Interesting, so, if I have it correctly, he worked, did time, and who knows what else in NOCO, or where else, so some people may know things about him or remember him through these associations? The non-existent 'gym room and basketball court' may be an example of the kind of marketing he may have done with StarTek's brand pushes as well? Thank you so much for all your great work y'all.
CO - Possible Serial Shooter Has Colorado Drivers on Edge #2
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Interesting, so, if I have it correctly, he worked, did time, and who knows what else in NOCO, or where else, so some people may know things about him or remember him through these associations? The non-existent 'gym room and basketball court' may be an example of the kind of marketing he may have done with StarTek's brand pushes as well? Thank you so much for all your great work y'all.
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That post in praise of Timberleaf Apartments was long after his career at StarTek, and I very much doubt that the company would let him post under his own name.
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Thank you all, and especially SugarQueen, for helping with feedback and additions for the Scheiern timeline I'd posted earlier. I've now revised it, and put it into a spreadsheet along with its source links. Here's a link to the spreadsheet.
-- 6/28/15 Grandparents found dead.
-- 6/25/15 Crashed car, hospitalized in Valencia till arrested.
-- 6/24 or 6/25 2015. Killed his grandparents. Allegedly. Per the criminal complaint.
-- 5/5/15 Posts to FB, addressing his "family in Ft. Lupon" and asks them not to 'like' his post.
-- 5/4/15 Posts for a Colorado gun class. It wasn't clear where he was when he made the post.
-- ??/??/15 Signs up to walk in a charity walk in Denver scheduled for 7/7/15. Charity walk page.
-- ~2015 ? "Neighbors say that he lived with his grandparents from time to time".
-- ~ 2015 ? According to neighbors, Nathaniel Scheiern had been living at the home for about two months but had not been seen recently.
-- ~12/2014. Moves to Glendale (?) "Their grandson had moved in about seven months ago, [neighbor] H***** K****** said [on 6/29/15]
-- 9/28/14. Posts review of Timberleaf Apts. Praises gym room and basketball court. Another poster responds " there is no weight room or b-ball court that I know of...".
-- ~6/2014 Moves to Glendale (?). "A friend of the family told KTLA that the couple took in [NS] their grandson because he was “troubled” about a year ago."
-- 3/4/14. Posts to Google+ a video of him getting "*advertiser censored** COPS" tatooed to his calves. View of his face. No location info.
-- 01/2013 - 10/2013. In jail. "He served almost a year in jail beginning 01/2013 and was released in 10/2013 for aggravated assault."
-- 11/28/12 Worked at StarTek, a 'call center' operation (link 1). A picture of him at a company party was posted to StarTek Greeley's FB page on 11/28/12 (link 2).
-- 2006 and 2007. Arrested. "According to my info NS was first arrested in CO in 2006, again in 2007, and then in 2013."
-- 6/28/15 Grandparents found dead.
-- 6/25/15 Crashed car, hospitalized in Valencia till arrested.
-- 6/24 or 6/25 2015. Killed his grandparents. Allegedly. Per the criminal complaint.
-- 5/5/15 Posts to FB, addressing his "family in Ft. Lupon" and asks them not to 'like' his post.
-- 5/4/15 Posts for a Colorado gun class. It wasn't clear where he was when he made the post.
-- ??/??/15 Signs up to walk in a charity walk in Denver scheduled for 7/7/15. Charity walk page.
-- ~2015 ? "Neighbors say that he lived with his grandparents from time to time".
-- ~ 2015 ? According to neighbors, Nathaniel Scheiern had been living at the home for about two months but had not been seen recently.
-- ~12/2014. Moves to Glendale (?) "Their grandson had moved in about seven months ago, [neighbor] H***** K****** said [on 6/29/15]
-- 9/28/14. Posts review of Timberleaf Apts. Praises gym room and basketball court. Another poster responds " there is no weight room or b-ball court that I know of...".
-- ~6/2014 Moves to Glendale (?). "A friend of the family told KTLA that the couple took in [NS] their grandson because he was “troubled” about a year ago."
-- 3/4/14. Posts to Google+ a video of him getting "*advertiser censored** COPS" tatooed to his calves. View of his face. No location info.
