CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #33 *ARREST*

[gliving]

Okay, so you see a logistical issue rising. Thanks for your reply.

JUST MY OPINION FOLLOWS:

I think the case against PF has a big hole in the middle, like a donut hole. No doubt LE thinks he is responsible for the presumed murder of KB, but the two different murder charges were filed based on two different theories of the crime. Add the preemptive wrongful death suit by the B's, and the overall impression is that LE is having a hard time nailing PF specifically. I think he has an airtight alibi, too - he picked up Baby K and likely was thereafter all weekend in the company of others, likely F family & friends Thanksgiving activities. PF received a text Sunday 11/25 from KB's phone. These are the only facts we really have.

Enter KK per the R's interview. She is the worst sort of witness. The Defense would start by exposing any immunity or deal she got and implying she is lying to save herself. Then the Defense will back off, be more friendly asking about her rodeo queen days, nursing school, marriage and kids... then her divorce after only 6 years. If anything in the divorce would be detrimental to KK's character or veracity, the Defense will go at her like a pit bull to the jugular. Then comes the issues about her relationship with PF - romance? adultery while she was married? carrying a torch for PF since HS? cheating with an engaged man with baby? The Defense will ultimately accuse her of murdering KB for her own motives, jealousy, scorned woman. When the Defense is done with KK, the Prosecution will have a hard time rehabilitating their necessary star witness, the damage will be done. Then the Defense will call witnesses to refute KK's statements about her relationship and public interactions with PF, making KK look even worse, and undermining her testimony. KK is a witness who cannot tell the truth because it condems her, she cannot lie because it will all be uncovered, and there is no case against PF if she takes the 5th.

As you note, the Defense only need plant reasonable doubt in the mind of ONE juror, and KK, who according to the R's had the phone in Idaho and sent the texts, is that seed that will blossom into a whole tree. I don't think KK had a mandatory reporter issue as an RN re: what KK claims PF said about "KB was unstable and might harm the baby" - (myself I don't think PF ever said that; I think KK and BFF/M made that up) - but she looks morally bankrupt in the entire matter and like she has her own motive.

As it is, hung jury. We'll see more evidence ... some day ... hopefully it will be clarifying.

THE PRECEDING IS JUST MY OPINION, MORE LIKE A THEORY, AND NOT FACTS. JMO MOO IMO

I agree SandyQLS. February 19 can't come soon enough. I need to hear the evidence.

 

[Kapua]

What? We have a deceased female and an arrested suspect with a known associate with the victim's phone that took at least one trip. These are the facts of the case.

And the phone that took a trip texted the suspect. Aside from that, you have a suspect who didn't report the victim missing after no contact for a week, although she is the mother of their infant child. I find it difficult to believe that any juror wouldn't find that extremely suspicious. MOO

 

[ajaylee]

We don't have proof that PF actually murdered her. As far as I can tell, we don't actually know where he was at all times on Thanksgiving Day after KB was seen at the market.

(Law enforcement may have evidence that we don't know about yet).

Defense could float the suggestion that he is guilty of nothing more (!) than helping clean up. He could claim that KB was already dead when he arrived and that he was only involved in keeping his mouth shut. He could hint that KK did the deed.

Question for everyone: is it your gut impression that PF's mom is calling the shots in their relationship or is he calling the shots?

 

[Love Never Fails]

Dave F,

You say to “...remember...”

I say, “How can I remember that which I never knew?”

To explain, the burden of proof in a criminal trial is

“beyond a reasonable doubt.” Mostly that is

interpreted as 99%.

In other words, the D.A. must prove, to a jury, that PF

is guilty of murder beyond a reasonable doubt. The burden

of proof is on the D.A. The defendant is presumed to be

innocent. However, if the D.A. presents a compelling

case, the defense will want to create reasonable doubt to

thwart the D.A.’s burden.

“Beyond a Shadow of a Doubt” is movie and television

legal vernacular.

