CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #16 *ARREST*

[TexLil]

And if the police informed me that there was going to be a news conference in an hour to publicize my lover's disappearance for 10 days, I would drop everything and attend.

Because you would be innocent MOO

 

[Trudie]

I know, but if they have footage of her entering the store, where is the footage of her leaving? I would think they would have released both?

Idk. I assumed because the footage of her in the store was still available & outside footage might rewind sooner. Inside, due to shoplifting, employee theft & personal injury claims, maybe they preserve it longer.
Maybe the exchange did take place in the parking lot & LE asked it be withheld as to not tip-off PF. Find out if he was going to lie at the onset. Idk any other conceivable explanations for three dif’ versions of exchange to exist.
If exchange was in lot, is everyone thinking he took the baby to his mom then headed to KB house? If murder was his intent, how could he be sure she would not have guests or be gone?
Sigh. As in every case, we only know what LE allows us to know. That’s it. Nothing more.

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

Does anyone else feel sadness/outrage that whoever else is involved in the murder of KB is going to spend Xmas with their family and friends?

 

[ZsaZsa]

Hi Jazzy, I apologize if it appeared I generalized traumatic brain injury (TBI). I didn’t say ALL head injuries present like this. I also noted these were my thoughts related to this situation with him. Obviously there are degrees of severity, areas impacted, plasticity of the brain, and underlying personality traits. This also goes with mental health, there is no broad presentation. My posts in the past 7 years show I don’t categorize people based on things like this.

In this situation, I could see how this could snowball into murder as he had issues with a TBI. This is based on what I’ve read in MSM and on here and my clinical experience. Also personal experience. We don’t know if this was premeditated, what the soliciting was in relationship too, or if this was cold blooded. We don’t know what happened. It could have been in the moment, and LE is sticking anything the can on him to hold him. Apologies if I didn’t express my ideas more succinctly. Thanks

Or maybe he just has always had a mean streak. There are certainly many reports of him abusing and being vicious with animals to suggest that when something thwarts him, he gets violent.

 

[cluciano63]

I think this is just sloppy jouralism.

All media can be accused of this, imo. They all seem to grab bits of info, bad or good, that was printed early on when a case was developing. Much like the “fact” that LE had been asked to do a welfare check on 11/25 when the only thing we now know happened on 11/25 is the ping and texts. Some here are still believing this happened on 11/25 (welfare check).

 

[Gardener1850]

Anyone know the year, make and model of PF's truck?
Do we know if it was in his name only?

Toyota Tacoma. Not sure of the year-- maybe 2008 or newer?
We don't know if he owns it.
More pics of the truck at this link: Woodland Park police search ranch of Kelsey Berreth's fiance

 

[cluciano63]

Or maybe he just has always had a mean streak. There are certainly many reports of him abusing and being vicious with animals to suggest that when something thwarts him, he gets violent.

Clearly he at least has a bad temper. But that is not relevant to a planned murder. So yeah...he has some bad in him for sure.

 

[jillianelaine]

Hello to everyone and thank you in advance for any tolerance that may need to be tendered my way if I don't get things "just right" when posting. I will try my best.

I have spent the past day and a half reading through all the existing threads on the Kelsey Berreth matter after coming across it in an online news article somewhere. I have numerous questions that either have not been asked, or were asked casually and not answered or discussed further - and if the answers exist, I apologize for being repetitive. Also, I have been keeping track of these "unanswered" questions via an external document, so this is cut-and-paste from there and edited for numbering and redacting purposes (such as changing full names to initials, as appears to be the rule of the boards here).

I know some of these questions have no answers as yet because no one has been forthcoming with information or details that would fill in these blanks (either LE, former employers, friends, relatives, etc.).

