CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #3

[audge86]

Kelsey worked during the week so her mom might not have worried until the weekend came and she still couldn't get in touch. The weekend before was a holiday so she may have thought Kelsey was just busy. But when another weekend comes and she still hasn't talked to her, then it gets weird.

Hopefully the police have some leads that we just don't know about yet. She was missing for so long before being reported that the investigation must be difficult

 

[Tranquileyes]

The part that I can’t get around in this regard is that her family was told by her she was having dinner with him. We heard it from her mom and a family member on Facebook. Maybe this wasn’t truthful if she didn’t want them to know their relationship wasn’t in a good place.

But if she did have plans to have dinner with him, the handoff seems ridiculous. Maybe he didn’t care about keeping up appearances and was very up front about them exchanging their daughter before he realized she had told her family that they were going to have dinner together. The two scenarios don’t go together in my opinion.

The case, by all accounts, is definitely strange the way information has been conveyed to us thus far. But I'm hopeful there is additional information that we are unaware of that can explain what we have been poring over trying to understand.

 

[LietKynes]

I wish we knew what she bought at Safeway. It might shed some light upon her plans for the next day or two.

Good point !

 

[oviedo]

Mother of missing Colorado mom speaks out on daughter's disappearance
“I can't think of anywhere she's gone where she hasn't told me,” she told NBC’s Joe Fryer. “It's just not in her character to do something, to just take off and be gone."

Berreth said she spoke with her daughter, Kelsey, twice on Thanksgiving. She said her daughter initially just needed a recipe.

“Her voice was fine. It was a normal day for her,” she said.

The couple, who do not live together, have a strong bond, said Cheryl Berreth, who lives in Idaho but has been staying in Colorado during the investigation.

"The relationship has been good. They're loving," she said.

She said she doesn't find the speculation circulating helpful to the case.

"Don't try to figure this out – we've got people trying to do that. Just share the photo There's more important things to be done," she said.

Remember when Mollie Tibbetts Dad was pleading with someone they thought was holding Mollie? and all the time she was already dead. I've often wondered why LE had him say this - did they think it would lead to her abductor/killer? I am wondering if the reason CB says to share Kelsey's picture is to jog someone's memory that they might have seen something after the last known sighting at Safeway?

 

[Elle*Bee]

I am puzzled as to why DNA was requested and obtained. There's no evidence that Kelsey is no longer with us. Maybe an envelope was sent and they do not know who sent it. There was supposed to be a search warrant on Kelsey's house (trailerhouse?) There was also a welfare check. The police supposedly need the owner's permission to enter a house. I think there may be something in this phase of the investigation that is critical. The only reason for wanting DNA is to check it with another DNA. It just seems too early in the investigation to obtain DNA unless they have some DNA they want to match it to.

The Woodland Park Police Department is to provide a liaison between the police and the public. Obviously there are some questions they cannot answer, but they can confirm if they only gave Patrick one hour's notice.

I watch way too much TV and have an overactive imagination, but here are my thoughts:

1) If LE believes Kelsey when missing/taken from home, I'd imagine they'd look for evidence (of a struggle, of obvious cleanup, or just general). Requesting a DNA sample from someone who presumably have regular access to the home (as a fiance might) could be compared to other DNA samples, if any were found. Say, for example, LE finds DNA on an unwashed mug in the sink. If the DNA doesn't match Kelsey's or fiance's, then LE investigates further. All this is hypothetical.

2) Again, hypothetically, perhaps LE wanted the DNA swab (either as protocol or because of suspicion) and casually asked for it while everyone was feeling cooperative. (Before anyone clams up or lawyers up.)

 

[Charlot123]

Sorry I was reading through this thread yesterday, and I feel that I have missed a couple of things.

First, is Kelsey’s car at her house, or has it disappeared as well? The articles mention a purse, and the cinnamon rolls, but not the car? Or did I miss something? And suppose she left the house planning a trip (however it ended) - what about clothes and a valise? Mom might know if some of her clothes are missing, or not. Where is Kelsey’s driver’s license? In the house? Or gone?

Second, “pinging”. I had to Google - QUORA says if the phone is unused, it usually pings every 8 hours if stationary, but if it moves, might be more frequently (from the nearest TV tower?). Each time it is used, it pings again. Do we know if the police can trace its location/pings before the one in ID? And it is hard to believe that it never pinged between CO and that final ping in ID given the time lapse.

It becomes more difficult to trace the phone if it (the phone) is switched off, but there might be technology available to locate it as well.

I would like to know what the previous pings tell us about the trace/route of the phone?

What I want to say is, if the phone is not with a Kelsey, it should have moved to ID by some trajectory. Is it possible to trace it? If it is with her, the story changes - I assume people use cell phones even if they make no calls, navigators are often used, some apps, such as Pandora. Phones have a life these days.

