Thank you for saying this. A third party report, or anyone for that matter at this point, saying he had previously been kicked in the head by a horse may have contributed to what he is charged with currently, at this point anyways, I would think has no bearing on his charges, unless there is medical documentation and/or previous diagnostic studies (such as any of the following - for example - x-ray imaging, CT scan, MRI, etc., and/or even mention of issues by a medical provider). I would think being kicked in the head by a horse prior being brought into the story now, would at least at a minimum need some documentation that he had problems prior to this. I am not saying it isn't possible by all means, but problems previous (prior to his current charges) would have to have been acknowledged before now I would think. This is all JMO and again, I'm not saying it isn't possible that being kicked in the head by a horse caused some problems, but am more so saying, to bring that up now, would need to have something to back it up prior to him being charged with murder.
CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #16 *ARREST*
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Thank you for saying this. A third party report, or anyone for that matter at this point, saying he had previously been kicked in the head by a horse may have contributed to what he is charged with currently, at this point anyways, I would think has no bearing on his charges, unless there is medical documentation and/or previous diagnostic studies (such as any of the following - for example - x-ray imaging, CT scan, MRI, etc., and/or even mention of issues by a medical provider). I would think being kicked in the head by a horse prior being brought into the story now, would at least at a minimum need some documentation that he had problems prior to this. I am not saying it isn't possible by all means, but problems previous (prior to his current charges) would have to have been acknowledged before now I would think. This is all JMO and again, I'm not saying it isn't possible that being kicked in the head by a horse caused some problems, but am more so saying, to bring that up now, would need to have something to back it up prior to him being charged with murder.
dixiegirl1035
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Oftentimes law enforcement focuses on releasing just a snippet to the media. Think of the girls Abby and Libby, and think of Tad Cummings. On both of them they only released a few seconds of information so media could focus their reports on one thing that had the best view of them. In my opinion.
Again, welcome to the threads as I see you are a new member.
LucyOso
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Well, he’s obviously not the brightest candle on the Menorah, because Chris Watts didn’t serve as a deterrent. He could have even discussed crashing or disabling planes with one of her co-workers. He definitely has way more problems than she signup for online. Sadly.
Scoutce
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Due to the wording of the article I was thinking maybe the child exchange was at Safeway not the murder. It was just an interesting thought.
Yes! Based on my experience a neurologist would be involved and lots of documentation would exist re extent of injury, immediate issues post-injury and any long-term problems.
v0x
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It’s crossed my mind that there’s a possibility that there never was a planned exchange. That info came from PF correct?
jewelsmac
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Jesus, Why do I suddenly feel like a complete and total slacker?Hello to everyone and thank you in advance for any tolerance that may need to be tendered my way if I don't get things "just right" when posting.I will try my best.
I have spent the past day and a half reading through all the existing threads on the Kelsey Berreth matter after coming across it in an online news article somewhere. I have numerous questions that either have not been asked, or were asked casually and not answered or discussed further - and if the answers exist, I apologize for being repetitive. Also, I have been keeping track of these "unanswered" questions via an external document, so this is cut-and-paste from there and edited for numbering and redacting purposes (such as changing full names to initials, as appears to be the rule of the boards here).
I know some of these questions have no answers as yet because no one has been forthcoming with information or details that would fill in these blanks (either LE, former employers, friends, relatives, etc.).
The Questions
Those are just things that have occurred to me as I have been reading through the threads, as well as some comments that aren't questions in and of themselves.
- Is it normal, from Doss Aviation's standpoint, for KB to send a text message to her employer informing them of tardiness or absences? The general consensus is that texting is low class when making such notifications, and that most employers harbor intense dislike of that method of information delivery, but there are some for whom impersonal communication is standard.
- Who specifically at Doss Aviation was the text message regarding her absence sent TO from KB's phone? Was it human resources, the general manager/owner, a co-worker, a friend-from-work, or someone else?
- What were the contents of the text to Doss Aviation? Did KB's message provide an explanation for her prolonged absence from work? (Sick, vacation, family troubles, etc.) Was there only one text to Doss, or multiple texts? (It has been reported, and previously discussed in prior threads on the KB disappearance, that Doss received "texts" from KB's phone, whereas the alleged fiance, PF, received "a text.")
- How long had KB been working for Doss Aviation? How did they accommodate her pregnancy? As a flight instructor, at what point in pregnancy did she have to stop working because she could not safely perform all the required duties (such as full stick maneuvering during certain training scenarios)? How long did she take off from work for maternity leave, and how were her personal bills (rent, HOA fees if any, car payment, utilities, etc.) paid at that time?
