CO - Possible Serial Shooter Has Colorado Drivers on Edge #2

[Hatfield]

Hatfield, thank you so much for this post of yours, above, sharing your knowledge and experience.[/URL]

I noted in the PC by Mr. Martin's family, that he was sitting and may have been shot from the back, as his daughter gestured grabbing her shoulder and leaning forward. They were confused as to the cause of his exclaiming "Ow!" on impact. So, it is possible, the bullet from a high powered rifle didn't go through, so it was either from far off and of not high enough velocity or possible shattered on impact? The other thing that stood out was that she described that her world "cracked". When one hears the crack of a shot, if memory serves me well, in the woods, it can be the echo of a shot not taken from so very far away. A crack as opposed to say a shot in the distance, if I may draw on your experience with this aspect?

.

Hello FindHG

IMO
I do think the shot was from quite a ways away.

You are correct that the sounds of bullets going off in the woods can "echo" and can also sometimes make more of a "crack" of a shot sound.

I really wish that camera had did a panaramic view from the campsite to see what their vantage point was. I got a sense that they were able to look down the mountain valley some because the other camper in the 1 video seemed to look around toward the front and their chairs were facing forward.

He said he loved the campsite so I sense it was a great view from where they were.

If the gentleman's chair was turned to his other family members he could have been shot in the back area even if the shot came from down in the valley some.

From all I gathered, I think the people doing the shooting were quite a ways away and they were just terribly careless about not thinking where there bullets were going.

As most people know, bullets can travel over a mile easily but they begin to drop and lose velocity but of course are still very deadly.

If the shooters were futher down in a valley and they were shooting back upwards they may have thought any bullets would just hit the mountainside and they did not realize campers were up in that area.

Im thinking they were about 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile away and it sounds like just a freak accident because the shooters were lawless and careless.

I sure hope the shooters didnt do it on purpose. That would make this much worse situation.

ETA:
One other thing that could have happened is a riccochet off of a rock. Like if the shooters were down at the lake and they hit a rock, then it could have ricocheted upwards towards the campers. Bullets are notorious for ricocheting off of rocks and people need to take great care not to ever shoot at rocks.

ETA again...LOL:
When you do hear shots in the woods, it is very very VERY difficult to figure out which direction it came from. It usually takes multiple shots being fired before someone can begin to tell the direction where it came from.

So it would not surprise me if the campers were not much help to be able to tell LE where they think the shots came from.

LE and park rangers are smart though and they will likely be able to figure out where they think the shooters were. Hopefully they will find recent new shell casings that were left. That will help pin point where the shooters were. Then lets hope there are other witnesses that saw them coming or going.

 

[SugarQueen]

Excellent post outlining how NS fits this case Foxfire.
Just to clarify, it's not that I don't see the connections, hell I posted some of them! I just want to make sure we are seeing the forest AND the trees. sometimes I just need to make sure I haven't fallen so far down the rabbit hole that I get tunnel vision.
I did notice those orange pickup on google maps when LE was searching the farm. As far as other vehicles, I posted way back that it is easy to " borrow" a farm vehicle. I know farmers here who will sometimes leave a truck in a field with the keys in it for the farmhands the next day.

 

[Hatfield]

Hello FindHG,

I read back through and I think I forgot to answer the exact question you had. LOL

I once heard a real "crack" of a bullet sound rather than a "boom" sound and it was from another hunter who was very close to me.

So you could very well be right that if the family was describing a cracking sound then it could be sign the shooter was much closer than what I have been thinking.

Hopefully LE will catch that person or he turns himself in. Its so sad to hear they just went out to enjoy some camping and their family member ends up dead.

 

[Footwarrior]

Excellent post outlining how NS fits this case Foxfire.
Just to clarify, it's not that I don't see the connections, hell I posted some of them! I just want to make sure we are seeing the forest AND the trees. sometimes I just need to make sure I haven't fallen so far down the rabbit hole that I get tunnel vision.
I did notice those orange pickup on google maps when LE was searching the farm. As far as other vehicles, I posted way back that it is easy to " borrow" a farm vehicle. I know farmers here who will sometimes leave a truck in a field with the keys in it for the farmhands the next day.

The trucks may also belong to employees or temporary workers. Images of the farm taken at other times don't show nearly as many vehicles on the property.

 

[FindHG]

Hello FindHG

IMO
I do think the shot was from quite a ways away.

You are correct that the sounds of bullets going off in the woods can "echo" and can also sometimes make more of a "crack" of a shot sound.

I really wish that camera had did a panaramic view from the campsite to see what their vantage point was. I got a sense that they were able to look down the mountain valley some because the other camper in the 1 video seemed to look around toward the front and their chairs were facing forward.

He said he loved the campsite so I sense it was a great view from where they were.

If the gentleman's chair was turned to his other family members he could have been shot in the back area even if the shot came from down in the valley some.

From all I gathered, I think the people doing the shooting were quite a ways away and they were just terribly careless about not thinking where there bullets were going.

As most people know, bullets can travel over a mile easily but they begin to drop and lose velocity but of course are still very deadly.

If the shooters were futher down in a valley and they were shooting back upwards they may have thought any bullets would just hit the mountainside and they did not realize campers were up in that area.

Im thinking they were about 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile away and it sounds like just a freak accident because the shooters were lawless and careless.

I sure hope the shooters didnt do it on purpose. That would make this much worse situation.

