CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #3

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They haven't mentioned if her car was used. People could at least be on the lookout for it, if that were the case. I'm thinking of that young family that were all found drowned in their overturned car in a creek, they had been missing since setting out for Thanksgiving dinner with family.
 
I agree that something seems very off with the engagement. I have trouble reconciling how the price of cattle matters after hearing Kelsey's mom say, "I don't think she cared about the big wedding kind of thing." If money was not the hold-up, what was?
MOO

The only things I can think of is a lack of commitment or there was abuse. We don't have evidence of the second one yet so I'm going to focus on the 1st possibility for now. It's possible Kelsey really wanted to marry PF at one point in time but he refused to commit. Maybe he hadn't asked her to marry her but always said, "sure someday". Maybe he was still stringing her along with promises and not respecting the boundaries she had put up for the relationship. She probably had wanted them to get married and raise their daughter together. But I have a feeling at some point that changed. Maybe she changed. Maybe she realized he was never going to change. Maybe when she bought her house she thought he would agree to marry her or live there with her and their daughter. Or maybe the house purchase represented her moving on-- telling him that she wasn't waiting around anymore for him to provide a place for her and her baby. She was going to focus on her career and co-parenting Kaylee. I think she tried to keep things civil but it wasn't that way. I think at some point things boiled over. JMO.
 
I know that. But why say "isolated", that means singular? He could have easily said his client is not a person of interest... period.

I agree. Interesting way to phrase it. I don't like the fact that the fiancee is not in front of a camera pleading for her safe return either.

What was their relationship like? They're engaged and have a child together, but live separately. He met up with KB to pick up their child, then didn't communicate with her until he received a text from her three days later?

Frazee did not attend a Monday news conference held by Woodland Park police to ask for the public’s help in locating Berreth. Responding a reporter’s question about why the woman’s fiancé did not attend the news conference, Woodland Park Police Chief Miles de Young replied they would have to ask Frazee.

In his statement, Loew said Frazee did not attend the news conference because he only found out about it an hour before it was held.

"Had he been given more advance notice, he would have participated,” the statement said.


Fiance of missing Kelsey Berreth voluntarily releases cell phone, DNA sample to law enforcement

The reply from LE regarding why PF didn't attend the newser was a chilly one.

I know many on here will have a problem with my suspicion toward him, but it is what it is.
 
They haven't mentioned if her car was used. People could at least be on the lookout for it, if that were the case. I'm thinking of that young family that were all found drowned in their overturned car in a creek, they had been missing since setting out for Thanksgiving dinner with family.

I believe it's been stated that she owned two cars, both of which were at home. I'll look for a link. ETA: found one.

Police Release Video of the Last Time Missing Colorado Mom Was Seen Before She Disappeared

"Her brother, Clint Berreth, wrote on Facebook that the only thing missing was her purse, and that her suitcases, makeup and cars all were still at the home."
 
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Just by the tone of the LE at the press conference, it seems there is already an adversarial relationship between the fiancee and LE and you never see that when
the fiancee is not involved.

The gist of the LE message: “you’ll have to ask him.” Repeated more than once for emphasis. And with long, pregnant pauses when PF’s name was mentioned in conjunction with the investigation. Hardly seems subtle. I thought the message underneath the PR message was quite clear
 
"On November 25, three days after the Woodland Park, Colorado, resident disappeared, police say her cellphone pinged near Gooding, Idaho, nearly 600 miles away. That same day, two text messages were apparently sent from the device. One told her employer – Doss Aviation, where she was a flight instructor – she would not be showing up to work the following week. The second message was sent to Frazee."

Well, why will LE tell the world what the TM to the employer said, but not tell the world what the TM to the fiance said???? Why the big secret?

LE will tell you what one TM said, but not the other. Sleuthers, why is that?! Why, why, why...
I'm sure you are going to get many responses.
These are things LE is keeping close to the vest.
 
I'm curious if she had or was wearing an engagement ring.


I have no idea what to think. The thought it my head is that when she talked to her mother, Kelsey thought she had dinner plans with her fiance and daughter. At some point during the day, perhaps an argument or unknown events, and dinner plans together were abandoned. PF took the child and how that occurred and what happened after that is a mystery to us.

