CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #16 *ARREST*

[riolove77]

I just want to clarify one thing from a legal standpoint, once and for all.

As the charges stand NOW (subject to additional charges possibly), PF has been charged with solicitation to commit first degree murder. Not anything to do with moving the body after, anything to do with shipping or transporting the phone after, anything to do with cleaning up the mess after.

Solicitation to commit first degree murder means he solicited someone to help him commit the act that caused her death, PRIOR to her death.

If someone complied, perhaps we will see a conspiracy charge come up. If someone helped him after the fact, perhaps we'll see accessory after the fact come up. If someone helped him during, we might see an accessory to murder 1 charge.

But as it is now, he went to someone and asked for help killing KB prior to her murder happening. AND he is charged with murder 1. This was fully premeditated, not in the heat of passion, not a snapped situation, not second degree.

 

[jillianelaine]

If it took him 3 days to go 700 miles he must have been carrying her body and/or evidence there on horseback. Lol. In my mind getting rid of the phone would be the last thing he did. Maybe he kept KB's phone a few days to see who would call. Maybe her mom called both Friday and Saturday and left voicemails for KB and also tried calling him Saturday or on Sunday morning. So Sunday he puts "operation ditch the phone and distract/delay" into action. Then perhaps Sunday evening he calls CB back and tells her KB texted to say she was taking a week and going to Washington. MOO.

Yes, we agree on that point. Ditching the phone was probably the last thing he did! And I think there was an alternative reason he may have ended up in Idaho. With so little information released, the mind can go too many directions. Did he tell HIS mother he was accompanying Kelsey to a friends home for the holiday and therefore stayed away for a few days? Was he distressing after what he has just done and went on a road trip? SO many questions, so few answers.

 

[mickey2942]

If it took him 3 days to go 700 miles he must have been carrying her body and/or evidence there on horseback. Lol. In my mind getting rid of the phone would be the last thing he did. Maybe he kept KB's phone a few days to see who would call. Maybe her mom called both Friday and Saturday and left voicemails for KB and also tried calling him Saturday or on Sunday morning. So Sunday he puts "operation ditch the phone and distract/delay" into action. Then perhaps Sunday evening he calls CB back and tells her KB texted to say she was taking a week and going to Washington. MOO.

There is a heck of a lot of open space between CO and ID. If he can't be tracked by GPS on a cell phone, if KB is out there somewhere, it is unlikely that LEO will find her.

If she was taken to the dump, it is more likely. Sad. Either way.

 

[jillianelaine]

I doubt PF sat at home and went nowhere from Nov. 22 until Dec. whatever. There have got to be local people (like the waste dump employee), or friends or acquaintances, who saw him at various places. I hope they speak up and are sharing their info, even if they think it is small or not a big deal.

I'd love to learn that he had a second phone with incriminating evidence which he had inadvertently left at someones home. I'd love to learn he went to great lengths to pull this thing off, only to have done something really stupid, resulting in the arrest.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I just want to clarify one thing from a legal standpoint, once and for all.

As the charges stand NOW (subject to additional charges possibly), PF has been charged with solicitation to commit first degree murder. Not anything to do with moving the body after, anything to do with shipping or transporting the phone after, anything to do with cleaning up the mess after.

Solicitation to commit first degree murder means he solicited someone to help him commit the act that caused her death, PRIOR to her death.

If someone complied, perhaps we will see a conspiracy charge come up. If someone helped him after the fact, perhaps we'll see accessory after the fact come up. If someone helped him during, we might see an accessory to murder 1 charge.

But as it is now, he went to someone and asked for help killing KB prior to her murder happening. AND he is charged with murder 1. This was fully premeditated, not in the heat of passion, not a snapped situation, not second degree.

^ THIS ^

 

[Deleted member 102539]

deleted, because Hatfield said the same but faster (incinerator)

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I'm thinking on those lines.

Took care of the body on day/night 1. Realized afterward the phone ping in Idaho would be a red herring. So he or somebody takes a trip. I do not see a scenario where he takes two separate trips; or takes a body and phone on day three.