- What was KB's work schedule like during the week of Thanksgiving, and the days immediately following Thanksgiving - prior to the November 25th text message to Doss Aviation stating that she would not be at work for a week?
- As a certified flight instructor (and pilot), was KB required by company policy, state regulations, or FAA requirements to receive periodic medical and mental health evaluations? The certification data provided within the KB threads (and externally linked) shows a medical evaluation date in 2016, but were there no more recent ones, such as after childbirth and before returning to work? If so (and I am presuming so because it is generally required by law), when were the last evaluations and were there any anomalies or concerns?
- Where did KB live before buying the East Lake Avenue townhouse, but after moving to Colorado from Idaho/Washington? When in 2016 did she move to Colorado? Did she live in the East Lake Avenue property before purchasing it?
- Why does KB's pilot/instructor certification have an address, albeit a post office box, in Florissant, Colorado? <modsnip sleuthing family>
- Where and how did KB and PF meet? (It has been mentioned on these KB threads that KB "moved with [PF]" to Colorado, <modsnip sleuthing family>, and PF has apparently lived with her the entire time; he has never been mentioned as living anywhere other than in Colorado - so KB and PF did not move, jointly, to Colorado.) Speculation has offered up that they met via an online dating site, but there has been no confirmation of this (aside from, I think, a "verified insider" family member of KB's on these threads stating so).
- KB and PF's child is allegedly 15 months old. Add 9 months for pregnancy, and that equals 24 months (or two years) - and KB has only been living in Colorado for two years. Did she know PF before moving to Colorado (and is this confirmed), or did she move, get pregnant <modsnip not victim friendly>, and then try to make things work (or not) with the father of her as-yet-unborn child? Why did she move to Colorado in the first place? It has been mentioned that she moved there for work AND that she moved there to be closer to him - but which is true, or are they both true?
- KB's home is a townhouse - with attached residences belonging to other people. What have they seen, or not seen, since Thanksgiving 2018? (Other than the neighbor who allegedly saw PF's truck on Thanksgiving.)
- What is the timeline for the texts/calls on November 25th? Specifically, what time did CB contact PF to ask when/if he had spoken to KB? What time did Doss Aviation receive a text stating that KB would not be at work for the rest of the week? What time did PF's phone receive a text from KB's phone?
- What did the text from KB's phone to PF's phone on November 25th say?
- When, where, and at what time on November 22, 2018 did PF and KB meet to exchange their child? (Safeway, his house, her house, parking lot, neutral location, etc.)
- Is November 22, 2018 actually the last time anyone saw KB, including PF? (After all, there is only his word that he met with her to exchange their child.)
- Was KB employed full-time (40 hours a week) at Doss Aviation? Her commute time from Woodland Park to Pueblo would be 61 miles or one hour, approximately, so what were her childcare arrangements while working/commuting? Who watched her baby while she was commuting and working?
- Why was KB not sharing Thanksgiving with PF? Did she not get along with his mother (or vice versa), with whom he was living?
- KB allegedly owns two cars, and both of them were supposedly in her driveway after her disappearance. If she owned two vehicles and only had two assigned parking spaces, as per the realty listing for her townhouse, where did PF park if and when he visited? Were neighbors familiar enough with KB's and PF's vehicles to differentiate between her red truck and his red truck, especially at night or in low visibility situations?
- How often did PF visit KB at her home, if ever?
- <modsnip sleuthing family>
- Does KB have any credit cards or bank accounts, and why has there been no mention - at all - by the media of whether or not those accounts or cards have shown any activity or no activity at all since her disappearance?
- KB's family (meaning her mother, because CB has been almost the exclusive "family" voice) has stated that they really don't know PF very well, so what DO they know about him? And why don't they know more? Wouldn't KB have shared her "joy" at being with someone she was having a child with and planning to marry?
- Since KB's cellular phone pinged in/near Gooding, Idaho on November 25, 2018, have law enforcement agencies collected video from traffic, weather, and Department of Transportation cameras along the major routes from Woodland Park to Gooding to see if any passing vehicles - prior to the ping - appeared to have KB (or PF) as a front seat driver or passenger? Or if a passing vehicle was PF's (or one he had access to, like the white truck from the Waste Management visit), since KB's vehicles allegedly remained at her home the entire time.
- Between November 25 (when he allegedly received a text from KB, contents unknown at this time) and December 2, when KB's mother called to ask about her daughter, did PF attempt to contact KB in any way? If so - what method (text, call, etc.) and how often? Also, if so, why did he not find it strange that she presumably did not return his communication attempt? If not - would he not find it strange that his alleged fiance and mother of his child was incommunicado for a full week, and isn't it strange that he himself did not attempt to contact said person for a full week?