So you are agreeing with Dave and only using different terminology right? You say the DA has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that PF committed these crimes? Dave is saying the defense only has to create doubt in one jurors mind to get a hung jury or to get the jury to acquit him? Sounds as if both of you are saying this will be a tough case for the prosecution to win based on what we know today (assuming we know anything).

Just asking because I am a little confused. I cannot imagine PF being arrested and charged without solid evidence. But I guess that could happen. Wow...I hope not. You don’t take away a mans freedom based on a hunch.

 

[InvSmith]

Okay, so you see a logistical issue rising. Thanks for your reply.

JUST MY OPINION FOLLOWS:

I think the case against PF has a big hole in the middle, like a donut hole. No doubt LE thinks he is responsible for the presumed murder of KB, but the two different murder charges were filed based on two different theories of the crime. Add the preemptive wrongful death suit by the B's, and the overall impression is that LE is having a hard time nailing PF specifically. I think he has an airtight alibi, too - he picked up Baby K and likely was thereafter all weekend in the company of others, likely F family & friends Thanksgiving activities. PF received a text Sunday 11/25 from KB's phone. These are the only facts we really have.

Enter KK per the R's interview. She is the worst sort of witness. The Defense would start by exposing any immunity or deal she got and implying she is lying to save herself. Then the Defense will back off, be more friendly asking about her rodeo queen days, nursing school, marriage and kids... then her divorce after only 6 years. If anything in the divorce would be detrimental to KK's character or veracity, the Defense will go at her like a pit bull to the jugular. Then comes the issues about her relationship with PF - romance? adultery while she was married? carrying a torch for PF since HS? cheating with an engaged man with baby? The Defense will ultimately accuse her of murdering KB for her own motives, jealousy, scorned woman. When the Defense is done with KK, the Prosecution will have a hard time rehabilitating their necessary star witness, the damage will be done. Then the Defense will call witnesses to refute KK's statements about her relationship and public interactions with PF, making KK look even worse, and undermining her testimony. KK is a witness who cannot tell the truth because it condems her, she cannot lie because it will all be uncovered, and there is no case against PF if she takes the 5th.

As you note, the Defense only need plant reasonable doubt in the mind of ONE juror, and KK, who according to the R's had the phone in Idaho and sent the texts, is that seed that will blossom into a whole tree. I don't think KK had a mandatory reporter issue as an RN re: what KK claims PF said about "KB was unstable and might harm the baby" - (myself I don't think PF ever said that; I think KK and BFF/M made that up) - but she looks morally bankrupt in the entire matter and like she has her own motive.

As it is, hung jury. We'll see more evidence ... some day ... hopefully it will be clarifying.

THE PRECEDING IS JUST MY OPINION, MORE LIKE A THEORY, AND NOT FACTS. JMO MOO IMO

The hole in the case is that he obviously solicited this person in an attempt to create a reasonable doubt scenario. The electronic trail will demonstrate this. His motive to benefit (whatever that is) is stronger than hers seeing he is the solicitor. I don't think that KL will be presented as a witness but as a manipulated abused victim. This should concern the defense. For as much as one abused female is not alive, we potentially have one that is and one KB friend also to testify.

 

[Gardener1850]

Where are we getting the info that KB lived in Grand Junction? I did not see that info in this video nor the article: Kelsey Berreth's friend believes her fiancé was "borderline emotionally abusive"
It only says KB lived with her friend AC in Colorado while KB was pregnant and working as a flight instructor nearby.

We know KB previously rented a condo in the same complex in Woodland Park as where she bought. Logically, it seems KB and AC might have been roommates in the rental condo in Woodland Park while KB was pregnant. We have never nailed down the address KB lived at before her purchase of 269 E Lake Ave, but that makes sense the address would not show up, since she was renting and it was fairly recent. Rental addresses don't always show up in public record (especially if you use a PO Box for all your mail and bills). MOO.