-- 01/2013 - 10/2013. In jail. "He served almost a year in jail beginning 01/2013 and was released in 10/2013 for aggravated assault."
-- 11/28/12 Worked at StarTek, a 'call center' operation (link 1). A picture of him at a company party was posted to StarTek Greeley's FB page on 11/28/12 (link 2).
-- 2006 and 2007. Arrested. "According to my info NS was first arrested in CO in 2006, again in 2007, and then in 2013."
Forest officials cracking down on illegal shooting
Ryan Haarer, 9NEWS/KUSA.com
10:10 pm mdt, July 8 '15 reports on location with telling graphics as well
"The death of 60-year-old Glenn Martin in pike National Forest last week was the first of it's kind in recent history."
[...]
The National Forest Service recorded 324 shooting violations last year. Compare that to 65 the year before.
[... ]
These numbers are only for the 230,000-acre Pikes Peak Ranger District where Martin was struck. The jump in violations is because the National Forest Service implemented a recreational shooting ban last year on Mount Herman and Rampart Range, where Martin and his family were camping last week.
[...Erin Connelly, forest supervisor, stresses]
"banning shooting in one area only pushes recreational shooters into another. She and other land managers are working on a better long-term fix. Her plan is three-fold: engineering, education, enforcement."
[...]
"The entire 3.1 million acres of Pike and San Isabel National Forest is patrolled by three Forest Service law enforcement officers. The six counties the forest touches also contribute several officers."
[...]
Ryan Haarer, 9NEWS/KUSA.com
10:10 pm mdt, July 8 '15 reports on location with telling graphics as well
"The death of 60-year-old Glenn Martin in pike National Forest last week was the first of it's kind in recent history."
[...]
The National Forest Service recorded 324 shooting violations last year. Compare that to 65 the year before.
[... ]
These numbers are only for the 230,000-acre Pikes Peak Ranger District where Martin was struck. The jump in violations is because the National Forest Service implemented a recreational shooting ban last year on Mount Herman and Rampart Range, where Martin and his family were camping last week.
[...Erin Connelly, forest supervisor, stresses]
"banning shooting in one area only pushes recreational shooters into another. She and other land managers are working on a better long-term fix. Her plan is three-fold: engineering, education, enforcement."
[...]
"The entire 3.1 million acres of Pike and San Isabel National Forest is patrolled by three Forest Service law enforcement officers. The six counties the forest touches also contribute several officers."
[...]
Referenced here from original source
with attachments and more info on this link:Deadly shooting in Pike National Forest creates gun debate
By Lance Benzel and Billie Stanton Anleu, The Gazatte
July 8, 2015 at 5:24 pm
with attachments and more info on this link:Deadly shooting in Pike National Forest creates gun debate
By Lance Benzel and Billie Stanton Anleu, The Gazatte
July 8, 2015 at 5:24 pm
Hatfield
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Yea. I think we are all in agreement that the campsite shooting is not related to the NOCO shooter. Mainly because of the family hearing shots prior to him being struck which indicated someone in the area doing target practicing or something.
I think it was good discussion though to be sure we at least considered it. Some of the discussion helped us learn about bullet trajectories and distances which can help when discussing the other NOCO shootings.
Regarding the NOCO shooter, do we think he has stopped?
Would that be a sign that maybe the grandparent slayer is our guy?
I think it is good if we keep an eye out for anymore possible NOCO shootings or window shatterings. If we see that they have all but stopped and if we see they have stopped around his arrest then LE may have their guy.
If he is connected to the NOCO shootings in anyway, I think more information would be need to confirm it.
It's hard to fit a piece in a puzzle when you don't have any idea about how the other pieces fit, which may tell you something about how the information needs to be cleaned up and once there's more information about him.
Because there is such conflicting trends to the information, I worry that he is not working alone, so he has people creating distractions, but this is way way over thinking it, on my part, in one yet unconfirmed direction I'd be relieved to know is unfounded.
Hatfield
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Great Points.
We cant let our guard down just yet. Like you said even if he is involved he may not be working alone.