The Questions

1. Is it normal, from Doss Aviation's standpoint, for KB to send a text message to her employer informing them of tardiness or absences? The general consensus is that texting is low class when making such notifications, and that most employers harbor intense dislike of that method of information delivery, but there are some for whom impersonal communication is standard.
2. Who specifically at Doss Aviation was the text message regarding her absence sent TO from KB's phone? Was it human resources, the general manager/owner, a co-worker, a friend-from-work, or someone else?
3. What were the contents of the text to Doss Aviation? Did KB's message provide an explanation for her prolonged absence from work? (Sick, vacation, family troubles, etc.) Was there only one text to Doss, or multiple texts? (It has been reported, and previously discussed in prior threads on the KB disappearance, that Doss received "texts" from KB's phone, whereas the alleged fiance, PF, received "a text.")
4. How long had KB been working for Doss Aviation? How did they accommodate her pregnancy? As a flight instructor, at what point in pregnancy did she have to stop working because she could not safely perform all the required duties (such as full stick maneuvering during certain training scenarios)? How long did she take off from work for maternity leave, and how were her personal bills (rent, HOA fees if any, car payment, utilities, etc.) paid at that time?
5. What was KB's work schedule like during the week of Thanksgiving, and the days immediately following Thanksgiving - prior to the November 25th text message to Doss Aviation stating that she would not be at work for a week?
6. As a certified flight instructor (and pilot), was KB required by company policy, state regulations, or FAA requirements to receive periodic medical and mental health evaluations? The certification data provided within the KB threads (and externally linked) shows a medical evaluation date in 2016, but were there no more recent ones, such as after childbirth and before returning to work? If so (and I am presuming so because it is generally required by law), when were the last evaluations and were there any anomalies or concerns?
7. Where did KB live before buying the East Lake Avenue townhouse, but after moving to Colorado from Idaho/Washington? When in 2016 did she move to Colorado? Did she live in the East Lake Avenue property before purchasing it?
8. Why does KB's pilot/instructor certification have an address, albeit a post office box, in Florissant, Colorado? <modsnip sleuthing family>
9. Where and how did KB and PF meet? (It has been mentioned on these KB threads that KB "moved with [PF]" to Colorado, <modsnip sleuthing family>, and PF has apparently lived with her the entire time; he has never been mentioned as living anywhere other than in Colorado - so KB and PF did not move, jointly, to Colorado.) Speculation has offered up that they met via an online dating site, but there has been no confirmation of this (aside from, I think, a "verified insider" family member of KB's on these threads stating so).
10. KB and PF's child is allegedly 15 months old. Add 9 months for pregnancy, and that equals 24 months (or two years) - and KB has only been living in Colorado for two years. Did she know PF before moving to Colorado (and is this confirmed), or did she move, get pregnant <modsnip not victim friendly>, and then try to make things work (or not) with the father of her as-yet-unborn child? Why did she move to Colorado in the first place? It has been mentioned that she moved there for work AND that she moved there to be closer to him - but which is true, or are they both true?
11. KB's home is a townhouse - with attached residences belonging to other people. What have they seen, or not seen, since Thanksgiving 2018? (Other than the neighbor who allegedly saw PF's truck on Thanksgiving.)
12. What is the timeline for the texts/calls on November 25th? Specifically, what time did CB contact PF to ask when/if he had spoken to KB? What time did Doss Aviation receive a text stating that KB would not be at work for the rest of the week? What time did PF's phone receive a text from KB's phone?
13. What did the text from KB's phone to PF's phone on November 25th say?
14. When, where, and at what time on November 22, 2018 did PF and KB meet to exchange their child? (Safeway, his house, her house, parking lot, neutral location, etc.)
15. Is November 22, 2018 actually the last time anyone saw KB, including PF? (After all, there is only his word that he met with her to exchange their child.)
16. Was KB employed full-time (40 hours a week) at Doss Aviation? Her commute time from Woodland Park to Pueblo would be 61 miles or one hour, approximately, so what were her childcare arrangements while working/commuting? Who watched her baby while she was commuting and working?
17. Why was KB not sharing Thanksgiving with PF? Did she not get along with his mother (or vice versa), with whom he was living?
18. KB allegedly owns two cars, and both of them were supposedly in her driveway after her disappearance. If she owned two vehicles and only had two assigned parking spaces, as per the realty listing for her townhouse, where did PF park if and when he visited? Were neighbors familiar enough with KB's and PF's vehicles to differentiate between her red truck and his red truck, especially at night or in low visibility situations?
19. How often did PF visit KB at her home, if ever?
20. <modsnip sleuthing family>
21. Does KB have any credit cards or bank accounts, and why has there been no mention - at all - by the media of whether or not those accounts or cards have shown any activity or no activity at all since her disappearance?
22. KB's family (meaning her mother, because CB has been almost the exclusive "family" voice) has stated that they really don't know PF very well, so what DO they know about him? And why don't they know more? Wouldn't KB have shared her "joy" at being with someone she was having a child with and planning to marry?
23. Since KB's cellular phone pinged in/near Gooding, Idaho on November 25, 2018, have law enforcement agencies collected video from traffic, weather, and Department of Transportation cameras along the major routes from Woodland Park to Gooding to see if any passing vehicles - prior to the ping - appeared to have KB (or PF) as a front seat driver or passenger? Or if a passing vehicle was PF's (or one he had access to, like the white truck from the Waste Management visit), since KB's vehicles allegedly remained at her home the entire time.
