CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #10

[PommyMommy]

My hunch and my opinion is a stray ping went to one of the new towers in Idaho.

He could have sent those texts from his home, using the wifi feature of the iPhone. That feature limits detection of location to only the internet providers IP address. If the other iPhone features are turned off.

It is the media that is suggesting the phone had to be in idaho

What's a stray ping?

 

[rangerover12]

? Correct me if I’m wrong, but CB just said KB told her that KB was going out to dinner. There was no identification with who or where.

Yes, I have not seen any identification in the interviews

 

[Medstudies]

This has probably already been asked- did KB or PF wear/use smart watches? Fitbits? Similar?

(I’m on WS from my smartphone so my ability to view the images is pretty lousy and then there is the presbyopia .)

I know I saw some images of her cycling and comments that she enjoyed hiking. Which makes me wonder again about the often overlooked tracking devices.

Apologies if this is a repetitious question. I cannot keep up

 

[JEM1975]

Interesting, but is it plausible that PF would know this and be able to employ that knowledge. Or do you think he has an accomplice who is more technically savvy?

Maybe he wasn't necessarily shooting for it to ping in Idaho. Maybe he just knew if it pinged somewhere else it could look like she left with someone.....

 

[BradB]

I have no theory. The case is one of the strangest cases I have come across. I am completely lost. I don’t know why he is acting the way he is unless he really did it or he doesn’t want LE uncovering something illegal going on.

 

[bestill]

Why is there a discussion about a pregnancy text kit? Confused.

 

[JEM1975]

who would Norman protect

His mom?

 

[Ultra Violet]

Not 2trustworthy probably. I don't think PF is going to sit down and tell the truth either.
MOO

It's almost a little 2trustworthy to me, so I doubt there's anything here other than speculation. Even though it's stated as fact.

I was hoping I wasn't the only one picking up on that!

Easy, peasy.

I was trying to say the same thing, but was at a loss for words. A lot of words.

Compliments.

 

[MassGuy]

So if he did it, this is what we have to believe happened or something along these lines.

Whether premeditated or not, he murdered Kelsey. Waited several days to come up with this brilliant plan to dump her body either in Idaho or somewhere where she can never be found, all while having her phone on him while presumably leaving his phone at his house. Let’s say he did all this in his big red truck (which seems the most likely vehicle) or even another vehicle (maybe from a friend or whoever) he sent texts from the persons phone he murdered to his own phone and her boss once he got in Idaho.... Drove all the way back, waited for somebody to call LE because he surely wasn’t going to....

I don’t know. I just don’t know.

Yup. That’s the gist of what I believe happened.

He would have left his phone at home, and used her phone in Idaho to buy time and make it appear that she left on her own.

It would have also put distance between her and him.

He purposely didn’t text her mom, as that would have not only thrown a wrench in his plan, it would be akin to throwing a stick of dynamite.

Unless he had someone using his phone for him, this 24 hour dark period would be quite telling.

If he did this, he made mistakes.

 

[Z88]

I believe what you are saying is that this discussion is unnecessary. Even if you could remotely ping a remote tower, you couldn't send texts messages from that tower. Correct?

Yes. It is very unlikely you could spoof texts even if you could ping the tower. It would require one of three unlikely things:

1: If KB's SIM card was more than 12 years old it would use an insecure older technology that could be spoofed.
2: If you were a technician or engineer with the cell phone company with access to confidential internal records you might be able to generate a spoof.
3: You are a genius cryptographer able to break a code that nobody else has broken yet.

Occam's razor suggests these aren't likely. Even if #1 was true, taking advantage of that fact would be difficult.

 

[alucardsdream]

Why is there a discussion about a pregnancy text kit? Confused.

People were trying to come up with an idea of what KB may have bought at Safeway that could have triggered anger in PF.

 

[CuriousMaine]

So if he did it, this is what we have to believe happened or something along these lines.

Whether premeditated or not, he murdered Kelsey. Waited several days to come up with this brilliant plan to dump her body either in Idaho or somewhere where she can never be found, all while having her phone on him while presumably leaving his phone at his house. Let’s say he did all this in his big red truck (which seems the most likely vehicle) or even another vehicle (maybe from a friend or whoever) he sent texts from the persons phone he murdered to his own phone and her boss once he got in Idaho.... Drove all the way back, waited for somebody to call LE because he surely wasn’t going to....