We will just have to keep a careful eye out for any news about the following
-Any more new shootings or window shatterings that come up
-Any additional information that LE gives us about the orange truck
-Any additional information that LE gives us about the NOCO shooter or any of the window shatterings
-Any new information we can learn about the grandparent slayer
-Any new arrests of anyone that we suspect may have a tie to this.
Like if we see an arrest of someone with an illegal weapon like a silencer or a scoped rifle being in a place he was not supposed to be.
margarita25
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Gun testing offered to Rainbow Falls Park shooters in Glenn Martin death investigation
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...-shooters-in-glenn-martin-death-investigation
"DOUGLAS COUNTY, Colo. - The Douglas County Sheriff’s Office is offering to test firearms of people who were shooting in Rainbow Falls Park last Friday."
Snip
"The Douglas County Sheriff's Office is currently working to exclude firearms that were not involved in the shooting death of Glenn Martin," deputies said. "We recognize that there were numerous people shooting in the park on July third, many of whom may be worried the fatal shot could have come from their firearm."
Deputies said if you're worried the bullet came from your firearm, you can have it tested by calling the DCSO Major Tip Line at 303-660-7579."
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...-shooters-in-glenn-martin-death-investigation
"DOUGLAS COUNTY, Colo. - The Douglas County Sheriff’s Office is offering to test firearms of people who were shooting in Rainbow Falls Park last Friday."
Snip
"The Douglas County Sheriff's Office is currently working to exclude firearms that were not involved in the shooting death of Glenn Martin," deputies said. "We recognize that there were numerous people shooting in the park on July third, many of whom may be worried the fatal shot could have come from their firearm."
Deputies said if you're worried the bullet came from your firearm, you can have it tested by calling the DCSO Major Tip Line at 303-660-7579."
'Just an FYI while we are waiting for something to break in this case'.
Myth: Serial killers are only motivated by sex.
All serial murders are not sexually-based. There are many other motivations for serial murders including anger, thrill, financial gain, and attention seeking.
• In the Washington, D.C. area serial sniper case, John Allen Muhammad, a former U.S. Army Staff Sergeant, and Lee Boyd Malvo killed primarily for anger and thrill motivations.
_____________
Myth: All serial murderers travel and operate interstate.
Most serial killers have very defined geographic areas of operation. They conduct their killings within comfort zones that are often defined by an anchor point (e.g. place of residence, employment, or residence of a relative). Serial murderers will, at times, spiral their activities outside of their comfort zone, when their confidence has grown through experience or to avoid detection.
__________________________
Myth: Serial killers cannot stop killing.
It has been widely believed that once serial killers start killing, they cannot stop. There are, however, some serial killers who stop murdering altogether before being caught. In these instances, there are events or circumstances in offenders’ lives that inhibit them from pursuing more victims. These can include increased participation in family activities, sexual substitution, and other diversions.
_____________________________
Myth: Serial killers want to get caught.
Offenders committing a crime for the first time are inexperienced. They gain experience and confidence with each new offense, eventually succeeding with few mistakes or problems.
While most serial killers plan their offenses more thoroughly than other criminals, the learning curve is still very steep. They must select, target, approach, control, and dispose of their victims. The logistics involved in committing a murder and disposing of the body can become very complex, especially when there are multiple sites involved.
As serial killers continue to offend without being captured, they can become empowered, feeling they will never be identified. As the series continues, the killers may begin to take shortcuts when committing their crimes. This often causes the killers to take more chances, leading to identification by law enforcement. It is not that serial killers want to get caught; they feel that they can’t get caught.
FBI - Serial Murder
https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder
Myth: Serial killers are only motivated by sex.
All serial murders are not sexually-based. There are many other motivations for serial murders including anger, thrill, financial gain, and attention seeking.
• In the Washington, D.C. area serial sniper case, John Allen Muhammad, a former U.S. Army Staff Sergeant, and Lee Boyd Malvo killed primarily for anger and thrill motivations.
_____________
Myth: All serial murderers travel and operate interstate.
Most serial killers have very defined geographic areas of operation. They conduct their killings within comfort zones that are often defined by an anchor point (e.g. place of residence, employment, or residence of a relative). Serial murderers will, at times, spiral their activities outside of their comfort zone, when their confidence has grown through experience or to avoid detection.