24. Between November 25 (when he allegedly received a text from KB, contents unknown at this time) and December 2, when KB's mother called to ask about her daughter, did PF attempt to contact KB in any way? If so - what method (text, call, etc.) and how often? Also, if so, why did he not find it strange that she presumably did not return his communication attempt? If not - would he not find it strange that his alleged fiance and mother of his child was incommunicado for a full week, and isn't it strange that he himself did not attempt to contact said person for a full week?
25. Because KB and PF did not live together and were "exchanging custody" of their baby, what were their pre-existing or prior-to-disappearance arrangements with regard to co-parenting, exchanging the child, visitation or custody, and so on? In other words, who had the kid at what times and for how long each time?
26. Why is PF's "only had an hour's notice" excuse for not attending the press conference being accepted as reasonable? (Especially considering that the conference was actually announced the DAY before, not an HOUR before.) His home location in Florissant is only 20 minutes from Woodland Park, and under "normal" circumstances, the loved ones of a missing person will do whatever is necessary - even attending a press conference looking disheveled, unkempt, and still in their pajamas - to try to find their missing loved one. Unless he was physically more than an hour away from the press conference location, his excuse is (IMO) inexcusable.
27. KB's family (her mother and a family member via social media forums) has stated that KB had mentioned plans to have dinner with PF on Thanksgiving, but PF has made no mention of this via his statements through his various attorneys - so what is true? Also, if KB was planning to have dinner with "someone" - perhaps it was NOT PF and she just told her mother (and possibly the other family member) that it was PF because she didn't want them to start murmuring about how she just had a baby with her supposed fiance and now she is possibly becoming involved with another man. Does "another man" ever come into play?
28. How many times did CB attempt to contact KB by phone prior to December 2nd? CB's last known contact with KB was November 22 (two phone calls), and if they were close to each other, as has been heavily implied, why would CB have waited ten days to attempt contact? If she did try several times over that ten day period, why wait until December 2 to request a welfare check?
29. According to the mainstream media, KB and her brother CB spoke to each other "several times" every week, so why did the brother or his domestic partner, BK, not contact CB (mother) or PF earlier than December 2 to find out why KB had not been in touch or returning calls/texts? When was the last time KB and her brother or his domestic partner had communication with each other verbally (via phone call) and via text messages?
30. What did KB purchase at Safeway on November 22nd? (Surveillance cameras also cover cash registers and would show her purchases, as well as what payment method - cash, credit - she used.)
31. Law enforcement collected PF's DNA for whatever reason - perhaps to confirm or exclude his presence at KB's townhouse. If so - was his DNA found at her home, and where? If not - was there unknown DNA found in her townhouse, and where?
32. CB has stated she hasn't seen KB and PF's child and CB's grandchild) yet. Does she mean she hasn't seen the child since KB disappeared, or hasn't seen the child since it was born? <modsnip not victim friendly> Has her inability to see her grandchild been because of logistics or discord?
33. KB appeared to be well-liked at her current job and has social media ties to some of the people she tutored for flight lessons (she provided lessons to aspiring military personnel, according to one report) - so what has she told them via casual or detailed conversations about her relationship with PF? (People always say something, unless they are just social hermits.)
34. Where, exactly, were the cinnamon rolls? Were they on the counter, in the oven, on a cooling rack, etc? Were they already made or prepared and not yet baked? Were they store-bought (already cooked, just needed re-heating) or made-from-scratch?
35. There has been NO ONE at all to come forward and claim to be a "friend" of KB's and provide information - even about her personality, work or personal habits, socializing, etc. - so why not? <modsnip not victim friendly>
36. What were PF's movements during the weekend immediately following Thanksgiving, and then during the seven day period after KB's phone sent a text to his phone? The only person he appears close to is his mother, with whom he lives on a 35 acre cattle ranch, so who would know - or how would it be found out and verified - where he went, how long he was gone, and so forth?
37. How would KB's brother, who lives in another state, know what items were or were not missing from KB's townhouse? She could have had clothing, luggage, make-up, and dozens of other items that were missing and no one would know unless they were regular visitors to her home or were extremely close to her and knew what she did and didn't own.
38. The $25,000 reward in KB's case was put forward by an "anonymous donor." While I realize you don't know who someone is when they are anonymous, who is this donor? Did one single donor contribute the entire amount? <modsnip not victim friendly>
39. When PF made his trip to Waste Management, he was accompanied by at least two other people who were driving two separate vehicles - who were these people and what is their relationship/connection with PF? Law enforcement officers collected at least some of the discarded items at Waste Management - why? What were the contents of the bags/containers/boxes they collected, and how does it pertain to KB or this case? Who owns the white pickup truck that PF drove to the facility? Has THAT vehicle (or any horse/cattle trailers on PF's mother's property) been checked for KB's DNA, or searched for on traffic/DOT cameras between Woodland Park and Gooding?
40. Law enforcement has said that evidence has been recovered from KB's home that leads them to believe "the crime" occurred at her residence, but they have not specifically stated that "the crime" means "her murder." What crime, then? Abduction? Incapacity? Murder? What evidence has been recovered?
41. Does anyone else find it odd that there are relatively few photographs of KB? Wouldn't a 29 year old female who is the beloved daughter and sister of family members have had numerous photos taken of her doing various things over the course of her life? Has PF offered up any photos - or were any found on his cell phone - of his alleged fiance? It seems like the few pictures available of Kelsey are the same ones over and over (and several with different poses were obviously taken at the same time because her daughter is in the shots and the pink bow in her hair is visible).

