CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #47 *ARREST*

[lindaromas]

Someone asked earlier about whether or not KB would have had a DNA sample on file due to her Pilots licensing.
I believe it was DaveF asking.
I checked with my family member who is a career commercial
pilot of 30+ years and he said: He has never been asked to
submit a DNA sample for licensing or employment. He's
worked for numerous employers flying passenger airliners
as well as cargo and service providers as well as being a former
military pilot.
So it's not likely KB's DNA is on file unless it's now customary
when one gives birth in a hospital. I'm too old to know about that.

I’m thinking/hoping they can pull KBs DNA from a hairbrush (hairstrands) the tampon and possibly from baby K, CB, DB

 

[Seattle1]

Someone asked earlier about whether or not KB would have had a DNA sample on file due to her Pilots licensing.
I believe it was DaveF asking.
I checked with my family member who is a career commercial
pilot of 30+ years and he said: He has never been asked to
submit a DNA sample for licensing or employment. He's
worked for numerous employers flying passenger airliners
as well as cargo and service providers as well as being a former
military pilot.
So it's not likely KB's DNA is on file unless it's now customary
when one gives birth in a hospital. I'm too old to know about that.

I believe finger printing is the norm for some occupations/licenses but I'm also not aware of DNA profiles on file for pilots.

I believe investigators would be able to extract DNA from test samples of KB's toothbrush or hairbrush. MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

I’m thinking/hoping they can pull KBs DNA from a hairbrush (hairstrands) the tampon and possibly from baby K, CB, DB

Yes, I don't think it would be a problem. They may already have it. Imo

 

[steeltowngirl]

I've read over the numerous threads over the past week, and formed a somewhat theory. I have a kind of wild imagination that tends to run rampant, so please, take a small jog with me. Just go easy on me, with the rebuttals I KNOW I will receive!



This is where things immediately get interesting for me! We know KB liked her once a week Chai Latte (don't we all?). WHAT IF, PF had her so worn out and met her with said drink, during his pickup for baby K? With the price for them, I know I would accept! Could he have drugged it? Could KKL have given him enough Xanax, Soma, or the like to put in it that KB's body couldn't handle it? OR could he have switched up any of the medication she may have been on for anxiety/depression for something that appeared similar? With KKL's background she would have had the knowledge of the appearance of a good amount of prescriptions.

IMO it's REALLY DIFFICULT & extreem to go from poisoning someone to an all out blood bath murder. I don't see it!

My personal theory: PF figured out how to poison her (something in the Chai) and incapacitate her until KKL got there(ie: "you have a mess to clean up"). (black tote w/silver handles) PF & KKL weren't counting on the tote being air tight, KB dies from a mixture of overdose, lack of oxygen, & carbon monoxide poisoning. There is no blood (let's face it KKL is a pathological liar), aside from tampons and typical menses blood found in the home of a typical "child bearing-aged female"!

Ok you all can start your hole punching now. We all know PF & KKL are neither smart nor very good at hiding ANYTHING. Although, my sights are aimed on KKL for this. She jumped WWAAAAAAYYY too quickly at a plea deal for comfort, for just evidence tampering JMO of course.

It is an interesting theory - staged suicide went wrong. And KK’s hands are certainly far dirtier than the plea deal reveals.

Then again, PF was the last to see KB on camera, and his lies began on Thanksgiving. And he had the custody motive.

Hoping they find the bat.

Hoping more that they find sweet Kelsey’s remains.

 

[justaparent]

For some reason I don’t think he burned her body. I think it may have been clothes from the crime and other things from the crime

If they did burn her body, everyone around would have known they weren’t just burning trash (I don’t know if there are additives to mask the odor). I suppose they could say it was an animal that had died, but the smoke/odor likely would have spread and certainly would have been noticed on the property.

Also, how long would it take to burn a body? It seems it would be a lengthy process in that type of open container, and would not be complete. Someone other than PF had to know something iffy was taking place. It is horrendous to even think about doing this, and makes it clear that any participants are monsters.

