CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #11

[SharonNeedles]

I imagine that PF and his family would appreciate your line of thinking. As an outsider reviewing the information that LE and KB’s family have provided thus far, I find it completely justified. PF is an important and natural suspect as “possibly” the last person that saw KB. I say exhaust that suspect to the point he’s no longer viable. Besides, his level of cooperation is suspect in itself!

Yes, I understand that’s why you suspect him. Fortunately the Fourth Ammendment guarantees us protection from unreasonable search and seizure without probable cause. If the probable cause that warrant is based on is the same fluff you just pointed out, nothing found will end up being admissible in court.

 

[BRRI]

The fact that LE has performed follow up searches of both properties might be fine and perhaps LE is simply narrowing or refining its case and/or understanding of the evidence, I don’t get a warm and fuzzy feeling that they’re getting closer. Obviously I hope they are.

This is a good article that came out recently about Mollie's case. Gives a good idea of how investigations can go, how they consider leads, etc: APNewsBreak: 4 faced scrutiny before arrest in Tibbetts case

 

[PrairieWind]

Most employers, in my limited experience, would fire an employee for leaving a text message instead of calling and speaking to a supervisor or manager. Usually, you have to ask for time off verbally or in writing at least the day before or else it is considered as a no-show. She wasn't working at McDonald's. Yes, there are some people who get away with things like that, but I don't think she was one. AFAIK, she may have been fired for it if she showed up after a week. MOO.

I've thought about this some too. We don't know much about this text to the employer other than the employer has confirmed it did happen. It does seem odd to "tell" your employer with a text you will be gone. If one of my employees did that, I would text back for more information. If I didn't get a response I would call. Maybe they did as well. But maybe KB has a good relationship with her supervisor, who I assume is who the text went to. and she texts something like "hey, i've had a family emergency come up. Can I take this week off?" The supervisor looks at the week's schedule and maybe there isn't anything going on that can't be otherwise covered, and texts back "sure." That wouldn't be so odd. So I wouldn't be surprised to learn that not only did the employer receive a text from KB's phone, but that they also sent one back. if her requesting that week off was a really big deal to them, I can't believe that they wouldn't have made more effort to communicate with her.

 

[Wsimm]

It's suspect only in our minds because we do not know what law enforcement knows. Perhaps they have exhausted PF and they are moving on. Only those here with tunnel vision are still riding the PF did it merry go round.

Well, I know there’s an awfully large hole in somebody’s front yard....I guarantee you they weren’t digging a tunnel

 

[allboys]

The biggest takeaway I had from their search yesterday was that they brought things into the home. They weren't seen bringing anything out. So for me, that left me to believe that it's a continuation of the path that they are already headed down, not starting from scratch. JMO.

What are some other things that might have been brought in besides, luminol, finger print kit, and photography equipment, and returning personal items that were removed in earlier search? And ideas? That’s all I can think of with my limited expertise. And actually, other than KB’s personal items, all of what I listed would have been brought back out, right?

 

[susiQ]

It's suspect only in our minds because we do not know what law enforcement knows. Perhaps they have exhausted PF and they are moving on. Only those here with tunnel vision are still riding the PF did it merry go round.

IF they have ruled PF out, why wouldn't they announce that and make his life that much easier? Take the "heat" off him? It would also allow us to get off this merry-go-round

 

[Irmese]

There are 2 recipients of the Nov 25 texts, and there are 2 beneficiaries if they are a ruse. There are a lot of aviators at Doss and the AF and AF Academy guys. If there is a culprit from the Pueblo group, he has effectively cast suspicion on PF, who is suspicious as last known SO. Who is more likely to be able to put a phone on airplane mode, type a couple of texts, and then travel to the Gooding area to discharge those texts: the low tech guy who had never handled a smartphone and used a borrowed one for his dog video and <ETA: drives a red pickup truck>, or the high tech guy who can fly there and back while everyone where he works is off for the long 4 day weekend and flying all over, going home, commercial air or otherwise? He wouldn't have to fly into Gooding specifically, could be Twin Falls or somewhere. Maybe it is someone in the Pueblo group who has ties to that area. A transponder can also be shut off.

Especially after the neighbor is confirming what many have suspected that KB and PF were co-parenting with pickups and dropoffs rather than romantic, there is more cause to believe that PF could be innocent. He could have picked up the baby to take to his family Thanksgiving, and KB was simply picked up by someone else she knows from Pueblo/CSprings, not necessary on Thursday but could be Friday or Saturday. She could have scheduled a firm time & date face-to-face while at work and not left texts or call records.