However, I could be easily persuaded on a different scenario because it's all very puzzling to me. I get the distinct feeling there is some important factor that Kelsey's family is trying to keep private that would explain a lot, but they don't believe it has to do with her mental health or that she's willingly staying away from her daughter, and there is a reason they are not sharing. (And LE isn't either.) I do believe Kelsey's family is doing exactly what LE is advising.
I am also wondering if she didn't get along with his mother, which could have caused some strife between them. Going by yesterday's post by what appears to possibly be a family member of his- it seemed like they didn't approve of her having a career. If the entire family or most of the family feels this way, it could very well be that he was torn between Kelsey and his family, most especially his Mom. He also might feel guilty, leaving her alone to live with Kelsey elsewhere, where she is disabled (according to that person who posted yesterday). This can be a tricky situation in any relationship, and perhaps Kelsey ended up doing her own thing- working, buying a home, keeping her independence, and he was caught between the two. Maybe Kelsey had had enough of the mama's boy situation and kept her distance from his family. Then again, I could be way off.

I wonder if LE has plans to search their property yet? He did voluntarily give his phone over and did a DNA test, so he could very well be innocent of anything, other than the fact that he put his family first over her.

I am still trying to understand the cinnamon rolls, and why they are important to this case. It was brought up for a reason, in my opinion. I can't see how any food item on the counter is important unless it tells LE that she had no intentions of leaving on her own. As far as her purse and phone being missing- if there is a perp involved, they could have grabbed those items themselves.

I wonder did she call anyone else besides the fiance and her Mom on Nov 22nd?

I am still wondering if any credit card or debit card of hers has been used since then. That would tell LE a lot.
 
This case is strikingly familiar in terms of trajectory, behavior, things LE is saying/not saying.

It appears this case is following the same pattern as other domestic homicide cases:
  • Boyfriend/Fiance/Husband is the last person to see the missing female alive.
  • Female disappears but LE is either not called right away or not called at all, and it's someone else who finally calls to report the woman missing some days or weeks later.
  • Significant other won't talk to media & says that will take focus off of finding missing person.
  • Significant other won't attend any event with female's family.
  • Significant other blocks woman's family from seeing child/children.
  • Significant other sometimes retains criminal defense attorney.
  • Phone pings or texts or other misleading info are part of the situation.
  • LE says the public is not in danger (big hint here).
  • LE says things like, "no suspect or person of interest has been named." Standard verbiage. It means they believe they know who's involved but they're not saying publicly, and won't until they have to or until there's an arrest.
And, as is usual, the public will *not* be told much and this is by design. The public is not entitled to details of an investigation no matter how much case followers demand it. All work is done to preserve the integrity of a case, protect the case for future litigation, and not give anything away that will make a future criminal indictment and trial compromised. Following a criminal case means understanding you'll get very little information from investigators and you'll learn patience or else be constantly frustrated. That's how it goes.

When the family or LE asks for leads, tips, they're talking about someone actually seeing something themselves, or actually hearing something from someone close to the victim.
Excellent post!
 
The gist of the LE message: “you’ll have to ask him.” Repeated more than once for emphasis. And with long, pregnant pauses when PF’s name was mentioned in conjunction with the investigation. Hardly seems subtle. I thought the message underneath the PR message was quite clear
I wish there was a "great post" button.
 
Some excellent points made on every side of this truly bizarre puzzle. It has been pointed out already but with the timeline put out by the WPPD the fact that it was Kelsey’s mother who got the ball rolling on the welfare check, 7 days after any possible last contact and 10 days after any known last contact is the thing that sticks out as the most out of place puzzle piece. I’m fully aware of the almost endless different combination of family dynamics that exist but it really stretches even the most generous of interpretations when it comes to PF not reporting her missing or as far as we know even raising the alarm to anyone in his orbit. If it is indeed fact that PF received a text from KB’s phone on 11/25 then I too am intrigued as to why investigators have withheld the contents of that message. At the very least one would think that the message probably wasn’t your standard get in touch message and that it might contain a clue or two.
I am more intrigued by the text message to the employer. In order to do that there would have to be a contact in the phone already. But the key is whether that text was sent to a named individual that was either a supervisor or worked in human resources or it was a generic entry like "Doss HR" (or something similar). If it were a specific named person from Kelsey's contacts, whoever sent the text would have to know exactly who that person was in order for the message to go to the right person. That would tell a lot about who sent it if this were the case because how many people outside of Kelsey would know the first and last names of Kelsey's supervisor or HR contact. If it were a generic entry that makes things more wide open.
 