I don’t know. I just don’t know.

Several days? That's not what I was thinking. I thought she was last seen/talked to on the 22nd and her texts/phone pinged in Idaho on the 25th? Maybe he killed her on the 23rd, buried her the 24th and disbursed the remaining evidence on the 25th? IDK.

 

[rangerover12]

What's a stray ping?

Lol ... THAT is a very good question

Our cell phones, when not in airplane mode, are sending out a stream of identifiers. Identifying the cell phone and asking if there is service available.

Not all these stay close

Some are defected by other electro magnetic forces. Some just travel off into space. If is simply electrical radiation.

Sometimes these go places we do not expect. The engineers I work with call these strays

 

[MsBetsy]

What's a stray ping?

False ping, maybe?

 

[Mimi in London]

Snippets that are playing on my mind:

- At Safeway, KB was not as coiffured/polished-looking as she would normally be in public (her mother expressed surprise at this). Had she been up late, having an ‘emotional conversation’? Or maybe it supports the pregnancy theory.
- I seem to remember her mother’s statement about KB’s plans for TG sounded contrived, overly casual. Something like she was going out, no big plans for dinner at her house or anything like that.

 

[playthe361]

First and foremost, I want to make sure that everyone understands that I have taken a totally neutral position with this case. I have accepted the fact that I know close to nothing about anything that would allow me to get on one side of this fence or another. I spend my time trying to come up with as many possible scenarios that could've played out based on the info I feel to be provable fact, using my thoughts, beliefs and knowledge of basic human behavior. The desired end result, for me is not to determine if someone committed a crime and who that person right now. If I put any focus into trying to figure those things out, my thought process is altered dramatically. Basically, I just can't come up with as many and neutral scenarios.

Again, this is not what I believe took place. This is simply an idea that came to me after looking through information, that is all. What if PF did end up back at KBs home, probably to pick up the child. I am going to assume that he is able enter the home freely, with his own key or with one that is kept in a hiding place. He enters the home and finds KB unresponsive. There are a couple of possibilities that lead to him finding her in this state. A) Someone else had been there before he arrived and committed a crime against KB(I am trying really hard to avoid certain terms here. I apologize if it reads weird because of that.) It could've been someone she knew, a friend, someone who was more than a friend or maybe a complete stranger. At some point KB and this person got into an argument, fight, whatever and something was done to put her in the state that PF found her in. If I am going with a complete stranger that did this, it was a home invasion or something of that nature gone wrong. Or, B) she experienced some sort of reaction to medication, she drank too much and tripped down the stairs, she could have overdosed on something. There is always a chance that she really did have issues with substance abuse, she was having a difficult time with something and she went too far with whatever she was using that day. She passed out, stopped breathing and that was that. I am not sure which one I would lean more towards at this point. It doesn't really matter, one or the other was the cause of how PF found her when he walked into the home. Due to such recent cases like CW and the many, many others that seem to be taking place all over right now, PF goes into a complete panic for a number of reasons. He just found the woman he loves in an unresponsive state. He likely would've experienced intense fear when he realized he was going to be the primary suspect. He then realized his child would not have both parents if he was blamed for this happening. The baby would've been somewhere in the home, probably crying unless she was napping. That would add to the panic. Trying to figure out how to handle the situation, the pain that one would feel when realizing something awful just happened to the woman you love, the fear of being blamed for it, a crying baby somewhere, the extreme emotions in a moment like this would make it very hard for some people to think logically. If it was the overdose or substance related he might've given thought to making sure nobody found out how this happened. Maybe he did not want that to be last thing anyone thought about her. All of those emotions and that thinking could cause some people to be extremely irrational and impulsive. These two things, in an such a traumatic situation, could lead to someone taking steps to cover it up, to make it seem as though the other person just disappeared. Once it was all said and done this person realized what he had just done but, there was no way to go back on it. If he was to come clean about covering up the crime he walked into, nobody would believe a word of it. His situation would end up being worse than it would've been if he had told the truth from the beginning. So, it was too late for that. The following days consisted of the various things we know about through the press releases. He would've obtained the attorney, possibly being honest with that person, which led to him being told not to talk to any media or LE. It is possible they have been trying to come with a plan that would allow him to the tell the truth and also show he did nothing wrong. I could go on and on about how something like this would explain this, that and the other thing but, I hope everyone gets the ideas here.