^JUST THEORIZING HERE, CUI BONO?^

I just don't buy it. If PF is a good guy and is only around to coparent K and he and K had moved on, wouldn't he be more likely to expect her to call to check on K and show up when she was supposed to pick K up again? MOO.

 

[cujenn81]

I just wanted to point out that it’s truly amazing the amount of information LE can ascertain about a person's daily habits, normal routines, and the locations a user frequently visits just by looking at data obtained from various resources. Even if LE doesn't have access to the phone. Even if the user has taken steps to erase text messages and/or their search history. Even if the user resets a phone to its factory settings.

I was searching my brain for cases that have heavily relied on cell phone data to secure convictions and remembered the detailed testimonies of a data analyst and an intelligence expert heard during the kidnapping trial of Heather Elvis. IMO, this testimony was the most damning evidence presented to the jury, and I think it played a major role in the state obtaining a successful conviction. (FYI: Tammy Moorer was ultimately found guilty of one count of kidnapping and one count of conspiracy to kidnap, in regards to the disappearance of Heather Elvis, and was sentenced to 30 years in prison.)

LE has not been able to locate Heather Elvis, has never recovered her phone, and the Moorer family went to great lengths to remove incriminating evidence from their own cell phones (well... they attempted to anyway). Nevertheless, investigators were able to construct a clear timeline of phone movements on the day and night Heather disappeared. They were able to construct this timeline after obtaining a search warrant for her Google location history record, in conjunction with call detail records from her wireless network provider and cell tower location data.

According to the intelligence analyst that testified in that case, Google collects information from its users to offer location specific answers to their internet searches. GPS coordinates are collected every time an activity occurs on the device (for example, when the user unlocks the screen, makes a phone call, opens an app, receives an incoming text, etc.) In Heather's case, on the night she disappeared, Google collected GPS coordinate information approximately 1x every minute.

For example, the information obtained from that warrant allowed them to determine that Heather's phone:
- was at her home address between 1:35 and 2:30 am
- left her home address and traveled a specific route between 2:32 and 2:43 am
- was located at a specific address in the northeast corner of a parking lot (which happened to be the specific location of the restaurant's dumpsters) between 2:43 and 2:57 am
- began to travel back down the route from which it came but turned around at a specific address and traveled back to the previous address between 2:57 and 3:01 am
- was located at the same northeast corner of the parking lot between 3:04 and 3:16 am
- traveled back towards her home between 3:16 and 3:21 am
- was located in the parking lot of her apartment complex between 3:21 and 3:25 am
- left her apartment again and traveled a specific route between 3:25 and 3:35 am
- came to rest at the location where her car was ultimately found abandoned two days later between 3:38 and 3:41 am
- stopped recording activity at 3:41 am

The information they were able to obtain regarding the Moorer's phones include:
- the Powering Event Logs (when their phones were powered on/off) from their wireless network provider
- deleted text messages that were recovered from their computer
- deleted texts, phone calls, and instant messages that were extracted using a Cellebrite device

They were also able to recognize patterns of behavior by analyzing ping data from the Moorer’s wireless provider (for example, pings indicated their phones were located near Heather’s place of employment around the same time Heather’s shift ended -- on multiple occasions -- in the days leading up to her disappearance).

Remember: LE was able to determine those specific details without having access to Heather's phone. With that said, I feel confident LE should be able to track Kelsey's movements up until the moment her phone was disabled and that information should reveal a lot about her activity on Thanksgiving (and, perhaps, the few days that followed.) If, for example, her phone was immediately disabled after her baby was no longer in her custody and remained that way until it was powered on and pinged a tower in Idaho somewhere on the 25th ...that would be a clear indication of very suspicious behavior, IMO.


ETA: They were not able to obtain Google GPS coordinate information for the M's because their Google accounts had been deleted.

 

[ericasf]

What are some other things that might have been brought in besides, luminol, finger print kit, and photography equipment, and returning personal items that were removed in earlier search? And ideas? That’s all I can think of with my limited expertise.

I am not sure myself. Those are the only things that I could think of too. But maybe it's a more thorough search? More detailed testing possibly based on findings at PF's house and from the trash? Just grasping at straws here.

 

[susiQ]

The fact that LE has performed follow up searches of both properties might be fine and perhaps LE is simply narrowing or refining its case and/or understanding of the evidence, I don’t get a warm and fuzzy feeling that they’re getting closer. Obviously I hope they are.

