CO - Possible Serial Shooter Has Colorado Drivers on Edge #2

[margarita25]

I am just having a hard time understanding what sort of "road debris" would/could come sideways at a car with enough force to shatter a window? The chances of random flying debris hitting a side window are very remote. So if there is enough road debris flying around out there on this stretch of road(s) that it has broken this many windows, then just think about how much debris is flying around that ISN"T hitting windows. Our vehicles should be getting pummeled with debris, bikers, road workers, etc should be getting mowed down left and right, road signs, businesses would have dings from this debris. No...... this is targeted.

Great point, PW.

 

[margarita25]

A Firearms / Ballistics Tutorial:
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNBLST.html

Eta: a lot of information at this link, way over my head.

 

[margarita25]

I googled "how does a bullet shatter glass" and came across an infinite number of articles, blogs, videos, books...there really is a wealth of information out there on the subject...way over my head. Here's an example:



Source:

 

[margarita25]

Yeah, all way over my head...I'll have to leave this to the experts :biggrin:

Wallner lines, crack velocity and mechanisms of crack nucleation and growth in a brittle bulk metallic glass:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359645414005424

"Wallner lines, which result from the interaction between the propagating crack front and shear waves emanating from a secondary source, were observed on the fracture surface and geometric analysis of them indicates that the maximum crack velocity is ∼800 m s−1, which corresponds to ∼0.32 times the shear wave speed. Fractography reveals that the sharp crack nucleation at the notch tip occurs at the mid-section of the specimens with the observation of flat and half-penny-shaped cracks. On this basis, we conclude that the crack initiation in brittle BMGs is stress-controlled and occurs through hydrostatic stress-assisted cavity nucleation ahead of the notch tip. High magnification scanning electron and atomic force microscopies of the dynamic crack growth regions reveal highly organized, nanoscale periodic patterns with a spacing of ∼79 nm. Juxtaposition of the crack velocity with this spacing suggests that the crack takes ∼10−10 s for peak-to-peak propagation. This, and the estimated adiabatic temperature rise ahead of the propagating crack tip that suggests local softening, is utilized to critically discuss possible causes for the nanocorrugation formation. Taylor’s fluid meniscus instability is unequivocally ruled out. Then, two other possible mechanisms, viz. (a) crack tip blunting and resharpening through nanovoid nucleation and growth ahead of the crack tip and eventual coalescence, and (b) dynamic oscillation of the crack in a thin slab of softened zone ahead of the crack-tip, are critically discussed."

(Did everybody get all that? :biggrin: LOL)

(Eta: I think we should call this guy, lol..he'll get to the bottom of it. :biggrin

Eta: This article suddenly made me feel really stupid. I barely understand a word heehee)

 

[Hatfield]

So, upstream I posted a possibly O/T article about CDOT launching their blimp over 1-25 in Denver to "monitor traffic"...its seems they had technical difficulties yesterday so are relaunching today.

Upstream searchingirl had mentioned the possibility of rock debris / slides with the weather...well, it seems this is what CDOT and the blimp are looking at (no mention of relation to shootings/shatterings)...I do not think the shatterings are near areas where rocks can slide down, right? (canyons, etc)...but mentioning this fwiw.

"CDOT is testing an aerostat made by SkySentry LLC in Colorado Springs.

The company, founded in 2003, has flown its aerostats for CDOT to take pictures of the rocks above the state's highways. The pictures are reviewed to find areas where the rocks may have shifted and increased the chance of a rock slide, said retired Col. Charlie Lambert, SkySentry's president and CEO.


The launch will take place at 1:15 p.m."

http://www.9news.com/story/news/loc...-blimp-over-i-25-to-monitor-traffic/28708905/

This is really interesting and also very coincidental.

Wouldnt it be humerous (NOT) if the device they are using the blimp to monitor for rock slides was causing rocks to jar loose from the mountain walls and that is what is crashing into the side windows ? LOL

If it had anything to do with something like that, I suppose we would expect to have a mountain wall alongside of each car that was struck.

 

[Hatfield]

Brainstorming, crazy idea, but what about some sort of high powered laser? I remember making a post in the Malaysian Airliner thread about a military laser that can be fired from a ship that "disintegrates" its target. Maybe there's a mini-version?

One thing that is important imo / requires further examination is the size of the glass shards, as posted in various photos in thread 1.

That is good thinking outside the box. I am not sure a typical perp could get his hands on a laser powerful enough to break glass, but the symptoms the cars are experiencing could match something like that. Good thinking.

I am leaning towards homemade exploding bullets because they didnt sound all that difficult to make and I could envision a perp wanting to experiment and use something like that.

I am a longtime hunter and have experience with multiple weapons and I would never fool with bullets like that. But I have to admit that I have thought about them in the past. Because when target practicing, it sometimes is fun to shoot at non-traditional targets that blow apart rather than just paper targets. Things like Cans and Gallon Jugs of water. Its quite fun to see the explosive force of hitting targets like that. So it has crossed my mind in the past about exploding bullets, but they are just too dangerous and I think illegal.