JMO

 

[ilovechili]

I do not think it has been talked about but are there any thoughts on what the warrants that had no returns pertain to? My first thought was they were maybe for searches of various landfills where they found nothing, or businesses for video? But then I thought maybe they are search warrants where they are still awaiting results like phone records, email records, etc.?

Any thoughts?

 

[Hatfield]

If they did burn her body, everyone around would have known they weren’t just burning trash (I don’t know if there are additives to mask the odor). I suppose they could say it was an animal that had died, but the smoke/odor likely would have spread and certainly would have been noticed on the property.

Also, how long would it take to burn a body? It seems it would be a lengthy process in that type of open container, and would not be complete. Someone other than PF had to know something iffy was taking place. It is horrendous to even think about doing this, and makes it clear that any participants are monsters.

JMO

Exactly. That open container would be problematic because in order to get a good burn then you need air circulation and air holes getting to the bottom of a fire.

In the 55 gallon drum I have, I have many holes in the drum near the bottom and around the sides and even with those I usually have to get a long stick and stir the stuff at the bottom to burn it cleanly. And that is just wood.

If he used that large metal tub we are seeing pictures of then even if he used oil, there is no doubt in my mind that he would be at it for a very long time (hours) and even after all his attempts there would still be remains left IMO.

Its one of the reasons I doubt he even attempted it because PF would know this too.
Burning the tote and other evidence, yes.

 

[susiQ]

For some reason I don’t think he burned her body. I think it may have been clothes from the crime and other things from the crime

I have wondered about the that. Bags of evidence burned. The next question is where is the body? Was there a wood chipper anywhere around?

If he was just burning clothes, why use a black plastic tote? Garbage bags would have sufficed, and why bother going to such lengths (Nash Ranch/tractor) to hide secondary evidence. As well, he wouldn't have needed 5 gallons of gasoline and oil to burn clothing, a baseball bat and other items. I 100% believe KB's body was in that tote. I believe the cadaver dogs hit on the bail of hay it was sitting on. As most of us know, these hard plastic totes can crack and perhaps it got a hole or crack while being transported or lifted by the forks of the tractor. Even if it didn't break and leak body fluid, plastic absorbs odours extremely well and a dead body gives off a distinct odour. Something made those dogs react to that bale of hay.
ed:sp

 

[Dave F.]

It is alleged that KB’s body was burned in a water trough in the front yard while KK and SF watched. Was baby K brought outside to watch her mother’s body burn? We have not yet found the bottom of this groups deprivity. I don’t think PF looked at baby K as nothing more than any of his possessions. Same level as his cattle, horses , or dogs. In my opinion he is that deprived of any human spirit.
I would like to know more about the water trough used. Typically they are of thin sheet metal construction with a cheaply welded seam down the middle of the bottom. Not built for heat and would probably leak during the fire. It has to be a treasure trove of evidence. What he did with it is very important. I also do not believe PF was able to get the fire hot enough for complete cremation. There were most likely a lot of remains and not dust to dispose of.
Finally I don’t think he will plead guilty. He has nothing but time on his hands for the rest of his life so he will play it for all it is worth.

The burn ring is visible in the KOAA TV drone wideo of PF's ranch taken December 14th, and that exact trough, or one of the others that he had just like it, is also visible. It was of similar construction to this sales page:
Hastings 22GA Steel Round Stock Tank - 3' x 2' - 101 Gallon
The burn spot was the faint round ring below the point of the arrow in this still shot from the KOAA drone video:

 

[Elley Mae]

Kenney told investigators that Frazee put the tote and other items from the house in a large trough — one that could hold about 100 gallons. Using motor oil and at least five gallons of gasoline, Frazee set the tote on fire.

Affidavit details events leading up to Berreth’s death

.....