The fact that they are calling it a "complex" investigation makes me think they have lots of tidbits of information or evidence, they just can't wrap it up into a neat little box yet.
IMHO

 

[susiQ]

Yes, I understand that’s why you suspect him. Fortunately the Fourth Ammendment guarantees us protection from unreasonable search and seizure without probable cause. If the probable cause that warrant is based on is the same fluff you just pointed out, nothing found will end up being admissible in court.

But isn't that the point? Warrants aren't based on "fluff". They HAD to have something to get a Judge to sign off on that warrant.

 

[Irmese]

I don't think anything specific. I believe that as adults, we should be able to hold emotions and, maybe, resort to polite discussions?

You are putting words in my mouth, "mad woman" is not my language, in fact, I'd be ashamed to ever call people who struggle in such a derogatory way.

Someone posted mental health facility as an option and I am discussing this option.

I have a feeling that she was OK till the 25th. And the fact that her family was unconcerned till Dec 2 means that the version they heard as to why she was off the radar was plausible. So...there might be many reasons for her to make the trip to Gooding, but one of them could be some facility.

And given her job, it is very obvious that she would not want to sign herself into any facility in Colorado.

Just another scenario. I am slightly tired of discussing cinnamon buns.

If I heard my daughter had checked herself into a facility, I'd be calling the place and I would certainly tell LE if she had checked into one.

 

[Charlot123]

I always struggle with things like mental illness and criminals.

To me there is obviously a mental fault if you think that stealing, murdering, and raping are fine decisions to make. So, at the broadest sense, every criminal (IMO) is mentally ill. The problem becomes, how to address that in terms of the legal system.

If an episode of mental illness (say, acute mania) renders your thinking so flawed that you think you are a prophet when you commit the crimes, you probably could use it a defense. But usually, thinking is not that flawed, and people know enough to cover their tracks, for example. In other world, they understand that they did something wrong.

There is another way to look at it. Say, it is one's first episode, a person feels he is a prophet, kills someone. It becomes not as much about the punishment but about how dangerous he might become. So maybe death penalty is not warranted, but he still should be isolated from the community.

I have more issues with mental retardation, btw, because some people lack the capacity to understand what is right and what is wrong.

 

[UnicornDragon]

Did I miss anything other than searching her townhome again?

 

[Charlot123]

Most employers, in my limited experience, would fire an employee for leaving a text message instead of calling and speaking to a supervisor or manager. Usually, you have to ask for time off verbally or in writing at least the day before or else it is considered as a no-show. She wasn't working at McDonald's. Yes, there are some people who get away with things like that, but I don't think she was one. AFAIK, she may have been fired for it if she showed up after a week. MOO.

She might have sent a text to her boss specifically, saying she had a flu and was very ill, and was staying at home. That she has laryngitis and can not speak, and that her nose and ears are congested so she can't fly. Something that makes sense in the flu season. She could ask for the sick leave of vacation time to be used.

 

[cody22]

What are some other things that might have been brought in besides, luminol, finger print kit, and photography equipment, and returning personal items that were removed in earlier search? And ideas? That’s all I can think of with my limited expertise. And actually, other than KB’s personal items, all of what I listed would have been brought back out, right?

Tools for removing plumbing.

 

[Irmese]

There's no disguising death smells afterwards. But I'm with you on the rodeo theory.

True. I wonder if he has a freezer large enough to put a body in.

 

[Ccging]

I know they have yet to release any info on phone records for either PF or KB, but IF he did something to her I’m very curious if he responded to the text she supposedly sent to him on 11/25. If he did not send any response that could be VERY telling IMO. I’m guessing LE has this info and I’m sure they are not releasing it yet for some reason.

I also want to know just how many times he tried to reach her between 11/22 and 12/2. Again guessing LE knows this based on phone records.

IMO the biggest red flag for me is that he seems to not even miss her, or at least act like he cares. Shoot even SP played the part and was out “looking” for Laci.

 

[Mae’s Friend]

The fact that they are calling it a "complex" investigation makes me think they have lots of tidbits of information or evidence, they just can't wrap it up into a neat little box yet.
IMHO

 

[Wsimm]

Yes, I understand that’s why you suspect him. Fortunately the Fourth Ammendment guarantees us protection from unreasonable search and seizure without probable cause. If the probable cause that warrant is based on is the same fluff you just pointed out, nothing found will end up being admissible in court.

If an unreasonable search and seizure has occurred in relation to PF’s property it has yet to be reported. Im just reading and interpreting the facts as I see them. If LE stomped all over PF’s “Fourth” I suppose that will be determined at a later date and in a different court room!