When I give it even more thought, I believe something like this is very possible. I have read about people reacting in very irrational ways when overcome with intense fear and other emotions. I am interested in reading what you all think about this. Just me thinking out loud, that's all. I have no idea what happened in this case. It is baffling to me.

 

[Gardener1850]

Good answer to a question

But, not an answer to the question I am asking.

What could have been in that bag, that if PF saw it, could have IMMEDIATELY made him emotionally harmful?

Is there something? In YOUR opinion

If there is, that could be a reason LE has not mentioned what was purchased.

Nothing, unless you are a psychopath. No one and nothing can 'make' you harm anyone. IMO.

Please excuse my word choice.

My intent was to imply "trigger"

Please forgive me

My answer was going to be the same as Cardgame but since it looks like you are looking for some reason to blame KB, the only "trigger" I can think of is if she bought a knife and threatened him with it. But even that should not have lead to her being murdered. He is 6'3" and probably all muscle from his line of work and she is only 5'3" and 110 pounds. He could have overpowered her and called 911. There is never a reasonable "trigger" for murdering someone and hiding the body. People who are forced to kill in a self defense situation call 911.

MOO.

 

[alucardsdream]

Snippets that are playing on my mind:

- At Safeway, KB was not as coiffured/polished-looking as she would normally be in public (her mother expressed surprise at this). Had she been up late, having an ‘emotional conversation’? Or maybe it supports the pregnancy theory.
- I seem to remember her mother’s statement about KB’s plans for TG sounded contrived, overly casual. Something like she was going out, no big plans for dinner at her house or anything like that.

I was actually surprised when KB's mom said that...frankly, KB looked more polished than me and my messy bun ever do, and I go to work that way. I wonder if maybe KB would dress down like that a lot when she didn't have to be at work?

My impression of KB's mom when she was talking about KB's plans for dinner was that she was starting to realize that there had been things going on in KB and PF's relationship that KB hadn't told her about. I think she was still trying to work through what had happened and was probably second-guessing what KB told her when they spoke last. MOO.

 

[whoizzit]

What's a stray ping?

LOL! I first read that as stray pig. *makes note to get eye exam

 

[rangerover12]

For anyone out there who might have real expertise in cell tower technology, this question is for you.
How common is it for a glitch to occur that would make it appear that a phone pinged off a tower that it was hundreds of miles away from? Does that kind of thing happen quite a bit or is it extremely rare? I guess what I’m trying to get to is, if you had to put a percentage likelihood on that Idaho tower ping being false, what would you give it? 5% chance? Less? More?

I am betting only 1 in 60 billion trillion pings go that far and are detected.

But, every phone in the world is sending out thousands every hour

Tough math!

Good question

 

[Mom24]

So if he did it, this is what we have to believe happened or something along these lines.

Whether premeditated or not, he murdered Kelsey. Waited several days to come up with this brilliant plan to dump her body either in Idaho or somewhere where she can never be found, all while having her phone on him while presumably leaving his phone at his house. Let’s say he did all this in his big red truck (which seems the most likely vehicle) or even another vehicle (maybe from a friend or whoever) he sent texts from the persons phone he murdered to his own phone and her boss once he got in Idaho.... Drove all the way back, waited for somebody to call LE because he surely wasn’t going to....

I don’t know. I just don’t know.

What we do know is that while Kelsey, a mother of 15 month old, failed to maintain contact with anyone for a week, didn't contact the father who she is the fiance with, who shares parental responsibility with her and who has never taken off before her fiance never reported her missing.
Added to the fact that he's the last person to see her alive and has shown no interest in finding her. Kelsey, who only left with a purse and a phone, left both her cars at home, spoke to mother twice that day and stated she had plans to go out with PF and her child that night.
Those aren't suppositions, they're facts.
No matter what other scenario you come up with for Kelsey's disappearance, there's the fly in the ointment - he never reported her missing. No matter how one tries to overcome that point, there's no explanation for that. None.