CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #16 *ARREST*

[jillianelaine]

As far as coverup goes, can’t tell yet, because the solicitation charge wouldn’t be for that. So if someone else was involved in the murder and that’s where the solicitation charge comes from, we can see that charge dropped and a conspiracy charge added. Solicitation merges into conspiracy once the other party accepts and a step is taken to act on it. So we wouldn’t have both, at least not as it pertains to the same person.

So if person A was asked and declined, he wouldn’t be criminally culpable and that could be where the solicitation charge comes from. If person B was asked and complied, we might see a conspiracy charge as it relates to that person. It’ll be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Thanks for helping me understand this!

 

[WildWest]

They might not want the public to see something in that portion of the footage. Maybe it is part of their ongoing investigation that they want to be secret, for now.

Am I

Might you be able to confirm my recollection that a neighbor saw PF pick up K from KB at her house on the 22nd? And that PF parked behind her vehicle sideways like he usually does?

 

[Mercedes]

I just saw that the motion was DENIED. Let me get the link, it shows the denial documentation

IMO, the reporter misunderstood.

 

[Jennifer17]

Am I

Might you be able to confirm my recollection that a neighbor saw PF pick up K from KB at her house on the 22nd? And that PF parked behind her vehicle sideways like he usually does?

The neighbour did not see him or the baby, just his truck parked there.

 

[PommyMommy]

I just saw that the motion was DENIED. Let me get the link, it shows the denial documentation

The defense filed this motion on 12/21 to limit pretrial publicity: https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...st/2018CR330/001/Motion To Limit Pretrial.pdf

The prosecution filed their response today, 12/24: https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...ant's Motion to Limit Pre-Trial Publicity.pdf

The court has not ruled on the motion: Colorado Judicial Branch - Teller - Cases of Interest - The People of the State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee

This report is incorrect:
New court documents in State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee
Frazee is being denied a request to limit pretrial publicity.

 

[Trudie]

I thought I read here a few threads ago that the case number indicated that it was done the day he was arrested. Even if not, the fact that it didn’t show up in court records until that day is a good indicator that it was not filed prior to her disappearance. That would have been widely talked about prior to his arrest if that was the case.

Someone with a little knowledge of court cases told me if the case was filed after PFs arrest, it should NOT have K’s name on it. She’s not appearing in court, sadly. At least we are led to believe that’s not a possibility. Therefore, the case should be in the name of her mom or attorney. My friend is a paralegal, not in CO, tho. Things may be dif’.

 

[Gardener1850]

If I recall her mother stated she did not know about the baby
exchange that day.

I wonder about this, too. And, his mom will (likely) back his claim. So, we may never know. If KBs mom said there was no planned exchange, we’re left with two devastated women with different opinions. We can’t ask KB & PF has spoken to this.

Her mom said that KB had plans to go to dinner with PF and Baby K. Nothing about an "exchange" of baby. Just a minute, I will find the info from previous posts and link.

ETA: See post here: CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #5

 

[WildWest]

New court documents in State of Colorado v. Patrick

Thank you, but I have yet to see an Order from the Court denying the Defendant’s Motion to Limit the Pre-Trial Publicity. IMO, a reporter misunderstood.

Pommy, I have zero legal experience and I understood this as a denial, could you explain it for me please?

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...ant's Motion to Limit Pre-Trial Publicity.pdf

 

[heartgoesout]

Well fellow sleuthers, I'm off to start celebrating the holiday.
Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.

 

[PommyMommy]

Pommy, I have zero legal experience and I understood this as a denial, could you explain it for me please?

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/001/P-5 People's Response to Defendant's Motion to Limit Pre-Trial Publicity.pdf

It is the People's (Prosecution's) Response:

PEOPLE’S RESPONSE TO DEFENDANT’S MOTION TO LIMIT PRE-TRIAL PUBLICITY (P5)

When the court rules on the motion, an Order will be issued. Example Order:
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...1/Order Preservation of Physical Evidence.pdf

 

[WildWest]

The neighbour did not see him or the baby, just his truck parked there.

Oh dear, this changes so much of my thinking. Thanks!

 

[PommyMommy]

Well fellow sleuthers, I'm off to start celebrating the holiday.
Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.

 

[cody22]

" The children were all snuggled, all safe in their beds, while visions of insomnia, red shirts, fitbits, phone pings, and cinnamon buns danced in their heads........." ..." Merry Christmas fellow sleuthers and sleutherettes !!!!! "

 

[Mercedes]

How long until the court is likely to make a decision on the publicity motion?

TIA!

Generally speaking, in state court, the Court can determine when he/she wants to rule on the Motions. (Within reason). I would be very surprised, in a murder case, if the Court rules on any Motion without a hearing. In my experience, the lawyers ask for a hearing date to argue their motions.

This being said, I have not practiced in CO state court, and I am not familiar with the local rules. I hope this helps muddy the waters!