I wonder how close she lived to neighbors. Didn't they notice her cars hadn't moved for all that time and they hadn't seen a sign of her or the baby? Call me a noisy neighbor but I would have noticed and called the police (after I knocked on the door and looked through the windows...lol).

It's a duplex/townhouse so she shares a wall with neighbors. But since it was the week after Thanksgiving neighbors might not have thought much of it or they might have been gone themselves. A lot of people take extra days to travel for Thanksgiving. Plus, she commuted 70 miles for her job and worked long hours/long weeks she probably was not there very often in the daytime to see her neighbors. JMO.
 
I am puzzled as to why DNA was requested and obtained. There's no evidence that Kelsey is no longer with us. Maybe an envelope was sent and they do not know who sent it. There was supposed to be a search warrant on Kelsey's house (trailerhouse?) There was also a welfare check. The police supposedly need the owner's permission to enter a house. I think there may be something in this phase of the investigation that is critical. The only reason for wanting DNA is to check it with another DNA. It just seems too early in the investigation to obtain DNA unless they have some DNA they want to match it to.

The Woodland Park Police Department is to provide a liaison between the police and the public. Obviously there are some questions they cannot answer, but they can confirm if they only gave Patrick one hour's notice.
Theoretically, if things are as portrayed by Kelsey's mother, I would expect that finding PF's DNA in Kelsey's house, car, etc. would not be something that would stand out. It would be indicative of nothing.
 
For the first question it is my understanding that she had two vehicles and both were at her house when LE eventually realized she was missing.

For the phone pings join the club. LOL :) Very little was provided from LE and the most interesting thing is they mentioned what sounded like a last known ping was in Idaho. LE did not tell us much more about other pings before that. They did tell us there were two final texts. One sent to her employer and one sent to fiance.

BTW I did some research a long time ago on cell phone technology that exists to be able to track a phone while off and one way it can be done is with some purposely installed "Malware" that can be installed onto the phone to make it look like it is off to the user but the phone is really still on which allows it to be tracked. Just an interesting sidenote to share.

Yes I know about malware. One sign that it has been on one’s phone - shorter battery use.

But the pings? They should show some track, right? And one can easily cover 600 miles in 3 days esp. if he stays on the main roads. So there probably would be ways to check TV towers close to them? If someone switches the phone off and then on (in a hotel or wherever people sleep) this will be registered. Last, people use free WiFi offered by many places. This, too.

Her mom’s phrase “she loves her God” sounds like a plea, or a reminder. (Because in general, taking off and cutting communication with the family does not mean stoppping to love the God. God is the least stationary entity). So it is either “Kelsey, you love your God, go home”, or a message about ungodly act to someone else? Anyone sees some peculiarity in it?
 
I believe her brother is in a same-sex marriage and the BIL is his spouse.

I really hope we get an interview with her brother. I have only seen the brother-in-law speak so far. I have a feeling her brother knows a lot more about the dynamics of Kelsey's relationship with PF. JMO.
 
I am more intrigued by the text message to the employer. In order to do that there would have to be a contact in the phone already. But the key is whether that text was sent to a named individual that was either a supervisor or worked in human resources or it was a generic entry like "Doss HR" (or something similar). If it were a specific named person from Kelsey's contacts, whoever sent the text would have to know exactly who that person was in order for the message to go to the right person. That would tell a lot about who sent it if this were the case because how many people outside of Kelsey would know the first and last names of Kelsey's supervisor or HR contact. If it were a generic entry that makes things more wide open.
The circle of people who knew that is small and one of them took a trip to Idaho recently. Normally I am in the camp of the LE should release everything they have to help find someone but in this case I think they have a lot of threads left to pull on before this is a cold case.
 