__________________________
Myth: Serial killers cannot stop killing.
It has been widely believed that once serial killers start killing, they cannot stop. There are, however, some serial killers who stop murdering altogether before being caught. In these instances, there are events or circumstances in offenders’ lives that inhibit them from pursuing more victims. These can include increased participation in family activities, sexual substitution, and other diversions.
_____________________________
Myth: Serial killers want to get caught.
Offenders committing a crime for the first time are inexperienced. They gain experience and confidence with each new offense, eventually succeeding with few mistakes or problems.
While most serial killers plan their offenses more thoroughly than other criminals, the learning curve is still very steep. They must select, target, approach, control, and dispose of their victims. The logistics involved in committing a murder and disposing of the body can become very complex, especially when there are multiple sites involved.
As serial killers continue to offend without being captured, they can become empowered, feeling they will never be identified. As the series continues, the killers may begin to take shortcuts when committing their crimes. This often causes the killers to take more chances, leading to identification by law enforcement. It is not that serial killers want to get caught; they feel that they can’t get caught.
FBI - Serial Murder
https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder
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I got NS's arrest record summary in Weld County. It reports arrests involving Weld County Jail bookings, including ones by local PD outfits.
-- arrested:07/28/08 at 15:26 by WELD CSO for criminal mischief, HOLD FOR ANOTHER AGENCY / WRIT DOC, and E HARASSMENT.
-- arrested: 02/09/07 at 18:06 Arresting Agency: FORT LUPTON, for PAROLE VIOLATION
-- arrested: 07/24/06 by WELD CSO for BURGLARY SECOND DEGREE and HOLD FOR ANOTHER AGENCY
There is no record there of his January 2013 arrest. Booked somewhere else maybe? Some counties, like Weld Co., offer that information going back a number of years, but most only offer the most recent week's worth on line, if that. The Colorado Bureau of Investigation offers arrest records statewide for a small fee via credit card, and I'd like to run a query for NS. Can anyone see any downside to providing that information in connection with a search for NS' records?
Edited to add, quoting Weld Co. arrest records site:
"DISCLAIMER : The arrest records available through this website are public information. Any indication of an arrest does not mean the individual identified has been convicted of a crime. All persons arrested are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. "
-- arrested:07/28/08 at 15:26 by WELD CSO for criminal mischief, HOLD FOR ANOTHER AGENCY / WRIT DOC, and E HARASSMENT.
-- arrested: 02/09/07 at 18:06 Arresting Agency: FORT LUPTON, for PAROLE VIOLATION
-- arrested: 07/24/06 by WELD CSO for BURGLARY SECOND DEGREE and HOLD FOR ANOTHER AGENCY
There is no record there of his January 2013 arrest. Booked somewhere else maybe? Some counties, like Weld Co., offer that information going back a number of years, but most only offer the most recent week's worth on line, if that. The Colorado Bureau of Investigation offers arrest records statewide for a small fee via credit card, and I'd like to run a query for NS. Can anyone see any downside to providing that information in connection with a search for NS' records?
Edited to add, quoting Weld Co. arrest records site:
"DISCLAIMER : The arrest records available through this website are public information. Any indication of an arrest does not mean the individual identified has been convicted of a crime. All persons arrested are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. "
SugarQueen
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The 2013 arrest was in Jefferson County I believe. I wish we knew more about the location and who he assaulted. I think anything we can find out about his arrests is a good thing.
Forager
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I noticed this early (7/1/15) comment by the coroner involved in the Scheiern autopsies:
"Autopsies conducted on an elderly couple murdered in their Glendale home showed both had multiple injuries, but decomposition of the bodies prevented pinpointing the cause of death.
Assistant Coroner Chief Ed Winter said the results of toxicology tests are needed to determine how Verna Irene Scheiern, 82, and her 77-year-old husband, William Scheiern, were killed. The results take several weeks."
From:
Autopsies on murdered Glendale grandparents fail to pinpoint cause of death
HILLARY JACKSON, MyNewsLA, JULY 1, 2015
Am I wrong to feel lied to?
