CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #5

[UnicornDragon]

Good point. But as a Mom, I sure would not want the day off on Thanksgiving or Christmas of all days! JMO

To me, I'd want my kids Christmas and Easter. The rest of the holidays, meh. If they want to go do whatever, go right ahead. Right now, they are little kids yet, but I spent a lot of holidays for most of my life not with my family, so I fully admit my views may be warped.

 

[Kelsey's Aunt]

 

[gitana1]

I do have children. And yes, please. Gladly. If someone wants them for a day, take them.

A lot of this is based on KB being primary custodian. She may not have been. She may not be the "ideal" parent everyone is wanting her to be. I've met plenty of mothers who are unconcerned as all get out about their children, the less time with them, the better.

I mean, I'm pretty sure the hoof beats are coming from horses. But there may be a zebra or two in that pack.

Her family have described her as a responsible person and adoring parent. It's clear she shared parenting with PF but nothing suggests she willfully disappeared and left her child with the daddy for an extended period or indefinitely.

LE doesn't get probable cause-based search warrants when there's nothing but evidence that mom wasn't such a great mom after all.

 

[Thespyma]

I am prior Military. I was a Behavior Science Specialist, I worked in Psy Ops. I'm certainly not a leading expert on human behavior, but I am willing to bet that allowing PF to bring his daughter was a very calculated move. If I were interrogating PF I would definitely do these two things...
First and foremost I would ensure leverage. In this case I believe the child is LE's leverage. Mind you, (regarding your question) the child is currently in a very safe environment.
Questioning AFTER the search warrant was implemented may suggest to PF that LE has found something that may strengthen their case against him (should there be one). LE can also say (whether or not they do or they don't) that they now have a strong case against him. This may ultimately get him to talk...

I can see your point about the baby being leverage. I am sure that she is indeed possible leverage and having him bring her to the station for the questioning gives a certain edge to the police. I would hope the daughter is not inside the interrogation room during the questioning as this is not a great environment for the child OR for the interrogator. Another issue would be the presence of the child during the questioning. As a military trained Interrogator/CI with now a Psychologist, I know it is never wise to have more than one person in the room to be questioned though not uncommon for two people DOING the questioning depending on the demeanor of the person being questioned a the needs of both interrogator and person being questioned. I can see they might have the child outside the questioning room with a competent person watching her. There is usually a room, often with toys and books set aside for this. PF would know the child was safe and very close by, but he would be more able to respond to the questioning instead of focusing on the child in the room. In order to get a good response, the person being questioned should not have extra distraction and a toddler/infant is a HUGE distraction!

 

[?mysterian?]

Hopefully going home on Sunday!Valve seems to be doing okay. Still woozy, still sleeping a lot, but with the infection controlled at least I don't feel *sick.* Anxious to get home and start feeling Christmasy.

That's wonderful news! Glad you're on the mend.

Back on topic: I never imagined so many restaurants would be open on Thanksgiving. I incorrectly assumed most were closed to give the employees a day off with their families. So it's possible PF/KB were going out for dinner. Did they? When did they leave each other's presence? Why didn't he report her missing? That right there makes me think he knows more about this disappearance than "someone else" (X) who came along after he left from picking up the baby

 

[Love Never Fails]

thanks. is this new or is it the pc? Hope you and all the family are holding on. praying for you!

 

[Peppery]

If his cell phone was home November 22-25, I’d be very curious to know how long after receiving the text “from” Kelsey was it viewed? My guess would be about 12 hours later...

 

[AmatuerDetective]

I do have children. And yes, please. Gladly. If someone wants them for a day, take them.

A lot of this is based on KB being primary custodian. She may not have been. She may not be the "ideal" parent everyone is wanting her to be. I've met plenty of mothers who are unconcerned as all get out about their children, the less time with them, the better.

I mean, I'm pretty sure the hoof beats are coming from horses. But there may be a zebra or two in that pack.

Are you saying when your child was one years old you were looking to bail on him/her on thanksgiving? I think I suck as a parent and that has never crossed my mind.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna948006

Now they say it’s looking suspicious. (Duh)
Fiancé hasn’t met with officials. (Not surprised)
His house is being searched. (About Time)
This has been their top priority. (Hmph)

IMO.

