definitely envision a fall.

I wonder if venomous snakes are prevalent in the area? It's one possible hazard that Joe could have encountered that I haven't heard mentioned previously.

(I'm just coming out of lurkdom to welcome you to this forum. I see it is your first post.

:welcome5:

Going back to lurkdom)

 

[Yvettea]

Do you have knowledge of the "typical" subject of Colorado search and rescue operations? Please outline. If so, how - specifically - does he differ from this profile?

One way in which Joe is typical in that he had a 25% chance of developing altitude sickness despite his physical conditioning (that exceeds a typical person's.) The most common effect of altitude sickness is a debilitating headache. Were Joe to be out in the wilderness in a pair of jogging shorts and suffering from debilitating headache I would hope attempts would be made on the part of the resort (or law enforcement) to find him and help him. Hypothermia can set in fairly quickly if you're unclothed and wet from exertion. But this is an unlikely scenario since no body was found along the road.

 

[Caramel]

One way in which Joe is typical in that he had a 25% chance of developing altitude sickness despite his physical conditioning (that exceeds a typical person's.) The most common effect of altitude sickness is a debilitating headache. Were Joe to be out in the wilderness in a pair of jogging shorts and suffering from debilitating headache I would hope attempts would be made on the part of the resort (or law enforcement) to find him and help him. Hypothermia can set in fairly quickly if you're unclothed and wet from exertion. But this is an unlikely scenario since no body was found along the road.

Either I misunderstand completely or you are saying that, unlike other tourists who go missing in high wilderness in Colorado, Joe was ill-prepared for the elements and at risk for hypothermia and altitude sickness. If my understanding of what you are saying is accurate, I agree that he was ill-prepared and at risk for hypothermia and altitude sickness. I do not agree that these are uncommon qualities among tourists who go missing in high wilderness in Colorado.

Earlier, you said that Joe is "far from a typical tourist in trouble." How so?

 

[1southernmama]

Bradley County (Cleveland,TN) is a very motivated area and lots of people here wanted to be involved and no doubt the BCSO felt they had something to offer. If it were my child lost out of state I'd be thrilled that hometown forces tried to help, and if egos don't get in the way, I would think more professionals would always be welcome by an investigating agency.
I don't think incompetency was insinuated at all.