PF doesn't know that no one is missing Kelsey, or looking for her by the 25th. He likely turned the phone off on the 22nd, so he wouldn't know if anyone called- but in his mind he will think that people have. So I doubt Kelsey's phone was turned back on until the 25th in Idaho.

I think he would be looking over his shoulder by the weekend of the 25th with increasing level of paranoia. PF knows LE will be coming to him with questions, he just doesn't know when. Which leads me to believe he had assistance with the phone.

There is no way to know at this point, so this is my speculation.

If he did travel so much, I would not think he took the baby. Therefore, the person he left the baby with if he did travel for such a time will be very instrumental in what that person said to law enforcement. M o o. Looking forward to that interview. If this goes to trial we probably will not see this information until the trial.

Can someone here clarify? In the State of Florida, the Freedom of Information Act allows people to see things before trial. In Colorado, is it released only after trial or before trial just like Florida? I'm not sure because of the Watts case.

 

[Charlot123]

I don't think he looks cold. I think he looks stoic, maybe resigned, or even relieved.

I think SF and PF had their mutually beneficial partnership established and they were comfortable - she helps him, he helps her. They have lived there quietly for 20 years since he was about 12. Enter KB, and then baby K. PF went quickly from 1 female to 3 females, each with different needs from him. I think he may have gotten to the 'my life isn't worth living like this' point, and the escape route became murder KB. In his mind, he may have seen KB as ruining his life, his previous tranquility and autonomy. He knew the consequences of getting caught would be prison, with men, and may have simply thought that it was better than his situation as it was. He is effectively now relieved of responsibilty for the needs of KB, SF and baby K, and his loss of his animals, rodeo, ranching lifestyle is costly to him, but prison is perhaps less confining, less stressful, and some sort of freedom.

I don't see PF as some sort of all-around bad guy. He has no criminal record, not even a DUI. He has no cases or sanctions from the farrier, rodeo, or cattle associations, or from animal control, or from the State.

I think he came to just hate KB and wanted to eliminate just her. I don't think he is like CW, a family annihilator. I never thought through this that baby K or SF or anyone else was in danger.

I am not defending his choice of action, and not victim-bashing. Like others, I am trying to understand how a seemingly average, quiet, non-criminal guy ends up committing this sort of crime.

BBM

No. Not in danger. KB's family might have been.

There might be two sides to it. One, with KB, I think he came to silently, ragefully, hate her. Somehow she was demeaning his manliness. Whether by not wanting to marry him, or continuing her career, her life...I don't know. Consider this, she may have been not the first one to turn him down as a husband, then, it might be anger with all women transferred on to her.

Another one is, he probably was darn lonely at that farm. And the kid was the only happy part. So any perceived threat to lose the child, or even spend less time with her, could have caused this reaction. Plus, SF also got attached to the kid. And Kelsey, probably, was thinking of a better school for the child, maybe a,Montessori kindergarten in the future. Something a farm did not have.

In this situation, anything mentioned in passing, like "mom said they opened a great new immersion school at Sandpoint, something to think about for K. along the lines", might have caused fear, and triggered the tragedy.

 

[haven71]

I'm thinking on those lines.

Took care of the body on day/night 1. Realized afterward the phone ping in Idaho would be a red herring. So he or somebody takes a trip. I do not see a scenario where he takes two separate trips; or takes a body and phone on day three.

PF doesn't know that no one is missing Kelsey, or looking for her by the 25th. He likely turned the phone off on the 22nd, so he wouldn't know if anyone called- but in his mind he will think that people have. So I doubt Kelsey's phone was turned back on until the 25th in Idaho.

I think he would be looking over his shoulder by the weekend of the 25th with increasing level of paranoia. PF knows LE will be coming to him with questions, he just doesn't know when. Which leads me to believe he had assistance with the phone.

There is no way to know at this point, so this is my speculation.

THIS^^^

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Is this a theory or is it confirmed?

Remember what the spokesperson said about the ping? Also what LE has said about how they were able to get PF?
So it has not been confirmed they have her phone if that's what you are asking.
Also I did say MOO.

 

[WildWest]

I wonder if his mom, or someone in his family, owned property in Idaho?