Snip
With Berreth's body in a Toyota Tacoma, they drove to Frazee's property in Teller County, where he used gasoline and oil to burn a tote containing the body and the baseball bat used to kill her.

"She (Kenney) stayed there for several hours while the fire burned," Slater testified. At one point at least, Frazee's mother, Sheila Frazee, reportedly came outside and looked.

Patrick Frazee allegedly had blindfolded Kelsey Berreth, bludgeoned her with baseball bat

....

Forensic investigation of burnt human remains

[Full text] Forensic investigation of burnt human remains | RRFMS


.....

Jmo pf burned Kelsey.

 

[Dave F.]

If he was just burning clothes, why use a black plastic tote? Garbage bags would have sufficed, and why bother going to such lengths (Nash Ranch/tractor) to hide secondary evidence. As well, he wouldn't have needed 5 gallons of gasoline and oil to burn clothing, a baseball bat and other items. I 100% believe KB's body was in that tote. I believe the cadaver dogs hit on the bail of hay it was sitting on. As most of us know, these hard plastic totes can crack and perhaps it got a hole or crack while being transported or lifted by the forks of the tractor. Even if it didn't break and leak body fluid, plastic absorbs odours extremely well and a dead body gives off a distinct odour. Something made those dogs react to that bail of hay.

I have no doubt that the body was in the tote on the bail of hay on the night of the 22nd, but phone tracking had PF returning to the area the following day, with no explanation by LE. In the late afternoon of the 24th, PF and KKL recovered the tote. The dog hit both when suspended above the stack on the hay rake, and at a spot of ground at the base of the stack. My impression is that there wasn't room in the barn for the tractor / hay rake and the pickup truck at the same time. Did he pull up to the barn entrance, lift the tote out of the truck and carry to to the hay rake, then start the tractor and use it to place the tote on the stack, then come back two days later pull it down with the hay rake, set it off on the ground by the stack, remove the tractor and back in the truck; OR did he pull the tractor / hay rake out of the barn first, back in the truck, unload the tote and set it on the ground by the stack, and then park the tractor outside and back his truck in to the tote location, then repeat the eact same steps in reverse when he retrieved the tote?
I don't have the anwer, but it's a helluva question!

 

[susiQ]

JMO
I am with you on this right now. I am leaning to either PF or both of them dumped or buried her body somewhere near Nash farm. I think KK conveniently says she never saw the body in the tote as it was being burned so she can never be caught in that lie because its her word against his, and she can always claim she thought the body was in the tote as it was being burned.

Also I have burned tons of tree limbs and based on experience of burning I know how difficult it would be to try to burn a body down completely and I know PF would know that too so I dont think he would even attempt it because it would hardly ever burn cleanly down and he would just create more of a mess. But I have never used oil in my fires so if that works better than I think it would then I suppose its possible he did try to burn her but right now I am thinking they only burnt the tote and the last of the evidence.

The tote needed burning anyway since it would have had blood stains and body fluids (sorry so gross).

I continue to hope they will find that "blob" of black plastic at the landfill. Surely, if they find what's left of the black tote the question of whether or not they burned the body will be laid to rest. Kelsey's bones will be embedded in it.

With respect to the metal trough used, if it was disposed of at the transfer station it would have gone into the metal bin for recycling and not to the landfill, right? At least that is how we do it where I live.

 

[Mom24]

If they did burn her body, everyone around would have known they weren’t just burning trash (I don’t know if there are additives to mask the odor). I suppose they could say it was an animal that had died, but the smoke/odor likely would have spread and certainly would have been noticed on the property.

Also, how long would it take to burn a body? It seems it would be a lengthy process in that type of open container, and would not be complete. Someone other than PF had to know something iffy was taking place. It is horrendous to even think about doing this, and makes it clear that any participants are monsters.