 

[Kapua]

We don't have proof that PF actually murdered her. As far as I can tell, we don't actually know where he was at all times on Thanksgiving Day after KB was seen at the market.

(Law enforcement may have evidence that we don't know about yet).

Defense could float the suggestion that he is guilty of nothing more (!) than helping clean up. He could claim that KB was already dead when he arrived and that he was only involved in keeping his mouth shut. He could hint that KK did the deed.

Question for everyone: is it your gut impression that PF's mom is calling the shots in their relationship or is he calling the shots?

IMHO, LE has a LOT of evidence that we don't know about yet. I say this because usually LE likes to have a body to prosecute a murder case, and this time they brought charges within three weeks with no body. That is extremely unusual. (BTW, any news about the landfill search?)
PF is calling the shots in his relationship(s). He doesn't like to get too close or be tied down. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

I don’t think there is a “big hole” in this case.

I simply think there is a big gap in what we know. Just because we don’t know specific details, doesn’t mean that the prosecution and investigators don’t.

Two different theories as to how this crime happened, isn’t a big deal. In plenty of cases the motive is not apparent, or is in dispute.

I don’t think that will be the case here.

I think the case is strong.

 

[Dave F.]

So you are agreeing with Dave and only using different terminology right? You say the DA has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that PF committed these crimes? Dave is saying the defense only has to create doubt in one jurors mind to get a hung jury or to get the jury to acquit him? Sounds as if both of you are saying this will be a tough case for the prosecution to win based on what we know today (assuming we know anything).

Just asking because I am a little confused. I cannot imagine PF being arrested and charged without solid evidence. But I guess that could happen. Wow...I hope not. You don’t take away a mans freedom based on a hunch.

I'm not a lawyer, but I've been in court more times than I would have liked. One thing I have observed is that both witnesses and jury members seem to take their duties much more seriously than might be expected of them. For either murder charge that has been filed, the minimum sentence is life, with no eligibility for parole until forty full years have been served. PF was 32 years old when arrested, meaning that if he is convicted the earliest possible parole date would be in his 72nd year. That's a really cold, hard decision for twelve people to make about another human being, even if they each despise him. I believe a jury will do the right thing, but as you said: You don't take away a man's freedom based on a hunch."

 

[MassGuy]

I'm not a lawyer, but I've been in court more times than I would have liked. One thing I have observed is that both witnesses and jury ,members seem to take their duties much more seriously than might be expected of them. For either murder charge that has been filed, the minimum sentence is life, with no eligibility for parole until forty full years have been served. PF was 32 years old when arrested, meaning that if he is convicted the earliest possible parole date would be in his 72nd year. That's are really cold, hard decision for twelve people to make about another human being, even if they each despise him. I believe a jury will do the right thing, but as you said: You don't take away a man's freedom based on a hunch."

I agree. And I don’t think a “hunch” will be necessary here.

I think the evidence against him will be unequivocal.

 

[susiQ]

Where oh where has KL gone, where oh where can she be??
(insert music) She appears to have fallen off the face of the earth. I find this odd. No sightings, anywhere? Not one reporter has tracked her down? Not one leak? Is this even possible?

I certainly agree with SandyQLS on this point, she is a most problematic witness and the defence will have a "hay day" with her, and rightly so. As I said in a prior post, I sure hope the DA has plenty of evidence against PF without relying on her. Like many here, I can't wait to see what they have on PF. I just wish KL was "rooming" next to him

 

[InvSmith]

This article states that PF picked up daughter from the grocery store. Is this a change in PF’s storyline? Is this why the video doesn’t show KB leaving the store?

Oddly, this is what has made sense to me but PF told LE several versions so several versions have been reported. One has been KB dropped the child off. The other that he picked the child up at the townhome. Either version, LE verbalized that he placed himself as the last person to see KB. This is a BIG problem.

