CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #25 *ARREST*

[jaspermac]

In this scenario, how do you think the robbery would come in? The robbery part is what perplexes me. With info we have it seems so unnecessary (no murder is necessary obviously). MOO

Like some others I think he hid in the house while she was at safeway and probably had a phone call that she was on her way from someone. Then he attacked her at home. I think the robbery could play out in a couple of ways. 1. when he solicited someone the plan he made with that person was robbery- so LE knows that is one of his plans and it is a story he could use so they need to put it on the books. So his excuse is it is a robbery gone bad, he just meant to scare her and steal something- what? (not sure, because i don't know if the phone is enough) If it is the phone- why would you want to steal that? I don't think he did want to but his excuse might be she had pics of him and KK on it and was going to use it in a custody battle (weak- yes). How does he explain why she died by accident in the course of robbery? Not sure if he has a weapon he swung it to scare her and it hit her. Not sure I am reaching here. Because I don't think she died by one hit, so hard to say it was an accident when you kept going. The thing is I think the felony murder is really just a way for the DA to cover off all of the possibilities and there isn't going to be any good logical explanation for how it could be an attempted robbery because this is PF's warped mind coming up with it. This is really just an idea and not well thought out on my part.

 

[jaspermac]

Did you say you sat in on the Bernardo trial? That makes you a Canadian girl too.....best not to mess with in the first place sister!

Yup Canadian. I didn't sit in on the Bernardo Trial but Paul Rosen defended my cousin's husband (crocker-little trial). He lost again, but he's a good lawyer.. The interest for me in this case, that is similar, is the elaborate planning and setup that has gone into it, but is ridiculously dumb and transparent.

 

[MyBelle]

I think his melt down was a reaction to him blaming his horse for PF failing to rope “sharp” that night. A lot of drinking goes on at rodeos, tempers flare. The amount he might have won would not been life changing. Moo
I’m sure his income is pretty much all off the books. I recall CB mentioning low cattle prices. IMO, that is a lie PF told KB, possibly.

I have no doubt PF is a liar and it is impossible to know the depth of his lies to KB. Would she want to be married to a guy whose income is "off the books" iow, illegal. I sure wouldn't. Does PF even own the cattle or does his mother?

PF's reaction to losing an event was to blame the horse and then risk its life in a reckless disregard for safety. That isn't a normal adult reaction but is indicative of someone who has an abusive personality and always blames someone else and also displays an inability to take responsibility for his own actions.

JMO

 

[Gardener1850]

I wonder if she never was outside at her duplex. Maybe after work she’d swing by her local store for a snack or some food & go in her house, never meeting anyone. In some ‘hoods there’s a lot of activity with kids roller blading, biking, walking, moms with strollers, etc., maybe her ‘hood is not the same.
As small as her duplex is, I can’t imagine staying inside. That’s just me, though.

She knew at least one neighbor well enough that the neighbor lady gave KB a baby gate for her stairs the week before Thanksgiving. So she must have gotten out of her home to talk to her neighbors from time to time (unless the lady was really nosy and came knocking on KB's door asking if she needed a baby gate without knowing she needed one). But I think KB may not have been home often enough for anyone to worry when they didn't see her outside for X number of days. Plus it was Thanksgiving weekend and many people would have been traveling and busy with their own holiday preparations and family activities. JMO.

 

[GordianKnot]

Lol. I do not know him like some of you must.

I honestly don't think anyone knows PF.

Stating the obvious here, but there is something just way, way "off" about him, IMO.

 

[Trudie]

I honestly don't think anyone knows PF.

Stating the obvious here, but there is something just way, way "off" about him, IMO.

No prob. We are all free to have our opinion. I’m a person that likes facts & I try not to judge a person based on appearances, disability’s & income level.
I’ve seen him (PF) only a few times on TV, heard very few words from him prior to his arrest.
Like 99% of cases, there’s good & bad said about every party to the case.
Moo

 

[moonlessnight]

I would be pretty sure he killed her and took the phone (and purse). The robbery charges would be related to his taking the phone and purse. I can't see how she died as a result of robbery. I can see how robbery occurred as a result of her murder. I can't figure out why their theory hinges on robbery, except for a technicality to make it felony murder.

