CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #18 *ARREST*

[NanZDrew]

I agree with you. It's not that complicated.

The only thing I don't agree with is I don't think there's any way they've got someone else who killed her and is now cooperating who they've not arrested.

No way. They could not allow a murderer to be free even if they were cooperating, IMO.

I have thought possibly they have been arrested but the information has not been made public. Arrest records are public but the arrest may not be in Teller Co.

 

[retiredrickyinCO]

I don't know... I'm just trying to see things through the eye's of the victim with as little known facts that we have regarding the relationship. That, the relationship, is a big factor as to what happened.

We have an intelligent hard working attractive woman who ended up getting pregnant by a deadbeat. It seems he, like many of the people up the hill that I know, live more or less under the radar and don't work a real job job as I call it, where they take out taxes and SS. Many just get by and most of their dealings are in cash or barter of some type. We all know these types but it seems like that area draws more than its share of these type of individuals. I'm guessing she realized she would get virtually nothing from child support so her next best option was to have him care for their child. She was a flight instructor and from what I have heard DOSS only hires high quality instructors. So seeing one another at the other's place could have been just handing Baby K off and getting caught up on the latest with the child.

But what I have a hard time getting my arms around is the way her life was taken. From the sounds of it the evidence points to her being killed at her place so I assume it is blood. He was a good sized man and although I don't know how often he shooed animals I have always been under the impression that being a farrier is very hard work. It would be so easy for him to just choke her without a mess. But again if there was a bunch of anger there he could have went nonlinear with a knife or something. I think that would be the only way (extreme hate) to kill with such passion as with a knife or such. Or, he could of done the unthinkable and choked/incapacitated her in some way and then dismembered her. It is only a guess as in so many of these cases we just get the crumbs until the end. Then it is easy to put the pieces together.

 

[BRRI]

Doesn't this sound like a little too much work for PF? It certainly would be for me.

Yes, for sure. I doubt he was very tech savvy, for one. I think we will see this is very much a "common sense" type of crime. Nothing complex

 

[susiQ]

At least there was a happy ending Too dark?

No happy ending. The youngest son ended up living with his parents and the son that found her took his own life several years later. So very sad. All because he was teed off about division of assets and child support. The "dish" he was involved in was an engineer at work that was promptly transferred after her testimony. I guess it ended well for her as it did not in any way affect her career path.

 

[NanZDrew]

I know there is a lot of talk about PFs family members possibly being part of the problem, but I think it is at least a possibility that his mother felt the wrath of his temper on occasion. It just possibly may have been an elder abuse situation at his own home as well. Just a thought.
IMO

I have thought that, too.

 

[BRRI]

Oh h*ll no! I'm right there with you! The first thing that popped into my mind was his backwards trip through a knot hole look yesterday and I thought......Naaaaahhhh.....

Although, I've worked with some of the very best coders out there, MIT grads, Harvard grads... and you would be surprised at how some of them look, and behave. One of them had so much interest in riding his bicycle that it was just...strange? He didn't race or anything like that... just... rode around town. And loved to talk about it all the time. They mostly all looked disheveled too. I guess so smart that they just don't even care how they look, lol

 

[Concernedmamaof3]

You know, she was very measured when she said "loving." It was before he was a suspect. Possibly this was said to not tip PF off. I think deep down, they did not think this was a good relationship which may be why they bought a place for her to live.

Definitely true. She was being VERY careful with her words. That being said, do you think she lied in her responses? I’m more in the camp she may have omitted, but didn’t outright lie.

We live in a different state as our families and frequently have family visit. Granted we are married, but even when my husband is working part of the trip, we do things all together. If they broke up long ago or even she realized it was over months ago, I would think they would need to do things all together to keep up the appearance of still being engaged and in a relationship. MOO

 

[NanZDrew]

Definitely true. She was being VERY careful with her words. That being said, do you think she lied in her responses? I’m more in the camp she may have omitted, but didn’t outright lie.

We live in a different state as our families and frequently have family visit. Granted we are married, but even when my husband is working part of the trip, we do things all together. If they broke up long ago or even she realized it was over months ago, I would think they would need to do things all together to keep up the appearance of still being engaged and in a relationship. MOO

Perhaps he managed to be out of town while she was there this time. Perhaps "loving" had been in the past. We will probably find out that part of the puzzle eventually.