All a perp would have to do is either use a hollow point bullet and fill with the material that explodes and then cover with wax on the end so it doesnt fall out. But again very dangerous which is why they are illegal. Some even use mercury and chemicals like Pyrex which is basically C4 plastic explosives. You could easily blow yourself up before the bullet even left the gun. LOL

I keep thinking the perp is using something like that because the victims in the cars dont find anything, and it seems to me something is exploding the second it hits the window and also disintegrating at the same time.

Others could be right too that the sounds they heard were the perp(s) gun but you would think they would have spotted the perp if they were able to hear his gun. Like in the car next to them or something.

 

[Hatfield]

Here's the way I'm understanding the bullet hole question. When a solid bullet passes thru a normal piece of regular house window glass, it pushes some of the glass out in front of it, powdering it, and some to the sides, pushing out glass shards and leaving a hole and little cracks. (Not sure how that would work with a frangible bullet).

But that is with 'normal' glass. The tempered glass usually used in side and rear windows, however, behaves differently. It manufacturing process locks surface stress energy into the glass. That energy is there, held in by the window's smooth surfaces, just waiting for a little crack to release itself, explosively, and shatter. When a bullet hits it, it powders the glass around the tip of the bullet, and the released stress energy causes much or all of the remaining glass to break into little squared off pieces. No bullet hole. My guess is that a frangible bullet would have the same effect on tempered glass.

A front car window, on the other hand, is made of laminated glass, which is not under high stress. A solid bullet will typically leave a spidery hole in it. I don't know what a frangible bullet would do to it.

You nailed it. Thanks.

This is exactly how I expect car glass to break with bullets hitting it.

Just like you said, the front windshield is made of a lamenated glass to not shatter in little bits because it is a safety thing for drivers that it doesnt do that to prevent glass pieces in your eye, etc. So windshields stay in tact as 1 large piece and a bullet would make a hole through it typically.

Side windows shatter into those little pieces on purpose. They are made that way as a safety feature so that you dont have huge sharp chunks that can cut you. So the whole window just falls apart into tiny small pieces whenever the glass is struck by something strong enough, like a bullet.

Most all normal bullets would be powerful enough to break glass in cars unless the velocity is abnormally low or something along those lines.

Like some cheap BB guns may only bounce off good strong car glass. Where other more powerful C02 type BB/Pellet guns could be enough to shatter side car windows and may not penetrate, where really strong pellet guns could penetrate.

Pellets are generally more dangerous than BBs because the pellets are heavier made of lead (like a small bullet). BBs are usually a lighter copper brass colored and dont end up with the force of a pellet. BBs also fly irregularly due to their round shape where pellets travel more like a normal bullet. Thus more velocity.

 

[Hatfield]

One other interesting thing about bullet holes is that you can tell the direction of the bullet so long as the material that was shot stayed together. This is because a bullet will create a smaller hole at point of impact and a much larger hole at point of exit. So you know which direction the bullet went through something.

Like if you ever shot a bullet at a piece of wood. The side that the bullet hit would have a smaller hole and where the bullet left could be quiet large with a lot of the wood splintering outwards.

The reason this happens with bullets is the bullet if made of lead will deform on contact and as the bullet changes its shape into a more flattened larger shape, it begins to carry material of the object it is hitting with it and so by the time it leaves the object, the bullet is usually much wider diameter than when it entered the object.
As well as it having to push out pieces of broken material with it out the back.

 

[Foxfire]

Who Knew?

INVESTIGATIONS
Type of Glass in Your Car's Windows Could Change Escape Plan

May 6, 2013 - The EPGAA estimates that 12 percent of new cars built in 2013 will have laminated glass on the side front windows. By 2018, it will be 20 percent.
http://www.nbcdfw.com/investigation...ndows-Could-Change-Escape-Plan-206353031.html

Jun 10, 2014 - Laminated side glass gives you more opportunities to repair auto ... For several decades, tempered glass has been used for side windows on vehicles. ... Here is a partial list of the 2013 and newer autos currently using laminated side glass:
http://glasweld.com/automotive-laminated-side-glass-repair-faqs/

 

[Hatfield]

Who Knew?

INVESTIGATIONS
Type of Glass in Your Car's Windows Could Change Escape Plan

May 6, 2013 - The EPGAA estimates that 12 percent of new cars built in 2013 will have laminated glass on the side front windows. By 2018, it will be 20 percent.
http://www.nbcdfw.com/investigation...ndows-Could-Change-Escape-Plan-206353031.html

Jun 10, 2014 - Laminated side glass gives you more opportunities to repair auto ... For several decades, tempered glass has been used for side windows on vehicles. ... Here is a partial list of the 2013 and newer autos currently using laminated side glass:
http://glasweld.com/automotive-laminated-side-glass-repair-faqs/

Wow. Thanks Foxfire.

I had no idea about that. I wonder if that would cause a serious problem if you ended up in a lake and had to get out of the side window. Like the 2 boys from the Rocklahoma concert died recently by driving into a lake by accident.

I actually have one of the little hammers designed to break car glass to escape out my window but if my car has that type of glass, I wonder if I could even break it.

I am not sure its such a good idea for the side windows.

