CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #18 *ARREST*

[gitana1]

We discussed this the other night - the reason why custody might be more of an issue now than it was when she was, for example, 4 months old. My impression is that Kelsey expected that they would get married and live together. Under that assumption, there would be no need to have a legal custody agreement.

The child was born in October 2017 so, by November 2018, it was probably clearer to Kelsey that marriage was only a possibility, and that she needed to establish a formal custody arrangement. There could be many reasons for this, but quality of day to day care may have been a priority. I can easily see that Kelsey was thinking more seriously about the long term care of her daughter as a single parent and the need to establish a formal agreement for her sake and that of her daughter.

She might have. But to clarify, there's no evidence that she filed anything to establish custody orders.

To me it seems she still thought they were engaged and they were sharing the child back and forth. She may have been starting to suspect things weren't going to move forward but it seems they were still hanging out. At least that's what she told her mom.

And there's nothing yet to suggest there were arguments about the baby. Or the relationship.

 

[Trudie]

Actually, I've seen numerous cases where the kids have been placed with the family of the perp. It has happened repeatedly.

Usually via guardianship cases.

Really? I have never. Not if the opp’ family is alive & sought custody.
Personally, in this case, I don’t believe Mrs. F to be a danger to the child. I think if she had custody, it’d be a most awkward situation for the B’s.

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

Yes, I definitely have some thoughts but want to stay on the correct side of TOS.... time will tell, though...

Exactly. There are some plausible but nefarious scenarios possible when you add up the totality of the picture, but TOS doesn’t seem to allow us to say it first. :-|

 

[oviedo]

She might have. But to clarify, there's no evidence that she filed anything to establish custody orders.

To me it seems she still though guy they were engaged and they were sharing the child back and forth. She may have been starting to suspect things weren't going to move forward but it seems they were still hanging out. At least that's what she told her mom.

And there's nothing yet to suggest there were arguments about the baby. Or the relationship.

I thought I read on prior threads that some with access to lexisnexis looked up the hearing and discovered it was scheduled after Kelsey went missing? I don't think my login is still valid but I will try.

 

[gitana1]

Maybe, but let's look at this more closely.

It seems that a custody hearing was set a month ago (per yesterday's discussion). That would mean that Kelsey had already met with lawyers and had sworn affidavits in support of custody. If she had any dirt about illegal activities, that information would have been in the paperwork, or at the very least provided to her lawyer. Murdering Kelsey after the custody application papers were filed would not prevent information about illegal activities from surfacing. I think it is unlikely that she was murdered to prevent her from revealing any possible illegal activities involving PF.

Thinking more carefully about the dates, she was murdered on Nov 22. Does anyone know the exact date that the custody hearing was booked?

What info came out to suggest the hearing was set a month ago?

That would be a huge deal. But the hearing date follows a pattern of dependency court hearings and it was filed as a JV case which is what dependency court cases are filed as. Plus there was nothing else on the docket to suggest a child support or parentage case had been opened by anyone. (In CO they can also be filed as JV cases but also as DR -domestic- cases).

In most states, within about five days of removal of a child by CPS/DHS, a hearing as to temporary placement is held. The dates seem to match up with that.

What did I miss? (I was busy with the holidays and work).

 

[The Saint]

Maybe, but let's look at this more closely.

It seems that a custody hearing was set a month ago (per yesterday's discussion). That would mean that Kelsey had already met with lawyers and had sworn affidavits in support of custody. If she had any dirt about illegal activities, that information would have been in the paperwork, or at the very least provided to her lawyer. Murdering Kelsey after the custody application papers were filed would not prevent information about illegal activities from surfacing. I think it is unlikely that she was murdered to prevent her from revealing any possible illegal activities involving PF.

Thinking more carefully about the dates, she was murdered on Nov 22. Does anyone know the exact date that the custody hearing was booked?

I thought that Bill Carson cleared that up saying that the custody hearing was called
as an emergency after Kelsey's disappearance. Bill is a divorce atty in CO.

 

[jillianelaine]

It's possible that PF solicited one person who turned him down, so he moved onto another person who went through with the contract hit. The first person could be cooperating with LE and they don't want the contract killer to kill the informer. (I think someone may have already proposed this scenario earlier.)

Interesting! It does seem almost as if there is a group of people somehow tied to all of this and some, or at least one, is talking and the rest are watching and have a lot at stake--and that more arrests will come down. Weird that it seems like there is so much more than just he killed her.

 

[The Saint]

I'm thinking he had two phones and handed over the useless one to LE when he was being so "cooperative." Nothing to even delete. Like "search away!" Meanwhile still keeping possession of the phone where anything incriminating could be found or recovered.