 

[Love Never Fails]

If this turns out to be a case of homicide, and I pray it isn't, there sure are a lot of murders of young women in this country! Abby and Libby, Mollie Tibbets, Shanaan Watts and maybe KB. Following these cases are so hard and yet, I feel compelled to keep coming back to read about them and praying for a safe return. Always hoping for a runaway bride type of case. Then we could all laugh at how crazy that was.

I am certain in my heart, this was NOT by KB's choice. I am sad.

 

[gitana1]

I can see your point about the baby being leverage. I am sure that she is indeed possible leverage and having him bring her to the station for the questioning gives a certain edge to the police. I would hope the daughter is not inside the interrogation room during the questioning as this is not a great environment for the child OR for the interrogator. Another issue would be the presence of the child during the questioning. As a military trained Interrogator/CI with now a Psychologist, I know it is never wise to have more than one person in the room to be questioned though not uncommon for two people DOING the questioning depending on the demeanor of the person being questioned a the needs of both interrogator and person being questioned. I can see they might have the child outside the questioning room with a competent person watching her. There is usually a room, often with toys and books set aside for this. PF would know the child was safe and very close by, but he would be more able to respond to the questioning instead of focusing on the child in the room. In order to get a good response, the person being questioned should not have extra distraction and a toddler/infant is a HUGE distraction!

This guy is not talking to LE and has not talked to LE. Regardless as to whether he has a comfy room for his daughter.

 

[Ccging]

Search warrant executed at Kelsey Berreth's fiance's home
Woodland Park Police Chief Miles De Young said at an afternoon news conference that Berreth's disappearance was "more suspicious" than authorities originally believed and said that they now believe she is not "intentionally avoiding efforts to find her."

De Young said there were no details available Friday about what led to a judge signing off on the warrant at Frazee's home, nor what they are seeking at the home, because the warrant is sealed.

He said investigators are now hoping Frazee will sit down and talk with investigators. He has thus far only communicated with them through his attorney, De Young said.

But Frazee is now not being ruled out as a suspect in Berreth's disappearance, De Young said. Asked if Frazee was considered a suspect or person of interest, De Young said investigators were "considering every possibility" and were "not willing to jump to conclusions."

De Young said Friday afternoon that there were "a number of other things" done up through Thursday night that led to a judge signing off on the warrant. He praised the agencies working on the case, which he called a "rough case to investigate."

De Young said Friday afternoon that it was investigators' "hope" that Berreth was still alive and said that was "absolutely a possibility."

I hope the “absolutely a possibility” means they have info she may be alive, I pray.

 

[bestill]

We're all praying for Kelsey @Kelsey's Aunt and your family! So many difficult days and unanswered questions.

 

[gitana1]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna948006

Now they say it’s looking suspicious. (Duh)
Fiancé hasn’t met with officials. (Not surprised)
His house is being searched. (About Time)
This has been their top priority. (Hmph)

IMO.

Do you think they've done nothing this whole time?
And that they've dropped the ball and are just now getting around to doing their jobs?

 

[CrimeAddict]

Exactly.

Someone who knew her.

Someone who wanted to delay the discovery of her disappearance.

Someone who wanted to lead the police away from him.

Seems pretty basic to me, have to check his phone pings. If he was smart he would have left his phone at home so when he texted himself at least it didn't ping him there as well.. but as we saw with CW, criminals are not as smart as they think they are.

 

[ZsaZsa]

The Police Chief said the search could take several days.I am just curious, when they remove a person from their property for that long, what happens to the animals there? Does someone assume the care and feeding? I saw horses, a dog, obviously a lot of cattle outside.

 

[Love Never Fails]

This guy is not talking to LE and has not talked to LE. Regardless as to whether he has a comfy room for his daughter.

I think this case will be a long ride. He has lawyered up and I can understand getting a lawyer. But I would be one who would ask that the lawyer go with me when I am answering questions, and then be completely forthcoming. No doubt he doesn't care where she is which makes him look guilty. In my opinion.