 

[scdiv]

Some excellent points made on every side of this truly bizarre puzzle. It has been pointed out already but with the timeline put out by the WPPD the fact that it was Kelsey’s mother who got the ball rolling on the welfare check, 7 days after any possible last contact and 10 days after any known last contact is the thing that sticks out as the most out of place puzzle piece. I’m fully aware of the almost endless different combination of family dynamics that exist but it really stretches even the most generous of interpretations when it comes to PF not reporting her missing or as far as we know even raising the alarm to anyone in his orbit. If it is indeed fact that PF received a text from KB’s phone on 11/25 then I too am intrigued as to why investigators have withheld the contents of that message. At the very least one would think that the message probably wasn’t your standard get in touch message and that it might contain a clue or two.

That makes me believe that LE wants help in finding the "where" she is, rather than needing outside help with the "who" ??? But wouldn't the who lead to the where ??? This whole case is one big ???

 

[audge86]

I doubt this is why, but thoughts on why Kelsey may have purchased a home alone and not been married yet.

If PF was really struggling financially, bankruptcy may have been in his future. Not marrying or having his name on the house protects her assets if his business was doing poorly.

A family member dated a man who owned a construction company. She would never marry him because it was so boom or bust and she didn't want to jeopardize her finances if his business went under.

 

[itsrak]

"On November 25, three days after the Woodland Park, Colorado, resident disappeared, police say her cellphone pinged near Gooding, Idaho, nearly 600 miles away. That same day, two text messages were apparently sent from the device. One told her employer – Doss Aviation, where she was a flight instructor – she would not be showing up to work the following week. The second message was sent to Frazee."

Well, why will LE tell the world what the TM to the employer said, but not tell the world what the TM to the fiance said???? Why the big secret?

LE will tell you what one TM said, but not the other. Sleuthers, why is that?! Why, why, why...

 

[Madeleine74]

This case is strikingly familiar in terms of trajectory, behavior, things LE is saying/not saying.

It appears this case is following the same pattern as other domestic homicide cases:

• Boyfriend/Fiance/Husband is the last person to see the missing female alive.
• Female disappears but LE is either not called right away or not called at all, and it's someone else who finally calls to report the woman missing some days or weeks later.
• Significant other won't talk to media & says that will take focus off of finding missing person.
• Significant other won't attend any event with female's family.
• Significant other blocks woman's family from seeing child/children.
• Significant other sometimes retains criminal defense attorney.
• Phone pings or texts or other misleading info are part of the situation.
• LE says the public is not in danger (big hint here).
• LE says things like, "no suspect or person of interest has been named." Standard verbiage. It means they believe they know who's involved but they're not saying publicly, and won't until they have to or until there's an arrest.

And, as is usual, the public will *not* be told much and this is by design. The public is not entitled to details of an investigation no matter how much case followers demand it. All work is done to preserve the integrity of a case, protect the case for future litigation, and not give anything away that will make a future criminal indictment and trial compromised. Following a criminal case means understanding you'll get very little information from investigators and you'll learn patience or else be constantly frustrated. That's how it goes.

When the family or LE asks for leads, tips, they're talking about someone actually seeing something themselves, or actually hearing something from someone close to the victim.

 

[alucardsdream]

"On November 25, three days after the Woodland Park, Colorado, resident disappeared, police say her cellphone pinged near Gooding, Idaho, nearly 600 miles away. That same day, two text messages were apparently sent from the device. One told her employer – Doss Aviation, where she was a flight instructor – she would not be showing up to work the following week. The second message was sent to Frazee."

Well, why will LE tell the world what the TM to the employer said, but not tell the world what the TM to the fiance said???? Why the big secret?

This has been bothering me for a couple of days! It almost makes me feel like LE knows that KB is not the person who sent the message, and they're not releasing any information on it because it may be important if they come up with a suspect later and they're able to verify what the message said.

 

[Hatfield]

Sorry I was reading through this thread yesterday, and I feel that I have missed a couple of things.

First, is Kelsey’s car at her house, or has it disappeared as well?

Second, “pinging”. I had to Google - QUORA says if the phone is unused, it usually pings every 8 hours if stationary, but if it moves, might be more frequently (from the nearest TV tower?). Each time it is used, it pings again. Do we know if the police can trace its location/pings before the one in ID? And it is hard to believe that it never pinged between CO and that final ping in ID given the time lapse.

It becomes more difficult to trace the phone if it (the phone) is switched off, but there might be technology available to locate it as well.

I would like to know what the previous pings tell us about the trace/route of the phone?

What I want to say is, if the phone is not with a Kelsey, it should have moved to ID by some trajectory. Is it possible to trace it? If it is with her, the story changes - I assume people use cell phones even if they make no calls, navigators are often used, some apps, such as Pandora. Phones have a life these days.

For the first question it is my understanding that she had two vehicles and both were at her house when LE eventually realized she was missing.

For the phone pings join the club. LOL Very little was provided from LE and the most interesting thing is they mentioned what sounded like a last known ping was in Idaho. LE did not tell us much more about other pings before that. They did tell us there were two final texts. One sent to her employer and one sent to fiance.