- Because KB and PF did not live together and were "exchanging custody" of their baby, what were their pre-existing or prior-to-disappearance arrangements with regard to co-parenting, exchanging the child, visitation or custody, and so on? In other words, who had the kid at what times and for how long each time?
- Why is PF's "only had an hour's notice" excuse for not attending the press conference being accepted as reasonable? (Especially considering that the conference was actually announced the DAY before, not an HOUR before.) His home location in Florissant is only 20 minutes from Woodland Park, and under "normal" circumstances, the loved ones of a missing person will do whatever is necessary - even attending a press conference looking disheveled, unkempt, and still in their pajamas - to try to find their missing loved one. Unless he was physically more than an hour away from the press conference location, his excuse is (IMO) inexcusable.
- KB's family (her mother and a family member via social media forums) has stated that KB had mentioned plans to have dinner with PF on Thanksgiving, but PF has made no mention of this via his statements through his various attorneys - so what is true? Also, if KB was planning to have dinner with "someone" - perhaps it was NOT PF and she just told her mother (and possibly the other family member) that it was PF because she didn't want them to start murmuring about how she just had a baby with her supposed fiance and now she is possibly becoming involved with another man. Does "another man" ever come into play?
- How many times did CB attempt to contact KB by phone prior to December 2nd? CB's last known contact with KB was November 22 (two phone calls), and if they were close to each other, as has been heavily implied, why would CB have waited ten days to attempt contact? If she did try several times over that ten day period, why wait until December 2 to request a welfare check?
- According to the mainstream media, KB and her brother CB spoke to each other "several times" every week, so why did the brother or his domestic partner, BK, not contact CB (mother) or PF earlier than December 2 to find out why KB had not been in touch or returning calls/texts? When was the last time KB and her brother or his domestic partner had communication with each other verbally (via phone call) and via text messages?
- What did KB purchase at Safeway on November 22nd? (Surveillance cameras also cover cash registers and would show her purchases, as well as what payment method - cash, credit - she used.)
- Law enforcement collected PF's DNA for whatever reason - perhaps to confirm or exclude his presence at KB's townhouse. If so - was his DNA found at her home, and where? If not - was there unknown DNA found in her townhouse, and where?
- CB has stated she hasn't seen KB and PF's child and CB's grandchild) yet. Does she mean she hasn't seen the child since KB disappeared, or hasn't seen the child since it was born? <modsnip not victim friendly> Has her inability to see her grandchild been because of logistics or discord?
- KB appeared to be well-liked at her current job and has social media ties to some of the people she tutored for flight lessons (she provided lessons to aspiring military personnel, according to one report) - so what has she told them via casual or detailed conversations about her relationship with PF? (People always say something, unless they are just social hermits.)
- Where, exactly, were the cinnamon rolls? Were they on the counter, in the oven, on a cooling rack, etc? Were they already made or prepared and not yet baked? Were they store-bought (already cooked, just needed re-heating) or made-from-scratch?
- There has been NO ONE at all to come forward and claim to be a "friend" of KB's and provide information - even about her personality, work or personal habits, socializing, etc. - so why not? <modsnip not victim friendly>
- What were PF's movements during the weekend immediately following Thanksgiving, and then during the seven day period after KB's phone sent a text to his phone? The only person he appears close to is his mother, with whom he lives on a 35 acre cattle ranch, so who would know - or how would it be found out and verified - where he went, how long he was gone, and so forth?
- How would KB's brother, who lives in another state, know what items were or were not missing from KB's townhouse? She could have had clothing, luggage, make-up, and dozens of other items that were missing and no one would know unless they were regular visitors to her home or were extremely close to her and knew what she did and didn't own.
- The $25,000 reward in KB's case was put forward by an "anonymous donor." While I realize you don't know who someone is when they are anonymous, who is this donor? Did one single donor contribute the entire amount? <modsnip not victim friendly>
- When PF made his trip to Waste Management, he was accompanied by at least two other people who were driving two separate vehicles - who were these people and what is their relationship/connection with PF? Law enforcement officers collected at least some of the discarded items at Waste Management - why? What were the contents of the bags/containers/boxes they collected, and how does it pertain to KB or this case? Who owns the white pickup truck that PF drove to the facility? Has THAT vehicle (or any horse/cattle trailers on PF's mother's property) been checked for KB's DNA, or searched for on traffic/DOT cameras between Woodland Park and Gooding?