Kelsey worked during the week so her mom might not have worried until the weekend came and she still couldn't get in touch. The weekend before was a holiday so she may have thought Kelsey was just busy. But when another weekend comes and she still hasn't talked to her, then it gets weird.

Hopefully the police have some leads that we just don't know about yet. She was missing for so long before being reported that the investigation must be difficult
Personally, I feel for LE in this case. As you said, she was missing for a long time before being reported missing. With all that time passing, if some perp does have her, he/she had plenty of time to do whatever they wanted with her, including the worst and hiding her somewhere in Idaho, for all we know.

I still don't understand why the fiance did not either call her mother or LE to say that Kelsey hasn't been around. You have to figure that she normally took the baby back home with her on a certain schedule that they had worked out, right? No red flags to him that she didn't return? No concern that something wasn't right? No concern that she didn't pick the baby up at her normal scheduled switch?

I don't see this woman just up and leaving her little one like this, without telling someone. A family member, a best friend, a co-worker. I know it can happen and we could all be very shocked when she turns up fine somewhere in a month or so, but I just don't feel that she would worry her family like this.
 
I am more intrigued by the text message to the employer. In order to do that there would have to be a contact in the phone already. But the key is whether that text was sent to a named individual that was either a supervisor or worked in human resources or it was a generic entry like "Doss HR" (or something similar). If it were a specific named person from Kelsey's contacts, whoever sent the text would have to know exactly who that person was in order for the message to go to the right person. That would tell a lot about who sent it if this were the case because how many people outside of Kelsey would know the first and last names of Kelsey's supervisor or HR contact. If it were a generic entry that makes things more wide open.

Good points. Something else LE is holding on to, and maybe for a good reason. Or at least I hope.
 
I agree. Interesting way to phrase it. I don't like the fact that the fiancee is not in front of a camera pleading for her safe return either.

What was their relationship like? They're engaged and have a child together, but live separately. He met up with KB to pick up their child, then didn't communicate with her until he received a text from her three days later?

Frazee did not attend a Monday news conference held by Woodland Park police to ask for the public’s help in locating Berreth. Responding a reporter’s question about why the woman’s fiancé did not attend the news conference, Woodland Park Police Chief Miles de Young replied they would have to ask Frazee.

In his statement, Loew said Frazee did not attend the news conference because he only found out about it an hour before it was held.

"Had he been given more advance notice, he would have participated,” the statement said.


Fiance of missing Kelsey Berreth voluntarily releases cell phone, DNA sample to law enforcement

The reply from LE regarding why PF didn't attend the newser was a chilly one.

I know many on here will have a problem with my suspicion toward him, but it is what it is.
And I want to say someone posted yesterday that the press conf. was announced 24 hours in advance, not one hour.
 
Just going to put this out there....
Neither LE nor anyone else could keep me away from a presser if my dear one went missing.
I wouldn't say that I only had an hour's notice.
I would already be there. I'd be pestering and begging LE, the media, his family, or anyone who would listen !!!
They'd have to drag me away to get me to stop asking for help.

Even years back when dating my bf (who eventually became my husband) --if he'd gone missing... I'd want him found as he was important to me, and especially to his own family !

I don't understand this behavior from Kelsey's fiance'.
Fiance' infers more than just dating, it'd mean he'd proposed and was planning for them to have a life together.
 
I am more intrigued by the text message to the employer. In order to do that there would have to be a contact in the phone already. But the key is whether that text was sent to a named individual that was either a supervisor or worked in human resources or it was a generic entry like "Doss HR" (or something similar). If it were a specific named person from Kelsey's contacts, whoever sent the text would have to know exactly who that person was in order for the message to go to the right person. That would tell a lot about who sent it if this were the case because how many people outside of Kelsey would know the first and last names of Kelsey's supervisor or HR contact. If it were a generic entry that makes things more wide open.

I use work 1, work 2 and work 3... puts them right together in the contacts.
 
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