JMO

People around wouldn't have smelled it. There was another case years ago where a woman had burned people on her horse farm. She took in male boarders, took their money and possessions, poisoned them and then burned them on her property. No one around knew and there were very few pieces of remains left. Look up Sheila LaBarre for reference.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I've read over the numerous threads over the past week, and formed a somewhat theory. I have a kind of wild imagination that tends to run rampant, so please, take a small jog with me. Just go easy on me, with the rebuttals I KNOW I will receive!



This is where things immediately get interesting for me! We know KB liked her once a week Chai Latte (don't we all?). WHAT IF, PF had her so worn out and met her with said drink, during his pickup for baby K? With the price for them, I know I would accept! Could he have drugged it? Could KKL have given him enough Xanax, Soma, or the like to put in it that KB's body couldn't handle it? OR could he have switched up any of the medication she may have been on for anxiety/depression for something that appeared similar? With KKL's background she would have had the knowledge of the appearance of a good amount of prescriptions.

IMO it's REALLY DIFFICULT & extreem to go from poisoning someone to an all out blood bath murder. I don't see it!

My personal theory: PF figured out how to poison her (something in the Chai) and incapacitate her until KKL got there(ie: "you have a mess to clean up"). (black tote w/silver handles) PF & KKL weren't counting on the tote being air tight, KB dies from a mixture of overdose, lack of oxygen, & carbon monoxide poisoning. There is no blood (let's face it KKL is a pathological liar), aside from tampons and typical menses blood found in the home of a typical "child bearing-aged female"!

Ok you all can start your hole punching now. We all know PF & KKL are neither smart nor very good at hiding ANYTHING. Although, my sights are aimed on KKL for this. She jumped WWAAAAAAYYY too quickly at a plea deal for comfort, for just evidence tampering JMO of course.

The only real challenge I see to your theory is that if they managed to successfully poison her, there would be no reason to hide her body -- it would then look like a suicide like they supposedly wanted. So no tote nor burning needed.

Also I think we know with pretty high certainty that LE found far more blood than a menstrual period could produce, not to mention that menstrual blood can be distinguished chemically from vein/artery blood. If LE knew that the blood found was menstrual blood, I don't think they would have said with such confidence that KB was dead.

The whole thing is so bizarre...

 

[Kapua]

It makes sense that the body may not have been burned with the storage container. She claimed she never saw the body so she really can't get caught in a lie. It never made sense to me that they would burn the body right in the tote.
If they do find the body unburned, they can determine whether or not she was struck with a baseball bat, and they won't need her testimony so much after all.
The question is would they be able to prove she was lying. I guess that would depend on the phone data. If they spoke about it on the burner phones it would likely be hard to prove.

The cadaver dogs hit on the one, discolored hay bale. I think she was burned in the tote, as bizarre as that seems. LE must think so, too, because they are searching the landfill. MOO

 

[susiQ]

I have no doubt that the body was in the tote on the bail of hay on the night of the 22nd, but phone tracking had PF returning to the area the following day, with no explanation by LE. In the late afternoon of the 24th, PF and KKL recovered the tote. The dog hit both when suspended above the stack on the hay rake, and at a spot of ground at the base of the stack. My impression is that there wasn't room in the barn for the tractor / hay rake and the pickup truck at the same time. Did he pull up to the barn entrance, lift the tote out of the truck and carry to to the hay rake, then start the tractor and use it to place the tote on the stack, then come back two days later pull it down with the hay rake, set it off on the ground by the stack, remove the tractor and back in the truck; OR did he pull the tractor / hay rake out of the barn first, back in the truck, unload the tote and set it on the ground by the stack, and then park the tractor outside and back his truck in to the tote location, then repeat the eact same steps in reverse when he retrieved the tote?
I don't have the anwer, but it's a helluva question!

I think it likely that PF returned on Nov. 23rd just to make sure everything was like he left it the day before. Whatever his relationship with Nash Ranch was, he obviously felt relatively confident no one was going to be there over the TG weekend to discover the tote but I'm sure he needed to double check.

