CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #44 *ARREST*

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I agree completely. Kk was the motivating force in all of this and he is just some stupid man who goes along with whatever is handed him. It may have taken months for KK to drive it in that KB needed to be killed but it was her idea make no doubt about that. She’s cold and calculating and when you combine that with an idiotic man there’s always trouble.

PF is stupid, but make no mistake, he is as evil as they come.

He drove this plot; he wanted Kelsey dead.

There is no evidence that KK was the person who pushed him to kill Kelsey, and every indication that the opposite is true.

In August, he was thinking about gaining sole custody of their baby.

That appears to be the motive, not KK.

Saying that KK is the one who is “cold and calculating” and PF is merely “some stupid man,” doesn’t jibe with the facts here.

It makes a man who literally bashed Kelsey’s face in, into some innocent pawn, and shifts the blame to KK.

Hell no.
 
I agree completely. Kk was the motivating force in all of this and he is just some stupid man who goes along with whatever is handed him. It may have taken months for KK to drive it in that KB needed to be killed but it was her idea make no doubt about that. She’s cold and calculating and when you combine that with an idiotic man there’s always trouble.
Is he so stupid to keep silent and protect KK? I'm not buying it. IMO there's no indication that she was the instigator. It is possible, but not likely.
 
Oh she deserves to be bashed. But when we start getting into twisting or ignoring evidence in order to blame her for the murder and absolve PF, or when that's not possible we start seeing other ways of making her culpable - she's the mastermind even if she didn't do the deed and he was just some unwitting dupe of hers- that's when it just gets into the realm of absurdity to me. Sexist absurdity.

One has to ignore what's been said about him by those who've known him. How he beat horses. Once lost his temper so badly he threw over a whole horse trailer with the horse in it. And one has to ignore his demeanor. In the aftermath of the brutal murder of the mother of his child, he calmly ate Thanksgiving dinner, and went about life, coldly lying about KB, making up stories to show she was a messed up person. And then how he glared silently, and sinisterly at the media with a suppressed but very controlled rage.

That took some balls. A normal person being hounded by the media when they're suspected of murder would probably have a hard time staring silently like that, with such purpose and intense eye contact. He's used to calling the shots and lying and not being challenged, IMO.

Everything about the case makes sense from the perspective that he was the engineer and tried to get his strung along lover to be the tool.

She reeks of insecurity and desperation. He reeks of control and rage.

Even the language she says he used, "You better get over here. You have a mess to clean up." Sounds about right to me. Sounds like the language used by a man who controls women and knows how to play on their emotions and utilize their insecurities for his own gain.

And yet? It can't be him. He's just an idiot. The witch is the one who designed it all.

Ugh.
Having lived in the area, I have very heavy qualms about the flipping incident. Not to support PF, but because I know the area, I know that it's next to impossible to manage, and I know how the response would have been. Sorry, but it's an out and out lie. And since I can't believe the one thing, I can't bring myself to believe anything that one person claims.

But the rest, agreed. He's a control freak. Absolutely. KK has some insecurity or other issues. And thus, this is the base for this disaster.

But the ongoing bashing is really pretty heavily ignoring what PF is and did. It's all how KK is the sole responsible party half the time. Which goes back to she's supposed to be the demure female and boys will be boys.
 
Me either and at this point, no one knew she was missing - although if invited to Thanksgiving dinner - I would wonder why she didn't show up but baby was there? But if PF laid the groundwork - she wouldn't think twice if he told her the same story - she went off to visit her grandmother. No reason to think otherwise IMO even with KK there, if she was. I wonder if she will be called as a witness at the next custody hearing. Would really like her to verify both of them were seen at the burning IMO.
I would damn sure check it out,and demand to know what is going on. Also think about my precious grandchild,it's too late for Kelsey, but if one truly loves their grandchild one must think about how that child is going to feel about what transpired. Her taking the fifth speaks volumes as far as that concernBecause a court of law might not get her,but the eyes of a child will. Sadly Baby K will eventually learn what happened. She'll know.
MOO
 
Apparently someone knowlegable about this subject, wrote about
this on a much earlier thread. Seems when hit the right way and
with enough force, blunt force hits to the head can totally dislodge
teeth w/ roots. I've never heard that but it could be true. I'll
do some searching and see what I can find.
But if there was a sweater wrapped around KB's head--as KK claims PF told her--then how did a tooth fly all the way to a vent?

iirc, KK also claims PF told her to look for the tooth in the vent. If he knew it was there, why didn't he pick it up and dispose of it?

JMO
 
PF is stupid, but make no mistake, he is as evil as they come.

He drove this plot; he wanted Kelsey dead.

There is no evidence that KK was the person who pushed him to kill Kelsey, and every indication that the opposite is true.

In August, he was thinking about gaining sole custody of their baby.

That appears to be the motive, not KK.

Saying that KK is the one who is “cold and calculating” and PF is merely “some stupid man,” doesn’t jibe with the facts here.

It makes a man who literally bashed Kelsey’s face in, into some innocent pawn, and shifts the blame to KK.

Hell no.

Yes and let me make clear- I'm not some man-hating person who thinks women can't be evil or criminal masterminds. Nope. I don't like sexism from either direction.

It was very upsetting to me that some made Jodi arias out to be the victim and Travis Alexander out to be the abuser in that relationship. Some could not accept that a man could be an innocent victim of domestic violence. Yes they can and yes he was.