 

[InvSmith]

There is a huge opening for the defense revealed in the CBS interview, in that this potential direct witness to PF’s “borderline abusive” behavior said she and KB lived together during the time that she was pregnant. The woman has never lived near Woodland Park, leaving only the choice that KB lived with her family, an eight hour round trip. The RR’s have also asserted to CBS that during the same period PF was actively involved in a romantic but abusive affair with KK, who lives 22 round trip hours distant. The amount of time and gasoline required to pull it off staggers the imagination. This early in the process is NOT a good time for cracks to start appearing in the prosecution’s case.

It was reported that KB had an apartment in WP.

 

[InvSmith]

I will just point out that he very well may have been a kind, gentle guy in many people’s eyes, with a separate standard of behavior for KB. And perhaps for any other women he was involved with.

This is why it disturbs me to see on this site and elsewhere people say, in effect, they would never believe that someone they think well of could murder their partner in advance of seeing the concrete evidence. You don’t have to believe everything you hear, but it’s wise to come to terms with the reality that just because you think someone is nice doesn’t mean they are nice to everyone.

That’s precisely how people skate by in life hiding their capacity for evil.

We have two girlfriends of the girlfriends saying both were abused/threatened.

 

[ajaylee]

Re: PF unusual arrest - including the prosecution's unusual holding on to documents.

I recall someone in law enforcement referenced concern for others who might be involved. I wonder if they had strong reason to think PF might do something to someone, perhaps someone not even on their radar yet. I don't know any better way to safeguard the public than to arrest him, even if they weren't close to finishing their investigation.

 

[Dave F.]

The news conference by the district attorney prosecuting this case is online at the link below. It's rather lengthy, with starts and stops, but he explains that the two murder charges represent two different theories of how the one crime of murder was commited, so one will be dropped as the evidence is gathered. He distinctly said that each one of the three charges of Solicitation represented a separate solicitation. The DA was followed by the Assistant DA, who explained the motions being contested at that time and explained that the next hearing date will be when they actually present evidence. PF can enter a plea after this, but he is not required to. I can caution that the presentation of evidence in the court does not mean that we will automatically see it. The information has to be shared with PF by ruling, but there is still a court order sealing all evidence from the public, and there is no motion pending to unseal it.

 

[heartgoesout]

delete

 

[InvSmith]

Apparently PF planned this over a period of at least two months. He is accused of 'soliciting' someone (or someones) three times. He obviously gave this some thought. I'm assuming he came up with the idea of the cellphone. That sounds like he thought everyone would think she disappeared somewhere on the way to see her grandmother.

So with this much planning, wouldn't you think he also gave thought to how and more importantly, where he would dispose of the body?

I believe I've seen reports that all of his time can be accounted for - he never left the area, so it couldn't have been him who planted the phone. That doesn't seem to rule out the possibility that he killed her at her townhome and took the body right then and disposed of it somewhere he had prepared in advance. The subsequent trip to the landfill where he sat in the truck while two guys unloaded the trailer could be completely normal stuff.

The body was obviously planned well because it has not been found. This does not mean LE doesn't know where and how the body was dispose of or manner of death. This may mean the manner of disposal was in such a way as difficult to retrieve which is awful to write. God bless the B family and I pray this was not the case.

 

[susiQ]

We have two girlfriends of the girlfriends saying both were abused/threatened.

Two completely different women. One CANNOT equate KB with KL. KL had a choice. I understand abuse, but no one and I mean NO ONE could threaten me into participating in such a crime against an innocent woman. KL doesn't strike me as an innocent abused victim of PF. She participated by choice. KB was their victim.

 

[Lhughessk]

Maybe that's why video of her leaving wasn't released to the public. It's their 8 ball corner pocket.
Also tells me others were involved,and possibly more vehicles.
It's really a matter of who is willing to go all the down for PF. How many wagons will get taken out of the circle?
MOO.

I have a different take. I think that we haven’t been shown the video of her leaving the store because it isn’t of much evidentiary value. I mean, what’s the point of watching someone’s back as they walk away?