There are so many little things in this case that drive me crazy. They make no sense. Then I remind myself that most of what we know is driven by KK's narrative and just as we question everything that came out of PF's lying mouth, we need to remember what a prolific liar she is too. It's not hard to lie about things that can't be proven either way and I think that's what contributes to making this case so difficult. Then mix a bit of "truth" to CYA. I guess part of the problem is that we don't know everything LE does. I try to imagine what kind of defence PF's attorney is going to launch. How can he attack KK without implicating PF too? I'm sure he'll have an angle. I'm guessing by finding holes in KK's narrative he will attempt to instil reasonable doubt. MOO

 

[susiQ]

People around wouldn't have smelled it. There was another case years ago where a woman had burned people on her horse farm. She took in male boarders, took their money and possessions, poisoned them and then burned them on her property. No one around knew and there were very few pieces of remains left. Look up Sheila LaBarre for reference.

It just amazes me sometimes how many monsters live among us

 

[ajaylee]

Great points. I have given up trying to find logic in this story or in their actions. I waver between thinking much is fabricated to thinking they are just this stupid, or a combination of both. Very little makes sense.

It also occurred to me just recently most of us look at him with the bat as some kind of rage and need on his part. However, he tried to get KK to use a metal rod and a bat as well which belies his need to take out that anger on her himself. Why?? This makes no sense to me either. He seemed to have some type of need to see her hurt as severely as possible? This would also make me tend to believe poisoning coffee and bringing coffee was KK's idea because the other suggestions are all bats and rods and what he eventually used was allegedly a bat. And those were likely his idea...?

Another bit of data that makes zero sense to me: KK took the metal rod back to the ranchette and left it by the gate, IIRC.

??? OK, for someone who is driving 800 miles roundtrip to see her guy, I guess an extra round trip from WP to the ranchette is nothing, but why did she return the metal rod? There was no 'evidence' on it because she hadn't used it.

 

[susiQ]

@Dave F.
Sunset was early Nov. 22nd. Is it possible that PF quickly ran out to Nash Ranch to drop off the tote either in front of the hay bales or onto the forks of the tractor, rushed back for dinner and then went back in the wee hours of the morning (Nov. 23rd) to lift it up onto the hay bales? Do we even know when Ma F. served up TG dinner? Was it 5 p.m. or later? Did PF show up, drop off baby K and say he needed to get something at the local variety quickly? What I recall is SF2 saying he arrived around 2:30p.m. and Patrick arrived later as well as the two phone calls placed to KK and SF later in the afternoon around 3:30p.m. or so. Thoughts?

 

[Snowsnake]

I have no doubt that the body was in the tote on the bail of hay on the night of the 22nd, but phone tracking had PF returning to the area the following day, with no explanation by LE. In the late afternoon of the 24th, PF and KKL recovered the tote. The dog hit both when suspended above the stack on the hay rake, and at a spot of ground at the base of the stack. My impression is that there wasn't room in the barn for the tractor / hay rake and the pickup truck at the same time. Did he pull up to the barn entrance, lift the tote out of the truck and carry to to the hay rake, then start the tractor and use it to place the tote on the stack, then come back two days later pull it down with the hay rake, set it off on the ground by the stack, remove the tractor and back in the truck; OR did he pull the tractor / hay rake out of the barn first, back in the truck, unload the tote and set it on the ground by the stack, and then park the tractor outside and back his truck in to the tote location, then repeat the eact same steps in reverse when he retrieved the tote?
I don't have the anwer, but it's a helluva question!

I have not seen a picture of the tractor used. Typically the bales used come in square sizes of 4x4x8, 4x3x8, 3x3x8 all called large squares. A set of hay forks is attached to the front loader of the tractor to move the bales around. The stained bale would have the tote print. This stain would be due to heat both from the decomposition of the body and the heat absorbed from the placement of the black tote on the top of the stack in the barn where heat is greater from the roof. The tote simply heats faster and would cause a burn signature on the bale.