Shades of Nichol Kessinger...

 

[oviedo]

I thought that Bill Carson cleared that up saying that the custody hearing was called
as an emergency after Kelsey's disappearance. Bill is a divorce atty in CO.

Thank you - I did remember seeing that here on WS.

 

[otto]

She might have. But to clarify, there's no evidence that she filed anything to establish custody orders.

To me it seems she still though guy they were engaged and they were sharing the child back and forth. She may have been starting to suspect things weren't going to move forward but it seems they were still hanging out. At least that's what she told her mom.

And there's nothing yet to suggest there were arguments about the baby. Or the relationship.

Yesterday, there were numerous comments about the custody hearing having been scheduled a month ago. I'm curious to learn more about this. Maybe this relates to an application between Kelsey's parents and PF directly after Kelsey disappeared?

I also take into consideration that Kelsey may have been reluctant to share information about her deteriorating personal situation. Her family says that they were still hanging out, getting a Christmas tree together, going out for dinner, but the reality is that he was planning to murder her.

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

I'm sofa king curious. Been following that too, Bestill

Now you’ve gone and made me curious. I don’t FB.

 

[otto]

What info came out to suggest the hearing was set a month ago?

That would be a huge deal. But the hearing date follows a pattern of dependency court hearings and it was filed as a JV case which is what dependency court cases are filed as. Plus there was nothing else on the docket to suggest a child support or parentage case had been opened by anyone. (In CO they can also be filed as JV cases but also as DR -domestic- cases).

In most states, within about five days of removal of a child by CPS/DHS, a hearing as to temporary placement is held. The dates seem to match up with that.

What did I miss? (I was busy with the holidays and work).

Thank you! I'm going to take your word for it.

Yesterday afternoon, as the information about the temporary custody decision was discussed, there were comments that the hearing was booked a month ago and Kelsey's name was or was not included. That is where my questions and confusion comes from.

 

[The Saint]

It could be that the 2 people solicited to commit the murder know each other really well. So, the actual killer could easily find and threaten not only the informer but the informer's family members.

IMO

 

[Elley Mae]

Seems odd that according to PF & friends he was primary caregiver yet when Kelsey was off thansksgiving she wouldn’t want to spend that time w/ K.
Wonder if she knew he was coming over when he arrived. I am not believing the child transfer was planned that day.

 

[gitana1]

I think the State has compelling evidence here otherwise they would not have gotten that arrest warrant. But I also think that the continuing development of the case evidence hasn't proceeded as they had expected. I wonder if whoever this 3rd party that is giving them information is not cooperating as much as they hoped, or if that person maybe doesn't actually have the information that they thought. Or if they maybe have a good idea where the body is, but are having difficulty getting to it. The comment earlier that residence should expect activity in the Woodland Park area is interesting.

I'm wondering if she's at a dump. They had a heck of a time finding Jennifer Blagg's body - 17 days of searching the landfill- and never found her daughter. Two months to find Lori Hacking's remains.

They never found little Jhessye Shockley. (Her mom was convicted of her murder).

 

[Doghairrules]

Understood. My post was in response to how bad the reporting in this case has been. Almost like it's a competition to see who can screw up the news the most... Sorry if that wasn't clear.
MOO Quoted Pommy Mommy....


Sorry @PommyMommy I just jumped in to give the DCFS information. I didn't really read what was before it. I just wanted to add info regarding custody when it refers to DCFS.

On a side note, not just to Pommy Mommy. My own mother was murdered last week, so I'm a bit foggy, but I wanted to share what I know about how DCFS operates especially when one set of parents is unsuitable.

I’m so very sorry for your loss. Sending hugs and prayers your way.

 

[esayer]

I think both of those things were SPECULATION ONLY here on WS.

I definitely read that somewhere not on here.

 

[The Saint]

I wonder if Kelsey's employer , co-workers and students have been out searching for her in their Cessnas or whatever they pilot.

 

[jewels13]

Perhaps Kelsey was actually planning the trip to see her grandmother and her luggage was out being packed up but not finished. That might be how the brother knows it wasn’t gone? Just thinking out loud.

 

[otto]

Seems odd that according to PF & friends he was primary caregiver yet when Kelsey was off thansksgiving she wouldn’t want to spend that time w/ K.
Wonder if she knew he was coming over when he arrived. I am not believing the child transfer was planned that day.

I like that idea. She had just done some baking and was picking up groceries - it always struck me as odd that she was doing regular day to day things moments before her daughter was picked up rather than packing and preparing her daughter for a long visit with PF.

She returned home with groceries at about the same time that the red truck was seen parked at her house. It could have been an unplanned visit that escalated to murder.