 

[charminglane]

You know, she was very measured when she said "loving." It was before he was a suspect. Possibly this was said to not tip PF off. I think deep down, they did not think this was a good relationship which may be why they bought a place for her to live.

Not "in love."
"Loving."

 

[Gardener1850]

You know, she was very measured when she said "loving." It was before he was a suspect. Possibly this was said to not tip PF off. I think deep down, they did not think this was a good relationship which may be why they bought a place for her to live.

We don't know that her parents bought her house for her. The house is in KB's name. She pays the taxes and the mortgage according to the assessors office. She only transferred the loan to an LLC associated with her family. Why is it so hard to believe that a 29 year old woman who has a good paying career* would have trouble buying her own home? It is not like this was a mansion. We're talking about a 742 sq ft townhome. A modest home like that would have been easy for KB to qualify for with good credit. There are many reasons she might have transferred it to the LLC. She might have transferred it to make it easier to rent her home out at a future date when she and PF bought their own home together. Or to protect her assets in the event of her untimely death-- she worked as a pilot. MOO.

*Here is an estimate of what flight instructors as Doss Aviation make: https://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pa...t-Instructor-Hourly-Pay-E245186_D_KO14,31.htm

Her house sold for $184,900: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/269-E-Lake-Ave-Woodland-Park-CO-80863/62719652_zpid/

Plug those numbers into a mortgage calculator like this one: How Much House Can I Afford - Home Affordability Calculator | Zillow

By my estimates, she could easily qualify for the house loan on her own even if she had minimal down payment and other modest debts such as a car payment.

MOO.

 

[retiredrickyinCO]

Although, I've worked with some of the very best coders out there, MIT grads, Harvard grads... and you would be surprised at how some of them look, and behave. One of them had so much interest in riding his bicycle that it was just...strange? He didn't race or anything like that... just... rode around town. And loved to talk about it all the time. They mostly all looked disheveled too. I guess so smart that they just don't even care how they look, lol

OT - I completely understand. I retired from what was once the 2nd largest computer manufacturer in the world (behind IBM). Once we got a notice that the VP was coming to pay a visit to our office in Chicago. A VP is big when your company is +150k employees. So our manager asked if we could all wear a tie on Thursday, the day of his visit. So my friend, yes a coder, wore his same jeans, same t-shirt as always with a tie around his waist. Nothing was said as everyone knew he would only have to walk across the street to get a different job. This was in the late 70s. Okay off topic I have been a bad baby.

 

[NanZDrew]

I don't think that

We don't know that her parents bought her house for her. The house is in KB's name. She pays the taxes and the mortgage according to the assessors office. She only transferred the loan to an LLC associated with her family. Why is it so hard to believe that a 29 year old woman who has a good paying career* would have trouble buying her own home? It is not like this was a mansion. We're talking about a 742 sq ft townhome. A modest home like that would have been easy for KB to qualify for with good credit. There are many reasons she might have transferred it to the LLC. She might have transferred it to make it easier to rent her home out at a future date when she and PF bought their own home together. Or to protect her assets in the event of her untimely death-- she worked as a pilot. MOO.

*Here is an estimate of what flight instructors as Doss Aviation make: https://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pa...t-Instructor-Hourly-Pay-E245186_D_KO14,31.htm

Her house sold for $184,900: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/269-E-Lake-Ave-Woodland-Park-CO-80863/62719652_zpid/

Plug those numbers into a mortgage calculator like this one: How Much House Can I Afford - Home Affordability Calculator | Zillow

By my estimates, she could easily qualify for the house loan on her own even if she had minimal down payment and other modest debts such as a car payment.

MOO.

You're certainly jumping to conclusions about what I think! I bought a house on my own. I had read someone else's post that said the mortgage was in their name. My thought was that this was done to protect her interest from PF, not that she did not have the credit nor the financial ability to do it herself.

 

[Gardener1850]

I don't think that

You're certainly jumping to conclusions about what I think! I bought a house on my own. I had read someone else's post that said the mortgage was in their name. My thought was that this was done to protect her interest from PF, not that she did not have the credit nor the financial ability to do it herself.

Ok. Sorry, it wasn't just you, I keep seeing posts that say her parents bought her home for her as if that is a fact. I wanted to be clear that we have no evidence her parents financed her home. Some posters speculated that because they were confused about the LLC transfer and somehow it started to grow legs and be stated as if it were true. Obviously, I lean toward KB being financially independent and stable. She was responsible and a hard worker IMO.