"Autopsies conducted on an elderly couple murdered in their Glendale home showed both had multiple injuries, but decomposition of the bodies prevented pinpointing the cause of death.
Assistant Coroner Chief Ed Winter said the results of toxicology tests are needed to determine how Verna Irene Scheiern, 82, and her 77-year-old husband, William Scheiern, were killed. The results take several weeks."
From:
Autopsies on murdered Glendale grandparents fail to pinpoint cause of death
HILLARY JACKSON, MyNewsLA, JULY 1, 2015
Am I wrong to feel lied to?
Probably, you shouldn't feel that way. It seems they may have wanted to rule out their having been subdued through toxicology prior to the gruesome use of an ax, especially in a capital case. More experienced WSers may could probably give you a better idea though, than I.
I'm not sold on the idea of NS as our sniper; doesn't compute for me. He just seems like a run-of-the-mill dirtbag murderer to me, except perhaps he seems even more stupid than is usual lol. I've always pictured the sniper to be older, somewhat of a loner, and either a farmer, veteran, or mechanic. For me, NS just doesn't fit.
Hatfield
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Thanks so much for chiming in.
It is what makes WS so great is we need everyone's opinion to help keep all possibilities open until the right perp(s) can be identified. It helps keep us all in check and helps to prevent tunnel vision.
This case is really tough one and very interesting. I feel bad for the locals because I lived near the DC sniper case at the time that was going on and I remember the fear it caused.
I wish this case can be solved more quickly to help people in the area not have to worry anymore. This case has been going on too long already.
It is tough for us because we dont have a lot of the tools that LE has and its not like we can order an investigator to go out and question someone or check something for us. So we are limited in the things we can do and that makes a lot of these cases seem to hit dead ends for us until we get another bread crumb somehow.
Thanks to everyone here who has provided input and all the hard work in getting as far as we have. It is quite amazing actually to know as much information as we have already. The maps and information have been very helpful.
Two arrested after high-speed chase, theft at Walmart
Katie de la Rosa, 9NEWS/KUSA
6:34 pm mdt, July 9 '15
"The witness who reported the incident followed the suspects onto northbound I-25, where a deputy eventually located and followed them as they exited on Prospect Road."
Denver authorities seek SUV that rammed police cruiser, fled
Denver police say the collision happened about 4:15 a.m.
By Jesse Paul, The Denver Post,
updated about 3 hrs ago
note map
"officers were responding to reports of a suspicious vehicle."
National Forest Service: Shooting on campgrounds is illegal
By Lena Howland, KOAA/ NEWS 5 Investigates
Jul 10 '15, 12:50 am edt
The Douglas County Sheriff's Office says they have information that numerous people may have been doing recreation shooting in the Pike National Forest last Friday. They are asking people to come forward so they can test their weapons. The tip line to call is 303-660-7579.
Douglas County Sheriff's Office wants to rule out guns that didn't kill camper in Pike National Forest
By Kassondra Cloos, The Gazette,
July 10 '15
Sgt. Ron Hanavan, spokesman for the Douglas County Sheriff's Office, appreciates the public's help with tips so far, said
"Deputies aren't concerned with nabbing everyone who may admit they were target shooting in the area,... Truly, he said, they're concerned with finding out what happened and who is responsible for Martin's death."
[...]
"If an individual was there," ... "They're going to get peace of mind out of it."
[... they hope]
"people will want to clear their consciences and know, without a doubt, they are not at fault."
Katie de la Rosa, 9NEWS/KUSA
6:34 pm mdt, July 9 '15
"The witness who reported the incident followed the suspects onto northbound I-25, where a deputy eventually located and followed them as they exited on Prospect Road."
Denver authorities seek SUV that rammed police cruiser, fled
Denver police say the collision happened about 4:15 a.m.
By Jesse Paul, The Denver Post,
updated about 3 hrs ago
note map
"officers were responding to reports of a suspicious vehicle."
National Forest Service: Shooting on campgrounds is illegal
By Lena Howland, KOAA/ NEWS 5 Investigates
Jul 10 '15, 12:50 am edt
The Douglas County Sheriff's Office says they have information that numerous people may have been doing recreation shooting in the Pike National Forest last Friday. They are asking people to come forward so they can test their weapons. The tip line to call is 303-660-7579.