I do too, or, in Washington. 1-25 to I-80 headed for WA but dumped it sooner than expected so ID instead.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

IMO in his booking photo ( mug shot - old school ) he looks very cold thru his eyes and he does not look like he has lost much sleep over this ordeal, he looks rested .

I find, he looks like a little schoolboy being scolded and a little bit scared, what might come to him. IMO

 

[Irmese]

I'm thinking on those lines.

Took care of the body on day/night 1. Realized afterward the phone ping in Idaho would be a red herring. So he or somebody takes a trip. I do not see a scenario where he takes two separate trips; or takes a body and phone on day three.

PF doesn't know that no one is missing Kelsey, or looking for her by the 25th. He likely turned the phone off on the 22nd, so he wouldn't know if anyone called- but in his mind he will think that people have. So I doubt Kelsey's phone was turned back on until the 25th in Idaho.

I think he would be looking over his shoulder by the weekend of the 25th with increasing level of paranoia. PF knows LE will be coming to him with questions, he just doesn't know when. Which leads me to believe he had assistance with the phone.

There is no way to know at this point, so this is my speculation.

Yes, makes sense.

 

[Gardener1850]

I think it's an arguable point. PF is charged with solicitation; that means he tried, by some means, to get someone to help him before the act.
We don't know who, or how many people, he may have approached before the act/acts.

That's true. There could be more charges coming for a 3rd party person or persons involved. JMO.

 

[WildWest]

Remember what the spokesperson said about the ping? Also what LE has said about how they were able to get PF?
So it has not been confirmed they have her phone if that's what you are asking.
Also I did say MOO.

Thanks, yes, I was asking about the ping (not the phone). Edit, found it via google, thanks!!

 

[jillianelaine]

I just want to clarify one thing from a legal standpoint, once and for all.

As the charges stand NOW (subject to additional charges possibly), PF has been charged with solicitation to commit first degree murder. Not anything to do with moving the body after, anything to do with shipping or transporting the phone after, anything to do with cleaning up the mess after.

Solicitation to commit first degree murder means he solicited someone to help him commit the act that caused her death, PRIOR to her death.

If someone complied, perhaps we will see a conspiracy charge come up. If someone helped him after the fact, perhaps we'll see accessory after the fact come up. If someone helped him during, we might see an accessory to murder 1 charge.

But as it is now, he went to someone and asked for help killing KB prior to her murder happening. AND he is charged with murder 1. This was fully premeditated, not in the heat of passion, not a snapped situation, not second degree.

He was charged with solicitation. And at this point, no one else has been charged. In your professional opinion does this tell us anything regarding whether that 2nd person was involved in the murder, or the cover up. Or is it far too early in the investigation to tell....

 

[v0x]

Kelsey Berreth’s Fiancé Patrick Frazee Seeks To Limit Pre-Trial Publicity

 

[sun16]

I just want to clarify one thing from a legal standpoint, once and for all.

As the charges stand NOW (subject to additional charges possibly), PF has been charged with solicitation to commit first degree murder. Not anything to do with moving the body after, anything to do with shipping or transporting the phone after, anything to do with cleaning up the mess after.

Solicitation to commit first degree murder means he solicited someone to help him commit the act that caused her death, PRIOR to her death.

If someone complied, perhaps we will see a conspiracy charge come up. If someone helped him after the fact, perhaps we'll see accessory after the fact come up. If someone helped him during, we might see an accessory to murder 1 charge.

But as it is now, he went to someone and asked for help killing KB prior to her murder happening. AND he is charged with murder 1. This was fully premeditated, not in the heat of passion, not a snapped situation, not second degree.

Totally agree and think we will see a bunch of info and go...”wow”.

 

[Trudie]

That isn’t what solicitation of murder means though. I suppose we’ll see. I’d rather it be a spontaneous thing that wasn’t premeditated, but I don’t think that will be the case this time.

I think, due to her schedule, he had to plan it for Tday weekend.

 

[bestill]

Haven't had time to read these but so much for no news on Christmas Eve!

Colorado Judicial Branch