 

[Foxfire]

Wow. Thanks Foxfire.

I had no idea about that. I wonder if that would cause a serious problem if you ended up in a lake and had to get out of the side window. Like the 2 boys from the Rocklahoma concert died recently by driving into a lake by accident.

I actually have one of the little hammers designed to break car glass to escape out my window but if my car has that type of glass, I wonder if I could even break it.

I am not sure its such a good idea for the side windows.

Hatfield, I posted a link in a prior comment concerning: INVESTIGATIONS
Type of Glass in Your Car's Windows Could Change Escape Plan, as an FYI for safety. I wasn't aware of the change either.. Watch the following video @ link:
http://www.nbcdfw.com/investigation...ndows-Could-Change-Escape-Plan-206353031.html

 

[margarita25]

One other interesting thing about bullet holes is that you can tell the direction of the bullet so long as the material that was shot stayed together. This is because a bullet will create a smaller hole at point of impact and a much larger hole at point of exit. So you know which direction the bullet went through something.

Like if you ever shot a bullet at a piece of wood. The side that the bullet hit would have a smaller hole and where the bullet left could be quiet large with a lot of the wood splintering outwards.

The reason this happens with bullets is the bullet if made of lead will deform on contact and as the bullet changes its shape into a more flattened larger shape, it begins to carry material of the object it is hitting with it and so by the time it leaves the object, the bullet is usually much wider diameter than when it entered the object.
As well as it having to push out pieces of broken material with it out the back.

I learn something new here every day. Interesting stuff. Great explanation! (I guess I never examined those milk jug carcasses too closely that we shot at back in the day, which by the way were plastic.)

 

[FindHG]

I learn something new here every day. Interesting stuff. Great explanation! (I guess I never examined those milk jug carcasses too closely that we shot at back in the day, which by the way were plastic.)

milk jugs, hmmm. That's interesting for a number of reasons.

 

[margarita25]

milk jugs, hmmm. That's interesting for a number of reasons.

It is? Why?

 

[FindHG]

It is? Why?

Could this all be part of the thrill for this creep, having everyone guessing? There are those stupid self made videos of kids throwing plastic milk jugs in grocery stores, which I'll spare you. Did he do it once, see the feedback and like it, and kept upping the ante, then changing the game because he likes to keep people guessing? This is why the whole contemporary whiff of gamer brain, sensation seeking, psychopathy in killing random vulnerable people, makes me think it is somehow recorded by the perp, for thrills. Then there's that other reason we don't need to get into.

 

[margarita25]

(I was viewing some old cases today, and from a forensic perspective I thought to myself, wow, that's really amazing that they were able to do THAT...I'm hoping its the same way here. With the FBI Task Force, other agencies involved, state of the art computer technology, forensics...surely they will find something somewhere. They have to...

And as Foxfire said, public awareness, the public, hopefully the word is really getting out and more eyes and ears will be on deck around here...

Now, with that being said, it reminds me of the BP Oil Spill...that nightmare went on for a long time, it went on so long Kevin Costner was even sending in ideas, lol (remember that?).

The point of all this, I'm going to have faith in LE, and SCIENCE. Windshield Fractometry (is that the word lol) and all that stuff to apprehend the individual(s). Trying to remain optimistic, but goodness, tick tock, it's a little stressful around here to say the least! Get this guy, hurry!)

eta: It's fractography:
Fractography is the study of the fracture surfaces of materials.Fractographic methods are routinely used to determine the cause of failure in engineering structures, especially in product failure and the practice of forensic engineering or failure analysis.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractography)

 

[FindHG]

I completely agree on every point, magz, but you lost me on the Kevin Costner, never heard of that? The perp seems to be picking his hits by location and timing, as he's still unknown, based on the time he has most comfortably available, and based on the spread sheet information, if any of those shattering incidents are linked, then the perp moves from south to north, so he may live southwest it seems to me.

 

[margarita25]

I completely agree on every point, but you lost me on the Kevin Costner, never heard of that?

( http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/kevin-costner-machine-bp-oil-clean/story?id=10689928 )

 

[FindHG]

( http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/kevin-costner-machine-bp-oil-clean/story?id=10689928 )

Oh, yes, forgot about that. Maybe he should consider sleuthing. As celebrity's go, Brad Pitt put a lot into helping build these very modern houses in New Orleans.

http://assets.inhabitat.com/wp-cont.../Brad-Pitt-Make-It-Right-Gehry-House-Lead.jpg


The potential professions mentioned by zap and other posters, would it be useful to make a list of them? Not an actor, for sure.

 

[Theforeigner]

I am just having a hard time understanding what sort of "road debris" would/could come sideways at a car with enough force to shatter a window? The chances of random flying debris hitting a side window are very remote. So if there is enough road debris flying around out there on this stretch of road(s) that it has broken this many windows, then just think about how much debris is flying around that ISN"T hitting windows. Our vehicles should be getting pummeled with debris, bikers, road workers, etc should be getting mowed down left and right, road signs, businesses would have dings from this debris. No...... this is targeted.

IMHO police are just trying to do some; damage control, avoid panic, buy some time to try solve the case etc.