Douglas County Sheriff's Office wants to rule out guns that didn't kill camper in Pike National Forest
By Kassondra Cloos, The Gazette,
July 10 '15
Sgt. Ron Hanavan, spokesman for the Douglas County Sheriff's Office, appreciates the public's help with tips so far, said
"Deputies aren't concerned with nabbing everyone who may admit they were target shooting in the area,... Truly, he said, they're concerned with finding out what happened and who is responsible for Martin's death."
[...]
"If an individual was there," ... "They're going to get peace of mind out of it."
[... they hope]
"people will want to clear their consciences and know, without a doubt, they are not at fault."
Mrscg, although I respectfully disagree, I honor and respect your opinion.. As I've said many times before, 'never ever mis-underestimate a psychopath.' They are very creative, calculating, deflective, and manipulative creatures. Analogous to chameleons, they are very cagey and elusive and will fool even the most experienced and seasoned homicide investigators.
There are many reasons why I suspect that NS is likely the NOCO Sniper. Imo, NS had the means , motive, and opportunity. When the NOCO Sniper Task Force released the VOI, NS felt threatened. He was no longer the hunter, but became the hunted; the prey. The NOCO random shootings ceased. He went into survival mode by placing 1,000 miles of distance between himself and the investigation. His Christian grandparents who had enabled him for years, had likely connected the dots and likely threatened to or did expose his evil other self to the authorities.
Mrscg, an axe is not the usual weapon of choice for killing your grandparents by a run-of-the-mill dirt bag murderer.. This was a savage ritual killing..jmo
Nathaniel Scheiern is not your run-of-the-mill dirtbag murderer. He is an ISIS jihadist lone wolf; 'a soldier on a perpetual mission, imo. Not the first, last or only...
A quasi-religious psychiatrist I knew said they were born without
souls. A philosopher long ago came to literally believe that there
are people in this world who are actually not really human beings,
but who absolutely emulate the real thing and are basically
impossible to recognize as non-human.
I think he was trying to explain the psychopath.
Blame the brain: Psychopaths are wired differently
http://www.zdnet.com/article/blame-the-brain-psychopaths-are-wired-differently/
Well said Hatfield..
Agreed, well said Hatfield and Foxfire, and respect and honor for mrscg. Thank you all for sharing it all. I think you may all be right, to a large extent, if there is more than one person involved with the roadside shatterings or shooting incidents.
IIRC, studying Abnormal Psych, not in any depth, just core classes, but learning that to recognize the difference was seeing the part of the behavior that made me think, 'now, why would they go do that?', kind of. I learned through experience however to not ask that question when ppl did horrible things around me and see evil or deviance for what it was, easy as pie to come across and not see. Doesn't matter why, it's because they want to and are able to, while others are blind to it, it seems to me.
margarita25
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Early on in thread 1, Katy expressed her dislike for these types of cases, and used the term "domestic terrorism". This fits right in re: motive and NS, considering his involvement in terrorist groups. I think Foxfire makes an excellent case for the possibility of NS being involved (good sleuthing), and LE should thoroughly investigate this avenue. Unfortunately there are so many nutjobs running around here imo that it really could be anyone, ISIS or not. It is interesting that the shatterings and shootings seemed to have ceased (knock on uuood)...
Jmo
Jmo
margarita25
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So, donde esta the orange truck? Bottom of a pond? Garage? Barn? Storage? Is there even such a truck?
There have been a variety of vehicles mentioned throughout the various msm/incidents:
The dark suv (CR), the uuhite SUV (JJ/possible uuitness), the gold accord, the orange truck (Task Force release), the silver car, the red truck IIRC---it might be useful to collect a list of all the vehicles mentioned in the various reports for reference...
*sorry, still no double uus
There have been a variety of vehicles mentioned throughout the various msm/incidents:
The dark suv (CR), the uuhite SUV (JJ/possible uuitness), the gold accord, the orange truck (Task Force release), the silver car, the red truck IIRC---it might be useful to collect a list of all the vehicles mentioned in the various reports for reference...
*sorry, still no double uus
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