I was appalled that the defense trotted out an expert who clearly believed men were inherently violent, to bash the victim and glory the murderer, as the victim's family had to sit silently by.

I will never forget that.

Justice is justice. We should not twist facts in order to confirm our own biases. Right?
 
But if there was a sweater wrapped around KB's head--as KK claims PF told her--then how did a tooth fly all the way to a vent?

iirc, KK also claims PF told her to look for the tooth in the vent. If he knew it was there, why didn't he pick it up and dispose of it?

JMO

The sweater was being used as a blindfold so (allegedly) KB could sniff the candles PF held up to her to try to guess what the scent was. That would have meant that her nose and mouth were uncovered.
 
@SamKraemerTV
NEW TODAY: We’re at the Midway Landfill as investigators prepare to search the property for Kelsey Berreth’s remains. Woodland Park Police Commander Chris Adams is about to brief us. #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney @KOAA

D0R8vePVYAAsOP3.jpg
 
Having lived in the area, I have very heavy qualms about the flipping incident. Not to support PF, but because I know the area, I know that it's next to impossible to manage, and I know how the response would have been. Sorry, but it's an out and out lie. And since I can't believe the one thing, I can't bring myself to believe anything that one person claims.

But the rest, agreed. He's a control freak. Absolutely. KK has some insecurity or other issues. And thus, this is the base for this disaster.

But the ongoing bashing is really pretty heavily ignoring what PF is and did. It's all how KK is the sole responsible party half the time. Which goes back to she's supposed to be the demure female and boys will be boys.

Well unless you were there you can't say that's a lie. And it wasn't just one person who said things that indicate he's violent with animals. An ex stated as much and a friend said the reports about his treatment of animals were "mixed".
 
My interest is in the motive behind the 'burning in clear sight' of the remains of the victim. The need to have observers is more than a whiff of falò delle vanità, symbolic religious undertones, imo.

The burning of Kelsey's remains was certainly not a funeral pyre we know that. Not done in shame, or regret.
IMO, it was a ritualistic offering to the incumbent who is yet to face the wrath of the court.
The other witness, well she was just a future discard, imo.
 
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Why would little kids need to know this?

Even little kids at school pick up things from their parents, and when her kids get older, sooner or later someone will see it on the internet. Kids can be so cruel, and all it takes is one hateful bully coming to school and telling one of her kids what 'mommy' was involved in: adultery, lies and murder.
 
But if there was a sweater wrapped around KB's head--as KK claims PF told her--then how did a tooth fly all the way to a vent?

iirc, KK also claims PF told her to look for the tooth in the vent. If he knew it was there, why didn't he pick it up and dispose of it?

JMO

If you strike someone with enough force whatever is on them can be dislodged. Based on the blood evidence it appears she wasn't killed with one blow. And he might have seen a tooth fly or saw teeth missing from her skull but did not find it.

I'm sure he wanted to get out of there fast to make his appearance with the baby at Thanskgiving and pretend all was fine.
 
Yes and let me make clear- I'm not some man-hating person who thinks women can't be evil or criminal masterminds. Nope. I don't like sexism from either direction.

It was very upsetting to me that some made Jodi arias out to be the victim and Travis Alexander out to be the abuser in that relationship. Some could not accept that a man could be an innocent victim of domestic violence. Yes they can and yes he was.

I was appalled that the defense trotted out an expert who clearly believed men were inherently violent, to bash the victim and glory the murderer, as the victim's family had to sit silently by.

I will never forget that.

Justice is justice. We should not twist facts in order to confirm our own biases. Right?
It’s mind boggling in the sense that there is literally no evidence that indicates that KK was the one pulling the strings here.

She’s evil, she’s a terrible human being, we hate her, but he’s the worst of the two.

I said it yesterday:

Remove KK and Kelsey is likely still dead.

Remove PF, and Kelsey is absolutely still alive.

He wasn’t manipulated into killing Kelsey, he beat her to death because he wanted to.

All indications are that KK was doing his bidding, not the other way around.
 
But if there was a sweater wrapped around KB's head--as KK claims PF told her--then how did a tooth fly all the way to a vent?

iirc, KK also claims PF told her to look for the tooth in the vent. If he knew it was there, why didn't he pick it up and dispose of it?

JMO
I doubt the sweater stayed in place after the first bash. Also teeth can totally be knocked out, root and all, from falling on the face
a certain way.
I'm sure it was beneath him to stop and pick up any body parts
from the woman he just blugeoned. Other than a cursory attempt
to hide his massacre using baby wipes, he left the mess for his
cohort.
 
Oh dear - that's so sad- I wonder if there was any blood on them - and sure hope they checked IMO

Good idea, I hope that was checked. KB's kitchen is such a small space that I can't imagine how blood got on the foil covering the cinnamon rolls on the stove and under some chairs and yet none landed on the flowers on the table. :(
 
D0R8vePVYAAsOP3.jpg


Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV 25m25 minutes ago
NEW TODAY: We’re at the Midway Landfill as investigators prepare to search the property for Kelsey Berreth’s remains. Woodland Park Police Commander Chris Adams is about to brief us. #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney @KOAA
D0R9Rv5U0AAikeE.jpg


Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
I’ll tweet some updates after. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Here’s some info on the search from what police provided us. They will search 8 hours per day for an expected 35 days, starting tomorrow. They’re focused on a specific 4,320 cubic yards of trash. #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney @KOAA

D0SCT1qV4AAKMJ7.jpg

1:36 PM - 25 Feb 2019
 
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