Those are just things that have occurred to me as I have been reading through the threads, as well as some comments that aren't questions in and of themselves.

The most noteworthy of the comments would be to the person that said (in a previous thread on this matter) that KB would not wear jewelry (an engagement ring) because it was against her religion - there are photos of her with earrings, so she obviously was not opposed to jewelry.

The second comment would be to the family member of KB's who said that she (KB) believed in God and would therefore not commit suicide. Plenty of people who believe in God have committed suicide. Belief does not subjugate personal sorrow, and when a person reaches a point where they are simply done - whether anyone knows it or not - belief will not keep them from taking a final step toward oblivion.

Thank you.
.

Okay, I'll address part 1 of question 41. I did not find it strange. I think the family wanted to release a few recent photos to help the public identify her, and that is what they did.

 

[heartgoesout]

The report didn't say anything about a brain injury. That part is speculation.

'Patrick is a horseshoer, I heard once he was thumping on the horse "saying this is how you've got to do it," that horse reared up and kicked him right in the forehead, he got a bunch of stitches and his [then] girlfriend hauled him to the hospital to get stitches.'
Neighbors described fiancé of missing Colorado woman as 'quiet' and 'good' | Daily Mail Online

Thanks Pommy! I totally missed that!
Right in the forehead, hooray for that horse.