 

[Stunned]

If the only source of when and where PF picked up the child is PF, I give zero credibility to that information.

I hate this dance! And yet we dance!

 

[CapitalBat]

Do you think they've done nothing this whole time?
And that they've dropped the ball and are just now getting around to doing their jobs?

Speaking for myself, the only clue I have that things didn’t move faster is — wouldn’t PF (probably) have lawyered up faster if he was being seriously questioned in that window of time? How many days after she was reported missing was the PC/did he hire an attorney and was that time span indicative of a normal (pace) investigation?

 

[Damselfish]

I can see your point about the baby being leverage. I am sure that she is indeed possible leverage and having him bring her to the station for the questioning gives a certain edge to the police. I would hope the daughter is not inside the interrogation room during the questioning as this is not a great environment for the child OR for the interrogator. Another issue would be the presence of the child during the questioning. As a military trained Interrogator/CI with now a Psychologist, I know it is never wise to have more than one person in the room to be questioned though not uncommon for two people DOING the questioning depending on the demeanor of the person being questioned a the needs of both interrogator and person being questioned. I can see they might have the child outside the questioning room with a competent person watching her. There is usually a room, often with toys and books set aside for this. PF would know the child was safe and very close by, but he would be more able to respond to the questioning instead of focusing on the child in the room. In order to get a good response, the person being questioned should not have extra distraction and a toddler/infant is a HUGE distraction!

Exactly... I personally have never been in an interview where a minor was involved, but I am generally aware of the protocol . That being said, my post was meant to point out the possible logic for allowing the father to bring the child with him. I was also under the impression that the "courtesy ride" was to some other locations to be questioned. I've since realized that it was merely a courtesy ride...as to what destination, that was not included.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I hope the “absolutely a possibility” means they have info she may be alive, I pray.

Only thing I could read into that is the perp is a loon who is holding her against her will. She has been missing three weeks! What is the end result of that? Do criminals ever think things through?

 

[Inthedetails]

I think this case will be a long ride. He has lawyered up and I can understand getting a lawyer. But I would be one who would ask that the lawyer go with me when I am answering questions, and then be completely forthcoming. No doubt he doesn't care where she is which makes him look guilty. In my opinion.

We've been shocked or sickened by spouses/significant others who pretend to care when they are in fact guilty. But....this fiance doesn't seem to care at all. I don't recall ever seeing someone who displays such a cold demeanor about a missing person.

Very odd.

jmo

 

[Snow Flower]

There are so many unknowns in this case. The house is in his mothers name. Does he live there with her or did she buy it for him? Does he have a job? I haven’t seen anywhere with proof they split. Did I miss that? It does make sense that they were because what engaged couple doesn’t spend holidays together? The fact that he is not looking for her makes me wonder how much he loves her. I would be frantic and most of these guys at least pretend to be. Interesting case!

 

[Damselfish]

I can see your point about the baby being leverage. I am sure that she is indeed possible leverage and having him bring her to the station for the questioning gives a certain edge to the police. I would hope the daughter is not inside the interrogation room during the questioning as this is not a great environment for the child OR for the interrogator. Another issue would be the presence of the child during the questioning. As a military trained Interrogator/CI with now a Psychologist, I know it is never wise to have more than one person in the room to be questioned though not uncommon for two people DOING the questioning depending on the demeanor of the person being questioned a the needs of both interrogator and person being questioned. I can see they might have the child outside the questioning room with a competent person watching her. There is usually a room, often with toys and books set aside for this. PF would know the child was safe and very close by, but he would be more able to respond to the questioning instead of focusing on the child in the room. In order to get a good response, the person being questioned should not have extra distraction and a toddler/infant is a HUGE distraction!

Exactly... I personally have never been in an interview where a minor was involved, but I am generally aware of the protocol . That being said, my post was meant to point out the possible logic for allowing the father to bring the child with him. I was also under the impression that the "courtesy ride" was to some other locations to be questioned. I've since realized that it was merely a courtesy ride...as to what destination, that was not included.