Like some others I think he hid in the house while she was at safeway and probably had a phone call that she was on her way from someone. Then he attacked her at home. I think the robbery could play out in a couple of ways. 1. when he solicited someone the plan he made with that person was robbery- so LE knows that is one of his plans and it is a story he could use so they need to put it on the books. So his excuse is it is a robbery gone bad, he just meant to scare her and steal something- what? (not sure, because i don't know if the phone is enough) If it is the phone- why would you want to steal that? I don't think he did want to but his excuse might be she had pics of him and KK on it and was going to use it in a custody battle (weak- yes). How does he explain why she died by accident in the course of robbery? Not sure if he has a weapon he swung it to scare her and it hit her. Not sure I am reaching here. Because I don't think she died by one hit, so hard to say it was an accident when you kept going. The thing is I think the felony murder is really just a way for the DA to cover off all of the possibilities and there isn't going to be any good logical explanation for how it could be an attempted robbery because this is PF's warped mind coming up with it. This is really just an idea and not well thought out on my part.

 

[Concernedmamaof3]

Like some others I think he hid in the house while she was at safeway and probably had a phone call that she was on her way from someone. Then he attacked her at home. I think the robbery could play out in a couple of ways. 1. when he solicited someone the plan he made with that person was robbery- so LE knows that is one of his plans and it is a story he could use so they need to put it on the books. So his excuse is it is a robbery gone bad, he just meant to scare her and steal something- what? (not sure, because i don't know if the phone is enough) If it is the phone- why would you want to steal that? I don't think he did want to but his excuse might be she had pics of him and KK on it and was going to use it in a custody battle (weak- yes). How does he explain why she died by accident in the course of robbery? Not sure if he has a weapon he swung it to scare her and it hit her. Not sure I am reaching here. Because I don't think she died by one hit, so hard to say it was an accident when you kept going. The thing is I think the felony murder is really just a way for the DA to cover off all of the possibilities and there isn't going to be any good logical explanation for how it could be an attempted robbery because this is PF's warped mind coming up with it. This is really just an idea and not well thought out on my part.

Can the DA charge something like felony murder to cover bases ofwhat the defense might claim? Or would they need to have stronger evidence that’s what happened?

Everything I’ve tried to think to cover the robbery also seems far fetched. Namely with solicitation charges, how in the world
is it believable for PF to go in there with a robbery being the main focus and she gets killed in that act? The phone and her purse also seem like such a weak excuse for a robbery that would cause a death. Although I was watching Pierce Morgan’s Killer Women show last night and it showed the hiccup girl who was convicted of felony murder. She wasn’t even present for the murder, but brought the guy there knowing he would be robbed. They killed him for $60. So I guess people have killed/been convicted for less.

MOO

 

[MyBelle]

She knew at least one neighbor well enough that the neighbor lady gave KB a baby gate for her stairs the week before Thanksgiving. So she must have gotten out of her home to talk to her neighbors from time to time (unless the lady was really nosy and came knocking on KB's door asking if she needed a baby gate without knowing she needed one). But I think KB may not have been home often enough for anyone to worry when they didn't see her outside for X number of days. Plus it was Thanksgiving weekend and many people would have been traveling and busy with their own holiday preparations and family activities. JMO.

Good points! I believe we will learn just how desperate her family was trying to get in touch with KB after Thanksgiving.....and just how much PF blew off their calls. LE knows by now the call detail from KB's phone record and I think it very unfair to accuse her family of "not being concerned." It's the worst form of victim blaming. JMO

 

[moonlessnight]

I can find nothing by searching "ABC, Sonic, Kelsey Berreth, or the reporter Kathi Mickel". I don't think this is an MSM report.

I really hope it is the not the other woman with the same name who happened to be at Sonic...

Just kidding, sort of, but the reporting has been as bad as I have ever seen in any case since following crimes on WS and that is a lot of cases.

 

[moonlessnight]

agreed. add impulsivity, risk taking, sensation seeking, lack of executive function, and weak connections between the emotional brain centers and the pre frontal cortex. simply put - psychopath.

I have no doubt PF is a liar and it is impossible to know the depth of his lies to KB. Would she want to be married to a guy whose income is "off the books" iow, illegal. I sure wouldn't. Does PF even own the cattle or does his mother?

PF's reaction to losing an event was to blame the horse and then risk its life in a reckless disregard for safety. That isn't a normal adult reaction but is indicative of someone who has an abusive personality and always blames someone else and also displays an inability to take responsibility for his own actions.

JMO

 

[jaspermac]

Can the DA charge something like felony murder to cover bases ofwhat the defense might claim? Or would they need to have stronger evidence that’s what happened?