 

[Jazzy5980]

Hi Jazzy, I apologize if it appeared I generalized traumatic brain injury (TBI). I didn’t say ALL head injuries present like this. I also noted these were my thoughts related to this situation with him. Obviously there are degrees of severity, areas impacted, plasticity of the brain, and underlying personality traits. This also goes with mental health, there is no broad presentation. My posts in the past 7 years show I don’t categorize people based on things like this.

In this situation, I could see how this could snowball into murder as he had issues with a TBI. This is based on what I’ve read in MSM and on here and my clinical experience. Also personal experience. We don’t know if this was premeditated, what the soliciting was in relationship too, or if this was cold blooded. We don’t know what happened. It could have been in the moment, and LE is sticking anything the can on him to hold him. Apologies if I didn’t express my ideas more succinctly. Thanks

No worries; I overreacted. Holiday blessings to you and yours.

 

[ZsaZsa]

You and Warwick7 seem to know something that I have not heard before?

I've never heard that he got kicked by a horse and had traumatic brain injury. Where is that information coming from? It's a lot of speculation, but I don't recall the fact that the speculation is built upon. Thanks in advance for pointing me in the right direction.

A girlfriend took him to the ER where he was sutured. No mention of a head injury per se.

 

[TexLil]

Does anyone else feel sadness/outrage that whoever else is involved in the murder of KB is going to spend Xmas with their family and friends?

I do feel upset that anyone who might have been involved is not YET in jail but I also personally have been very impressed with the way LE has handled this rather complicated and very emotional case. IMO the solicitation person is sharing information that has and will continue to help convict the murderer. I also have confidence that eventually all involved will be convicted and Kelsey will receive the justice she deserves.

 

[ZsaZsa]

It can be standard. Determining if he’s a risk to himself. He’s not talking because I think his attorney has an angle, that’s all. I genuinely think they will use his rodeoing and kick in the head as a way to decrease culpability. Footballers and boxers have CTE and long term effects from concussions and such. They could even have a CAT scan or something. I’m not saying is not horse crap, or crappy excuses, but I think this will play into it.

'Patrick is a horseshoer, I heard once he was thumping on the horse "saying this is how you've got to do it," that horse reared up and kicked him right in the forehead, he got a bunch of stitches and his [then] girlfriend hauled him to the hospital to get stitches.'


She said: 'One time we were at a rodeo in Cripple Creek and he got mad because his horse didn't do good and somebody didn't heel just right to help him get in the money and he got so mad he left out of Cripple Creek Rodeo, flipped his horse trailer with his horse in it and almost killed that horse.

The above quotes tell me there is a history of him being impulsive, easily irritated, and having issues processing his abilities vs his perceptions. While this could just be his personality, again I image having a horse rearup and kick you in the forehead caused a significant concussion if not a head injury. Crap, rolling a tuck can cause an injury. As this is a quote, second hand info, I’m sure they didn’t know all the details and the source might not know all of it. He acts like a head injury in many ways and I say that from a purely clinical perspective. These are my opinions only. Thanks.


Neighbors described fiancé of missing Colorado woman as 'quiet' and 'good' | Daily Mail Online

It tells me he is a vicious bully of longstanding.

 

[cluciano63]

In the case of Christina Morris...they convicted the perp of kidnapping her but he was not charged for her murder, even though her body has been found. I find that strange. And in Heather Elvis’ case, she has not been found, again no murder charge, but kidnapping. Each case seems to be charged differently. Jmo

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

The report didn't say anything about a brain injury. That part is speculation.

'Patrick is a horseshoer, I heard once he was thumping on the horse "saying this is how you've got to do it," that horse reared up and kicked him right in the forehead, he got a bunch of stitches and his [then] girlfriend hauled him to the hospital to get stitches.'
Neighbors described fiancé of missing Colorado woman as 'quiet' and 'good' | Daily Mail Online

Haha If true. The horse showed him how you do it.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Good catch! First time I’ve seen that too, always assumed handoff was somewhere else. Wonder if that’s part of why no release yet of video of her leaving Safeway???

