CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #14 *ARREST*

[stillta]

Twin Falls merits certain attention. When I was checking Idaho as I had no clue what it had (e.g., Costco, motels - because I assumed PF made the trip there) - I came across Twin Falls. And almost at the same time someone on WS posted about "having an eerie feeling" walking on some bridge there, as if Kelsey was close.

I don't know what these coincidences mean. I am not a psychic, nor do I believe in parapsychology. In fact, rather, the opposite. But each time Twin Falls is mentioned in conjunction with this case, I get an "eerie feeling". Maybe it is merely a logical assumption, given that it is a larger place in Southern Idaho, otherwise, as I suspect, not densely populated?

I also remember that neither KB's purse nor her driver's licence have been found.

Makes me wonder if some of these things are in Twin Falls, too.

That was me on the Perrine bridge thinking of Kelsey the other day. I have lived in Idaho my entire life and I know how many people have died jumping off that bridge so there's always that eerie feeling but it's especially eerie while thinking of Kelsey. I did drive out through Gooding and also out to the Malad Gorge today. Sad to hear the news that she was no longer with us this morning. I was praying for a different outcome.

 

[Wrappedup99]

Not sure if this has been posted.

 

[zecats]

Text messages, search history, and app data, aren’t included though.

Those are the things that will be able to shed the most light here.

iPhone to iPhone messages sync to iMac. So does search history. I can text from my laptop as well as my phone. I can clear my history on one and it goes away on both. All depends on types of phones involved here and if Kelsey also had a computer. (That wasn’t destroyed or made to disappear.)

 

[gitana1]

I wish you were right and that it was abnormal but it is not. It’s also not legal to remove children from a parent due to suspicion of a crime - even murder. Children stay with parents suspected of crimes in my city, your city, rural areas & in every area of this country. OJ Simpson & Jason Powell are famous examples but this is absolutely an everyday occurrence. Wish it was different. Sorry it’s not

ETA: MOO

BBM. That's actually not really true. The best interest of the child is the standard in virtually every state in the nation when it comes to child custody determinations. Kids are removed in the context of family law cases due to the suspicion that they might've committed a crime, depending on what it is, frequently.

Kids are removed from parents every day in this nation after they've been arrested but not yet convicted. Because the parent is not able to care for them.

However, parental rights cannot be terminated altogether based on suspicion alone.

Of course in the absence of an arrest, without an on-going custody battle that predated a possible crime, and a party to that case able to litigate, OR in the absence of signs of child endangerment, parents suspected of a crime are going to retain custody. Like Josh Powell.

But we aren't talking about that kind of scenario. PF hasn't been merely accused. He's been arrested and not able to care for his child. So that's different.

That being said, parents who have been arrested for murder don't automatically lose the right to determine who their child will live with. In numerous cases we've seen them allowed to make major decisions about placement or at least to have their wishes strongly considered.

That's why I was fairly surprised by the announcement that the baby would go with Kelsey's family. Because while LE might want that to happen, as well as CPS, the court is going to make the determination. And unless he's deemed unfit, PF may play a part in that decision.

Moreover, who is able to care and provide financially for the child will be important as well as who the child is bonded with. They like to keep status quo. So if she can care for the baby, the court may consider PF's mother first.

Like you, all of this troubles me. Because it is terrible that at the worst moment of their lives, the last thing they have to cling to is often denied to families of murder victims.

In addition, as I stated before, I've seen the families of defendants acting in a punitive and cruel manner to the victim's family when it comes to contact with the child. And that's not good for the child either.

Finally, as I said, I'm biased against the families of defendants. As unfair as that can be. By I've seen too many families of murder defendants that are enmeshed enablers and otherwise dysfunctional. Jason Young's family. josh powell's family. Scott Peterson's family. Chris Coleman's family. Casey Anthony's family. CW's family. Drew Peterson's family. Michelle Parker's ex's family. And on and on and on.

 

[jillianelaine]

Patrick had the strength and ability to kill. He didn't need to solicit someone and increase the risk of exposure . Perhaps the one he solicited, albeit had something to gain from CB's death, refused to take part. Someone in Idaho. Someone who knew the general vicinity of how/where the body/phone resided. Did PF have the means, knowledge and drive to have become involved in illegal dog fighting activities? Does he have enough property to conduct activity like this and go undetected? I know very little about his history with animals, present job, land ownership, blah blah blah....