- Law enforcement has said that evidence has been recovered from KB's home that leads them to believe "the crime" occurred at her residence, but they have not specifically stated that "the crime" means "her murder." What crime, then? Abduction? Incapacity? Murder? What evidence has been recovered?
- Does anyone else find it odd that there are relatively few photographs of KB? Wouldn't a 29 year old female who is the beloved daughter and sister of family members have had numerous photos taken of her doing various things over the course of her life? Has PF offered up any photos - or were any found on his cell phone - of his alleged fiance? It seems like the few pictures available of Kelsey are the same ones over and over (and several with different poses were obviously taken at the same time because her daughter is in the shots and the pink bow in her hair is visible).
The most noteworthy of the comments would be to the person that said (in a previous thread on this matter) that KB would not wear jewelry (an engagement ring) because it was against her religion - there are photos of her with earrings, so she obviously was not opposed to jewelry.
The second comment would be to the family member of KB's who said that she (KB) believed in God and would therefore not commit suicide. Plenty of people who believe in God have committed suicide. Belief does not subjugate personal sorrow, and when a person reaches a point where they are simply done - whether anyone knows it or not - belief will not keep them from taking a final step toward oblivion.
Thank you.
.
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tmar
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When that happens, we'll be very busy with our theories in understanding the new charges, having them incorporated into PF's actions.
MOO.
Trudie
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Standard protocol. Remember, one purpose of pretrial incarceration is to keep the suspect alive to face charges.
Suicide prevention does not always work. Remember the CL killer? He convinced jail staff he was not suicidal. Then committed suicide. Ryan Brunn, ( I think this is correct name), the Mtc. man at GA apt complex killed a little girl, discarding her in the trash compactor, was also able to convince authorities he was not suicidal. GBI actually drove him to the prison facility that houses new inmates. GBI chatted with him extensively during the drive. They intended to follow him, keep in touch with him thru out his LWOP. They wanted to use him for research!!! First night, he hanged himself with the drawstring from the hooded sweatshirt GA DOC provided him.
If PF blatantly tells the counselor or staff “I am not speaking with you”, there’s absolutely nothing anyone can do.
The DA’s Office (People’s Response) has responded to Defendant Frazee’s Motion to limit pre-trial publicity. The DA alleges/argues that Def has not shown sufficient evidence/reason for the Court to grant this Motion and, furthermore, the DA argues that there is no need for a hearing (before the Court) on this Motion/Request.
This does not mean that the Motion has been denied, just that the DA’s Office opposes it. The Court will need to decide if the Motion (filed by the Def) has merit and should be granted. I read somewhere in these posts that the Def’s Motion was denied, but it has not been. The Court has not yet ruled (that I have seen).
IMO
heartgoesout
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heartgoesout
Verified can just be typed in here.
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Right! Sioux if you’re not a lawyer you should be.
tmar
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LucyOso
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All I suggested is this is an angle his attorney might pull out of the hat. And how it could have impacted our victim in life.
My thoughts are is Kelsey, the victim in this case, she got way more than she signed up for. She deserved better. That she might have been struggling and trying to be brave and strong for a long time due to this. That she was silently suffering and trying to empower herself. That she was failing to present reality and intelligence to this guy who might have not had the capacity to work with her in a meaningful way. My heart goes out to her.
Guys, I’m not sure why my suggestions or thoughts are such an issue. Webslueths has changed so much and we used to be able to contribute and discuss cases on multiple levels, from multiple lenses, and disciplines to connect with our victims. Happy holidays.
Irmese
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I disagree. There are major differences in the way the suspects acted and the way LE and MSM. responded to that. CW got in front of MSM and PF has avoided them. CW talked and talked and finally confessed. PF lawyered up and has only spoken through his attorney. CW killed his pregnant wife and two daughters. PF "only" killed his fiancée. MSM had a lot of information to disperse with CW, everything from statements from family members, his wife's friends and their neighbors. With PF there has been very little made public, in fact very little is known about either of them. JMO, but I don't see how PF is a victim of CW.
bestill
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My thoughts exactly or at least a paralegal.
Trudie
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There seems to be no deterrent for these types of crimes. Imprisonment & the DP are not. Once these guys are hell bent on killing, it’s as if their mind can think of nothing else, including consequences. I posted a few threads back, IMO, some (not all) of these guys go on to not have it so bad in prison despite what we think. Very few murders/ suicides occur in prisons considering the number incarcerated.
katydid23
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They might not want the public to see something in that portion of the footage. Maybe it is part of their ongoing investigation that they want to be secret, for now.
Irmese
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A possible head injury.
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