Everything I’ve tried to think to cover the robbery also seems far fetched. Namely with solicitation charges, how in the world
is it believable for PF to go in there with a robbery being the main focus and she gets killed in that act? The phone and her purse also seem like such a weak excuse for a robbery that would cause a death. Although I was watching Pierce Morgan’s Killer Women show last night and it showed the hiccup girl who was convicted of felony murder. She wasn’t even present for the murder, but brought the guy there knowing he would be robbed. They killed him for $60. So I guess people have killed/been convicted for less.

MOO

For sure they have to have evidence and I am sure they do have evidence that could be explained as first degree- premediatation- solicitation etc and evidence that they could use for felony murder. So when i said covering their bases based on his defense. If they go for first degree and he says no way it was a robbery gone wrong and they haven't charged him for it, i think they could potentially be screwed. JMO

 

[Jethro4WS]

I Viewed it several times on one of the Kelsey Berreth's Facebook discussion groups. It is a KRDO/ABC news report. You have to join the discussion group to see it, Kathi Mickel is the news investigator. I imagine there will be more sources soon. They even showed a picture of the Sonic Restaurant and the owner confirmed they had handed over 6 hours of video. During the weekend, many TV stations are slack in their news coverage.

There was a story about Sonic Saturday night - you can see the posts earlier on this thread or the end of the previous thread. However, since that aired//was posted we haven't found it on their web site, or in an article. No other outlets are reporting it. In that story it was mentioned that KK had lived in Canon City which is demonstrably false. They found a different KK with a different middle name that has lived her entire life in Canon City and never in Idaho. Wrong person. That said, the Sonic information may be true.

I have a feeling that they retracted the video/story and are either going to drop it completely or re-edit it otherwise that KK in Canon City will probably sue the bejesus out of them - and that may happen yet.

 

[jaspermac]

I can find nothing by searching "ABC, Sonic, Kelsey Berreth, or the reporter Kathi Mickel". I don't think this is an MSM report.

I think it was originally, I saw photos of the news cast but it has disappeared and as such I think they took it down because they didn't have all of the sources properly verified and the footage they used may not have been the right footage.

 

[BRRI]

Totally get that, she couldn't have stopped it from happening, but you can still leave some good marks in the seconds- minutes of panic that you have. He may not have cared about her fingernails carrying dna because he had a plan to get rid of the body. But marks on himself- harder. Bruises on your legs- cover that with pants til they are gone. If he wore a face mask and gloves maybe there are no marks...

If he was in the house waiting for her, I think he got her from behind. With an object. He planned far enough in advance that he would have known not to get too close to her, for the very reasons you stated. I really will be surprised if he didn’t use something like a bat, or something that leaves distance between them.

I also go back to LE knowing she is dead. I don’t think they would know that if she was strangled or suffocated. A dog hit on a scent wouldn’t be enough to charge him with murder. Other than him leaving a digital trail, which would be very stupid given his 2 months of planning, I think they had to find something conclusive at her house to know that she’s dead and was killed in the house. Murder weapon, IMO.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I can find nothing by searching "ABC, Sonic, Kelsey Berreth, or the reporter Kathi Mickel". I don't think this is an MSM report.

Go read post #405.

 

[gypsysoul]

I keep reading theories of PF being in the house before Kelsey returned from Safeway. But, if the neighbor's report is correct, he parked behind both her vehicles, blocking her in. She would have had to be home first, for the neighbor's account to be accurate. MOO

 

[tmar]

Possibly. Some people (sadly) just have no time for a social life. A new subdivision in my town requires large front porches on every home. They hope to bring back “neighboring”. Might be a good idea in this day & age.

Having a dog, does the trick here.
I know all my neighbours, and the street kids come over, to help me walk the dog.
Yet other neighbours don't know one another (no dogs).

 

[24Brix]

We have not discussed if she had local gal friends ? I hope surely she had one friend she confided in. Have heard no mention of a best friend anywhere. If it has been discussed I missed it that is for sure.
Edit- grrr

I don’t recall the source, but my understanding is that KB was an SDA. Family interviews I’ve seen make me think she probably kept the faith. I don’t know if she was active in her church in the past, but there is an SDA church in WP only a mile from her home. I hope she found friends and fellowship there if nowhere else.

I don’t believe discussing faith violates WS ToS, but KB’s faith hasn’t really been addressed in any of the posts I’ve read so far. It strikes me that it could have had a profound influence on her attitudes and expectations in a relationship. Attitudes and expectations that PF may have found intolerable. MOO, of course...

http://www.religioustolerance.org/sda2.htm

 

[1mtroyal]

Go read post #405.

Another reporter is Shannon Brinias from News Channel 13 ABC. In relistening to the piece it was not the owner of Sonic but the manager they spoke to.