BTW I did some research a long time ago on cell phone technology that exists to be able to track a phone while off and one way it can be done is with some purposely installed "Malware" that can be installed onto the phone to make it look like it is off to the user but the phone is really still on which allows it to be tracked. Just an interesting sidenote to share.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Well if the fiancee is not guilty of something he is certainly behaving in a stereotypical guilty way, and IMO that's what the mother is trying to tap dance around. . Ignore the press, ignore a press conference, don't show concern or anguish, hire a lawyer. For what? Why does he need protection?

 

[LietKynes]

This case is strikingly familiar in terms of trajectory, behavior, things LE is saying/not saying.

It appears this case is following the same pattern as other domestic homicide cases:

• Boyfriend/Fiance/Husband is the last person to see the missing female alive.
• Female disappears but LE is either not called right away or not called at all, and it's someone else who finally calls to report the woman missing some days or weeks later.
• Significant other won't talk to media & says that will take focus off of finding missing person.
• Significant other won't attend any event with female's family.
• Significant other blocks woman's family from seeing child/children.
• Significant other sometimes retains criminal defense attorney.
• Phone pings or texts or other misleading info are part of the situation.
• LE says the public is not in danger (big hint here).
• LE says things like, "no suspect or person of interest has been named." Standard verbiage. It means they believe they know who's involved but they're not saying publicly, and won't until they have to or until there's an arrest.

And, as is usual, the public will *not* be told much and this is by design. The public is not entitled to details of an investigation no matter how much case followers demand it. All work is done to preserve the integrity of a case, protect the case for future litigation, and not give anything away that will make a future criminal indictment and trial compromised. Following a criminal case means understanding you'll get very little information from investigators and you'll learn patience or else be constantly frustrated. That's how it goes.

When the family or LE asks for leads, tips, they're talking about someone actually seeing something themselves, or actually hearing something from someone close to the victim.

Emph. Mine

I didn't know Kelsey's family was being prevented from seeing the baby.
How sad , she would be such a comfort in this terrible time.....

 

[moreofless]

"On November 25, three days after the Woodland Park, Colorado, resident disappeared, police say her cellphone pinged near Gooding, Idaho, nearly 600 miles away. That same day, two text messages were apparently sent from the device. One told her employer – Doss Aviation, where she was a flight instructor – she would not be showing up to work the following week. The second message was sent to Frazee."

Well, why will LE tell the world what the TM to the employer said, but not tell the world what the TM to the fiance said???? Why the big secret? A young woman is missing, and there may well be a murderer on the loose...

If the phone "pinged" a tower in Idaho and sent two text messages in the same day, where were the text messages sent from (location)? Is it physically possible to get from the location of the text messages to the location of the "ping" in that amount of time?

 

[Mercedes]

But he (PF) is, along with likely other people. So PF hasn’t been “isolated”. Weird phrasing yes. Almost as if it means less a big deal or something.

I agree with you. Meaning PF is not the only person LE is looking at. I think the lawyer used the word “isolated” intentionally. IMO, when lawyers are speaking to the media on behalf of their client, the choose their words very carefully.

 

[PommyMommy]

Well if the fiancee is not guilty of something he is certainly behaving in a stereotypical guilty way, and IMO that's what the mother is trying to tap dance around. . Ignore the press, ignore a press conference, don't show concern or anguish, hire a lawyer. For what? Why does he need protection?

According to the statement issued by his attorney, it isn't that CF needs protection, but that he does not want to “impede law enforcement’s investigation.”

Um hmm.
MOO

 

[Curiousobserver]

That makes me believe that LE wants help in finding the "where" she is, rather than needing outside help with the "who" ??? But wouldn't the who lead to the where ??? This whole case is one big ???

Yes- it could be as simple as KB told me on thanksgiving she was going away for a few days and then texted me later that she was going away longer than she originally thought and here is the message you can see for yourself. That is why I didn't report her missing... I didn't know she hadn't contacted her mother and there were rolls on the counter and her car was still home and the call was made from Idaho etc...

 

[ZsaZsa]

According to the statement issued by his attorney, it isn't that CF needs protection, but that he does not want to “impede law enforcement’s investigation.”

Um hmm.
MOO

Just by the tone of the LE at the press conference, it seems there is already an adversarial relationship between the fiancee and LE and you never see that when
the fiancee is not involved.

 

[Elle*Bee]

Emph. Mine

I didn't know Kelsey's family was being prevented from seeing the baby.
How sad , she would be such a comfort in this terrible time.....

I'd like to know more about how she's being prevented from seeing the baby. Is it a firm refusal from fiance? A matter of logistics? Included in the post below is a quote in which Kelsey's mother states she hasn't seen the baby yet. Her wording seems to me an attempt not to throw shade on fiance. JMO.

Her mother's response to the questions about seeing her granddaughter are very telling IMO. She's been there how long now, and hasn't seen her grand baby? When she responded to the question of if she hopes to see her with "I don't know, one day at a time" , my first thought was she responded that way because she doesn't know if she will be allowed to see her. Why? It gives off the impression that PF and KB's mother are not working together to find her. JMO.