Kelsey Berreth’s Fiancé Patrick Frazee Seeks To Limit Pre-Trial Publicity

This article reads “Berreth was last seen on Thanksgiving Day at Safeway when she handed over the toddler to Frazee..”. Does that imply the exchange of the child was at Safeway? I didn’t know that before.

Welcome to both of you newbies!

Law enforcement has clearly stated that they believe that she was murdered at her apartment.

The article states that she was last seen at Safeway on Thanksgiving day when she went missing. It did not say where she went missing.

 

[LucyOso]

A girlfriend took him to the ER where he was sutured. No mention of a head injury per se.

That is correct, but look at the source. His buddy might not have all the information. As an ER nurse in my past, it’d be a miracle if he didn’t have some type of concussive episode from that kick. And if post-concussion care isn’t followed to a T, you can have lasting issues. And looking at how he is described by people, and that I work with TBI people daily, I can see the markers there that this is a huge possibility. Is it speculative, yes, in a way, but I can use my clinical expertise to evaluate markers suggesting this. I’m not diagnosing, but the markers are there to suggest this..and it’s my own opinion too.

 

[Trudie]

It can be standard. Determining if he’s a risk to himself. He’s not talking because I think his attorney has an angle, that’s all. I genuinely think they will use his rodeoing and kick in the head as a way to decrease culpability. Footballers and boxers have CTE and long term effects from concussions and such. They could even have a CAT scan or something. I’m not saying is not horse crap, or crappy excuses, but I think this will play into it.

'Patrick is a horseshoer, I heard once he was thumping on the horse "saying this is how you've got to do it," that horse reared up and kicked him right in the forehead, he got a bunch of stitches and his [then] girlfriend hauled him to the hospital to get stitches.'


She said: 'One time we were at a rodeo in Cripple Creek and he got mad because his horse didn't do good and somebody didn't heel just right to help him get in the money and he got so mad he left out of Cripple Creek Rodeo, flipped his horse trailer with his horse in it and almost killed that horse.

The above quotes tell me there is a history of him being impulsive, easily irritated, and having issues processing his abilities vs his perceptions. While this could just be his personality, again I image having a horse rearup and kick you in the forehead caused a significant concussion if not a head injury. Crap, rolling a tuck can cause an injury. As this is a quote, second hand info, I’m sure they didn’t know all the details and the source might not know all of it. He acts like a head injury in many ways and I say that from a purely clinical perspective. These are my opinions only. Thanks.


Neighbors described fiancé of missing Colorado woman as 'quiet' and 'good' | Daily Mail Online

Every rodeo or trail ride I’ve ever attended, I can honestly state 95% of the participants treat their animals much dif’ than I. As far as it being abusive behavior, I would not classify it as such. PETA & veterinarians always seem to be in the crowd, as spectators or participants. I’ve seen vets”slug” a horse to get it to stand the preferred way for an exam & I’ve seen “things” at professional trainers to numerous to mention. If you watch a circus horse perform, what do you always see the handler holding? A whip.

 

[wyldcynic]

If he asked someone he knew to kill her, and they refused so he did it himself and told that friend exactly where he did it....if that person went to the police and LE discovered evidence of blood in that spot, is that in itself enough to get a judge to sign off on the charges?

I was thinking along the same lines. Either he did it himself because the person he solicited declined, or that he just lost his cool/patience after asking someone else and did it. Maybe he had proposed a specific strategy and that’s why they didn’t find evidence during initial search. When the other person came forward maybe they told LE what he had suggested and they went back armed with that info, knowing exactly what and where to look.

 

[susiQ]

Does anyone else feel sadness/outrage that whoever else is involved in the murder of KB is going to spend Xmas with their family and friends?

I'm seriously hoping if there is another arrest on the horizon it happens tomorrow morning

And with that, I wish you all a wonderful holiday season. Stay safe! (excluding any perps involved) I know Kelsey's family will be in the forefront of our minds, wishing them comfort and some measure of peace.