 

[NanZDrew]

Not "in love."
"Loving."

Good point. Yes. There is a difference,

 

[NanZDrew]

Ok. Sorry, it wasn't just you, I keep seeing posts that say her parents bought her home for her as if that is a fact. I wanted to be clear that we have no evidence her parents financed her home. Some posters speculated that because they were confused about the LLC transfer and somehow it started to grow legs and be stated as if it were true. Obviously, I lean toward KB being financially independent and stable. She was responsible and a hard worker IMO.

Now this post I agree with. I think she was responsible, intelligeny, hardworking, and a wonderful mother that also tried to include PF and his family in Baby K's life. I think she had a great role model for what a strong, loving mother looks like in CB,

 

[Gardener1850]

Now this post I agree with. I think she was responsible, intelligeny, hardworking, and a wonderful mother that also tried to include PF and his family in Baby K's life. I think she had a great role model for what a strong, loving mother looks like in CB,

Yes, I agree. And I think IF her parents helped her with her home purchase it was because they were generous and loving parents and perhaps wanted her to be able to save extra for a piece of property with a ranch for her and and PF and Baby K. But we don't have any evidence they bought the house. Just evidence that KB took steps to have the family LLC become the loan holder. That could have been to protect her home in the case of a plane crash. I see her as a responsible and smart person. I really hope she made other smart decisions like having a written Will telling who she wanted taking care of Baby K if both her and PF were unable to. That could help the family get custody of baby K. MOO.

 

[Trudie]

Has P’s alleged animal abuse been verified?

As someone that’s always had horse and herd dogs, I know what it takes to be in control of both. Horses are large, powerful animals. In my experience there’s a huge dif’ in the way I treat my horses compared to men I trail ride with. Just sayin’, I don’t see them slathering their steed with kisses, carrying apples, carrots, radishes & peppermints in their saddle bags and such.

Australian sheps’ & border collies are two dog breeds known for their ability to outsmart their owner. Horribly clever creatures & I've found it imperative to show mine that I am the boss, from early on. If not they get out of hand, quickly. By no means am I abusive & they still get away with way too much. Currently, I have one flipping the ceiling light/fan on & off in hopes I’ll put my tablet down and notice him. Same thing if I’m reading, doing my nails, etc. it’s gotta be all about him. All the time.

 

[BRRI]

OT - I completely understand. I retired from what was once the 2nd largest computer manufacturer in the world (behind IBM). Once we got a notice that the VP was coming to pay a visit to our office in Chicago. A VP is big when your company is +150k employees. So our manager asked if we could all wear a tie on Thursday, the day of his visit. So my friend, yes a coder, wore his same jeans, same t-shirt as always with a tie around his waist. Nothing was said as everyone knew he would only have to walk across the street to get a different job. This was in the late 70s. Okay off topic I have been a bad baby.

It’s not terribly off topic. PF may look a bit disheveled but clearly that’s not necessarily an indicator of intelligence

 

[Trudie]

I agree with you. It's not that complicated.

The only thing I don't agree with is I don't think there's any way they've got someone else who killed her and is now cooperating who they've not arrested.

No way. They could not allow a murderer to be free even if they were cooperating, IMO.

What if an accomplice turned himself in & has some type of immunity agreement? Deferred arrest? No? Lol. Has this not happened in previous cases?
Tysm

I don’t believe there’s an accomplice. I think PF asked a cowboy friend to “off” K, the dude declined, later heard K went missing & contacted LE . OR, LE paid him a visit after finding cellular communications.

 

[BRRI]

Now this post I agree with. I think she was responsible, intelligeny, hardworking, and a wonderful mother that also tried to include PF and his family in Baby K's life. I think she had a great role model for what a strong, loving mother looks like in CB,

And I’ve said it before, if her parents had $185k (or whatever the purchase price) to loan her, why not? Otherwise you are giving the interest on that money to a bank to squander. So, why not give it to your parents? Maybe her parents were re-investing that interest into an account for the baby. It would actually be silly for them NOT to do what they did if they have the money. If you look at a loan amoritization and see what you wind up paying over 30 years including interest, vs purchase price, it is mind blowing. Why give that money to a bank if you don’t have to?