 

[jillianelaine]

BBM. That's actually not really true. The best interest of the child is the standard in virtually every state in the nation when it comes to child custody determinations. Kids are removed in the context of family law cases due to the suspicion that they might've committed a crime, depending on what it is, frequently.

Kids are removed from parents every day in this nation after they've been arrested but not yet convicted. Because the parent is not able to care for them.

However, parental rights cannot be terminated altogether based on suspicion alone.

Of course in the absence of an arrest, without an on-going custody battle that predated a possible crime, and a party to that case able to litigate, OR in the absence of signs of child endangerment, parents suspected of a crime are going to retain custody. Like Josh Powell.

But we aren't talking about that kind of scenario. PF hasn't been merely accused. He's been arrested and not able to care for his child. So that's different.

That being said, parents who have been arrested for murder don't automatically lose the right to determine who their child will live with. In numerous cases we've seen them allowed to make major decisions about placement or at least to have their wishes strongly considered.

That's why I was fairly surprised by the announcement that the baby would go with Kelsey's family. Because while LE might want that to happen, as well as CPS, the court is going to make the determination. And unless he's deemed unfit, PF may play a part in that decision.

Moreover, who is able to care and provide financially for the child will be important as well as who the child is bonded with. They like to keep status quo. So if she can care for the baby, the court may consider PF's mother first.

Like you, all of this troubles me. Because it is terrible that at the worst moment of their lives, the last thing they have to cling to is often denied to families of murder victims.

In addition, as I stated before, I've seen the families of defendants acting in a punitive and cruel manner to the victim's family when it comes to contact with the child. And that's not good for the child either.

Finally, as I said, I'm biased against the families of defendants. As unfair as that can be. By I've seen too many families of murder defendants that are enmeshed enablers and otherwise dysfunctional. Jason Young's family. josh powell's family. Scott Peterson's family. Chris Coleman's family. Casey Anthony's family. CW's family. Drew Peterson's family. Michelle Parker's ex's family. And on and on and on.

What if it was determined that illegal activity had been conducted on the property? As a random example, dog fighting....? Is that grounds to remove a child from the land/homeowner--even if the property owner wasn't formerly charged?

 

[sweetcaro]

This is just an awful outcome. I will never understand how one chooses such a path. Do the charges mean this was a murder for hire? If so we can expect another arrest?

 

[MassGuy]

This is just an awful outcome. I will never understand how one chooses such a path. Do the charges mean this was a murder for hire? If so we can expect another arrest?

Not necessarily. The charges mean that he attempted to hire someone to kill, or assist in killing Kelsey.

They clearly left the door open to the possibility of more arrests though.

 

[Beamer15]

Not necessarily. The charges mean that he attempted to hire someone to kill, or assist in killing Kelsey.

They clearly left the door open to the possibility of more arrests though.

Could it mean soliciting to help cover up (take phone to Idaho), or help get rid of evidence and or a body?

 

[Writestuff]

Conspiracy to commit a crime - wouldn't that be another possible charge?

 

[otto]

I wonder how much the Berreth family know about the scheme that PF drew up - there is so much yet to be uncovered.

Hasn't her mother been very cautiously asking for help to find her daughter since November 25? She cautioned people to not look too deeply into Kelsey to find the answers. Police weren't even paying attention until December 2.

I think Kelsey's family knew from the beginning that something was wrong, but police did not take their concerns seriously for 10 days even then there was no information about who what when were or why she was last seen. She baked cinnamon buns in the morning, spoke to family, and then completely vanished. Her family had difficulties convincing anyone to look into Kelsey's disappearance.

As for the Patrick scheme, on the surface it appears that he tried to dump evidence using a trailer and got caught. That led to questions about Kelsey's home, and then he was arrested. Did he wrap her in a sheet from one of the beds - with a matching sheet in the home?

 

[Elley Mae]

Snip.

The judge granted the prosecution's request that Frazee have no contact with any witness or anyone else named in the sealed arrest affidavit, with the exception of his family.