 

[jewelsmac]

Right! Sioux if you’re not a lawyer you should be.

yes, that was amazing detail

 

[WildWest]

It is the People's (Prosecution's) Response:

PEOPLE’S RESPONSE TO DEFENDANT’S MOTION TO LIMIT PRE-TRIAL PUBLICITY (P5)

When the court rules on the motion, an Order will be issued. Example Order:
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/001/Order Preservation of Physical Evidence.pdf

Ahhhh. Response is not a Motion, right? Thanks

 

[riolove77]

While that's what he's been charged with, the body is not in the home where LE has determined the murder took place, the phone was not in the same state where LE determined the murder took place, and the home where LE determined the murder took place didn't appear to be out of order when her brother and LE did a wellness check. Would it be likely to add those charges as the investigation proceeds? Because it seems logical that the body was moved, the phone was taken into another state and the crime scene was cleaned.

Yeah I mean these are preliminary charges. There's nothing to say they won't add ten more or twenty more based on whatever else they have and/or find.

 

[SiouxSays]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

<modsnip - response to removed post>

I could care less about any aspect of the case or those involved, other than a remote sympathy toward the loved ones of KB, sorrow for her now-parentless child, and a deep and abiding interest in all things relating to criminal law (especially those with mysterious aspects). I have lived in South Carolina for the past 7 years and in Virginia/Tennessee for 39 years prior to that. In other words - extremely disconnected.

To @heartgoesout : I am not an attorney, but I have done legal research for several attorneys and various private parties over the past decade (primarily family law and criminal law issues). All these attorneys and private parties were east of the Mississippi River and did not have any connection to anyone connected with the KB disappearance (to further state the "disconnect").

@BessDrew asked: Just curious - why did you ask so many questions about CB and not PF? <modsnip - refers to snipped statement> (Sorry for not "quoting" it.)

PF's father has not ever been mentioned, as far as I know. <modsnip - sleuthing family>

No one has stepped forward to claim, as they have with KB, that his family is close knit, speaks regularly, or has strong and intimate family ties. <modsnip - sleuthing family>

Also - has it been mentioned yet (in these threads) that PF's attorney is now Adam Steigerwald, a public defender? Jeremy Loew stepped down as private counsel some time within the past couple of days (I think). In that same linked article about Steigerwald, the District Attorney also clarified Colorado's solicitation statute ("steps taken to see it through" and something done "to show the firmness of your actions").

 

[jewelsmac]

All I suggested is this is an angle his attorney might pull out of the hat. And how it could have impacted our victim in life.


My thoughts are is Kelsey, the victim in this case, she got way more than she signed up for. She deserved better. That she might have been struggling and trying to be brave and strong for a long time due to this. That she was silently suffering and trying to empower herself. That she was failing to present reality and intelligence to this guy who might have not had the capacity to work with her in a meaningful way. My heart goes out to her.


Guys, I’m not sure why my suggestions or thoughts are such an issue. Webslueths has changed so much and we used to be able to contribute and discuss cases on multiple levels, from multiple lenses, and disciplines to connect with our victims. Happy holidays.

Not an issue for me. I thought we were all here to discuss different angles and ideas. We’re not in a court room, people can object all they want but, unless you’re violating terms of service what difference does it make , right?

 

[jewelsmac]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

<modsnip - response to removed post>

I could care less about any aspect of the case or those involved, other than a remote sympathy toward the loved ones of KB, sorrow for her now-parentless child, and a deep and abiding interest in all things relating to criminal law (especially those with mysterious aspects). I have lived in South Carolina for the past 7 years and in Virginia/Tennessee for 39 years prior to that. In other words - extremely disconnected.

To @heartgoesout : I am not an attorney, but I have done legal research for several attorneys and various private parties over the past decade (primarily family law and criminal law issues). All these attorneys and private parties were east of the Mississippi River and did not have any connection to anyone connected with the KB disappearance (to further state the "disconnect").

@BessDrew asked: Just curious - why did you ask so many questions about CB and not PF? <modsnip - refers to snipped statement> (Sorry for not "quoting" it.)

PF's father has not ever been mentioned, as far as I know. <modsnip - sleuthing family>

No one has stepped forward to claim, as they have with KB, that his family is close knit, speaks regularly, or has strong and intimate family ties. <modsnip - sleuthing family>

Also - has it been mentioned yet (in these threads) that PF's attorney is now Adam Steigerwald, a public defender? Jeremy Loew stepped down as private counsel some time within the past couple of days (I think). In that same linked article about Steigerwald, the District Attorney also clarified Colorado's solicitation statute ("steps taken to see it through" and something done "to show the firmness of your actions").
.

well I’m just impressed to hell, just saying. I think most of the questions you posed on ones we have all had, they do you get lost in the fray of late night keyboard jockeying. I for one, appreciated the recap