Kelsey Berreth: Patrick Frazee, the fiancé of a missing mom in Colorado, is arrested and booked in her murder - CNN

Under the solicitation statute, a suspect would not only have discussed committing a crime with another person but would have taken steps to see it through, May said.

 

[otto]

Could it mean soliciting to help cover up (take phone to Idaho), or help get rid of evidence and or a body?

Soliciting probably means that he told someone else that he would like the mother of his child to be dead. That could include someone taking her phone to Idaho and sending texts to her boss 3 days after anyone spoke to her - that could only be done by someone who knows that she is deceased, knows her who boss and husband are, and wants to delay discovery of her disappearance.

Doesn't one of PF's siblings works in LE? <modsnipped>

 

[otto]

Snip.

The judge granted the prosecution's request that Frazee have no contact with any witness or anyone else named in the sealed arrest affidavit, with the exception of his family.

Kelsey Berreth: Patrick Frazee, the fiancé of a missing mom in Colorado, is arrested and booked in her murder - CNN

Under the solicitation statute, a suspect would not only have discussed committing a crime with another person but would have taken steps to see it through, May said.

That works except if his solicitation included a family member.

 

[Elley Mae]

Berreth’s body has not been found. Police only said that because of multiple interviews, they were able to arrest Frazee. They said they had evidence that led them to believe Berreth was killed inside her Woodland Park home.

Video shows Kelsey Berreth’s fiance being arrested

"Investigators have recovered a number of items that make us suspicious that the crime did occur at Kelsey's residence," said Woodland Park Police Chief Miles deYoung.

 

[otto]

I'm guessing that he just didn't feel like paying child support, and he thought that he figured out the perfect murder.

 

[?mysterian?]

From post 315 of this thread:

"It is after 12 am here and I have family visiting from out of town for the holidays. I am tired so my admonition may not be as forceful as is warranted after all the TOS violations on the thread. Many posts were removed for bashing family, suggesting their involvement, sleuthing family social media and backgrounds. It is against TOS to randomly accuse family members of involvement when they have not been charged or named as suspects in a crime.

In addition, posts by an unverified member continue to be referenced when their posts were removed. Do not discuss removed posts or information garnered from other members who have not been verified.

These admonitions have been posted on the first page of the thread but many have ignored them. Post accordingly or there may be consequences such as thread reply bans, timeouts or bans.

Thread is open again.

Harmony 2, Today at 1:33 AMReport
#315Unlike+ QuoteReply"

 

[otto]

I guess the solicitation for murder remains a complete mystery - no one knows who might be in Idaho.

 

[Elley Mae]

Soliciting probably means that he told someone else that he would like the mother of his child to be dead. That could include someone taking her phone to Idaho and sending texts to her boss 3 days after anyone spoke to her - that could only be done by someone who knows that she is deceased, knows her who boss and husband are, and wants to delay discovery of her disappearance.

Doesn't one of PF's siblings works in LE? <modsnipped>

Jmo One sibling at least, and other family members.


I read it early on, seems that info has been scrubbed.

 

[InvSmith]

So does this mean that all this was carried out with the baby daughter present on or around the 22nd? This just struck me now. I pray not!.

 

[1mtroyal]

Twin Falls merits certain attention. When I was checking Idaho as I had no clue what it had (e.g., Costco, motels - because I assumed PF made the trip there) - I came across Twin Falls. And almost at the same time someone on WS posted about "having an eerie feeling" walking on some bridge there, as if Kelsey was close.

I don't know what these coincidences mean. I am not a psychic, nor do I believe in parapsychology. In fact, rather, the opposite. But each time Twin Falls is mentioned in conjunction with this case, I get an "eerie feeling". Maybe it is merely a logical assumption, given that it is a larger place in Southern Idaho, otherwise, as I suspect, not densely populated?

I also remember that neither KB's purse nor her driver's licence have been found.

Makes me wonder if some of these things are in Twin Falls, too.

It sounds to me that they know the person who took the phone to Idaho and he is cooperating and he probably threw it in the river or trash and he told them that and they are looking in the river or trash or along the road for it.