ETA:
One other thing that could have happened is a riccochet off of a rock. Like if the shooters were down at the lake and they hit a rock, then it could have ricocheted upwards towards the campers. Bullets are notorious for ricocheting off of rocks and people need to take great care not to ever shoot at rocks.

ETA again...LOL:
When you do hear shots in the woods, it is very very VERY difficult to figure out which direction it came from. It usually takes multiple shots being fired before someone can begin to tell the direction where it came from.

So it would not surprise me if the campers were not much help to be able to tell LE where they think the shots came from.

LE and park rangers are smart though and they will likely be able to figure out where they think the shooters were. Hopefully they will find recent new shell casings that were left. That will help pin point where the shooters were. Then lets hope there are other witnesses that saw them coming or going.

My guess would be whatever was heard or not, Hatfield, which is only an assumption on my part about the "crack", and the direction of the shot which may have been known. It doesn't seem to have been a bullet shot up and fallen from the sky badly, as I know a couple of people hit by such stray bullets who survived harm to their vital organs by a matter of centimeters. They had the sensation of having been hit by a rock. One, it felt like a punch to his face though the bullet was falling down in a straight line with scars going down his nose chest and um, well he had a daughter in less than year. The other said it felt like being hit by a very powerful rock on the side of his skull. Both didn't suspect a falling bullet when hit by these stray falling bullets.

My guess would be it could not have been the people shooting who may have previously been warned by the Rangers, if they were warned at all, and that up to now, no one has come forward pointing out anyone they saw with a 'long high powered rifle.'

Considering how fast Mr. Martin's family made it down the mountain, other shooters may have been canvased by LE on their way out of the park, and may have not seen or reported seeing anything. 6:30 pm is far from sundown but certain parts of the area may have been darker than others, as you mention the campsite's vantage point. Thank you for your response and consideration.

 

[FindHG]

Excellent post outlining how NS fits this case Foxfire.
Just to clarify, it's not that I don't see the connections, hell I posted some of them! I just want to make sure we are seeing the forest AND the trees. sometimes I just need to make sure I haven't fallen so far down the rabbit hole that I get tunnel vision.
I did notice those orange pickup on google maps when LE was searching the farm. As far as other vehicles, I posted way back that it is easy to " borrow" a farm vehicle. I know farmers here who will sometimes leave a truck in a field with the keys in it for the farmhands the next day.

So true, SugarQueen, about Foxfire's excellent sleuthing of NS and your point about the rabbit holes, as following these shooting incidents, it feels like I've grown my own rabbit ears. I think it is of note that the location of the farm is near an airfield. They seem to have solar capacity and a honey bee section too, if I'm seeing things correctly. I guess they would have cold storage facilities as they deal with dairy, and need a certain type of equipment to do that, as well. There are lot's of buildings and as you mention any number of SUV's and pickups, I don't however see any trucks that would serve as cold storage delivery trucks, so how do they distribute, unless such trucks are not present on the various maps or I could be completely off track in my assumptions on how things happen on a diary farm.

Hello FindHG,

I read back through and I think I forgot to answer the exact question you had. LOL

I once heard a real "crack" of a bullet sound rather than a "boom" sound and it was from another hunter who was very close to me.

So you could very well be right that if the family was describing a cracking sound then it could be sign the shooter was much closer than what I have been thinking.

Hopefully LE will catch that person or he turns himself in. Its so sad to hear they just went out to enjoy some camping and their family member ends up dead.

Exactly, Hatfield, thank you, the cracks always seemed closer to me than the boom or the far away fire cracker sound, but I don't trust my memory on it.

 

[SugarQueen]

The used an AX to kill his grandparents!!
http://ktla.com/2015/07/07/man-char...th-of-grandparents-in-glendale-used-an-ax-da/

 

[SugarQueen]

Cows are milked, milked is stored in cooled tanks, trucks come and pump the milk from the farmers tanks into the truck tank. The trucks that pick up the milk usually pick up from a few farms and take it to be processed. At least that's how it works at the few dairy farmers I now.

 

[FindHG]

The used an AX to kill his grandparents!!
http://ktla.com/2015/07/07/man-char...th-of-grandparents-in-glendale-used-an-ax-da/

Thank you, SQ, for letting us know. How gruesome.

Man charged with killing grandparents in Glendale
Los Angeles Times July 7, 15, 1:19 pm

The prosecutor charged Nathaniel Wayne Scheiern

"with two counts of capital murder with the special circumstance of multiple murders,"

 

[FindHG]

Victim: Child was behind Teller County BB gun incident
By Debbie Kelley, July 7, '15, 9:55 am

"It was just a little kid, and he didn't mean to do it, so everything's all right,"

Sounds so real, familiar even, must be a relief to know.

 

[Foxfire]

<BBM for focus>
<Posted on this thread 06/21/2015>

Welcome to the thread mrscg...Thanx for your insight..
We've sleuthed quite a few cases in NOLO, Baton Rouge, Lafayette, etc. over the years. The Mickey Shunick <LA> case took us all over the state and beyond.. Her amazing sister CS has founded a missing person org; FIND MICKEY SHUNICK NOW! SEARCH RESOURCES https://www.facebook.com/groups/360477814006959/864582180263184/?notif_t=group_activity
______________

I commented on WS about the Axeman of NOLO a couple years back. He demanded that NOLO residents play loud jazz music to prevent them from becoming another victim of his wrath..

The Axeman of New Orleans - The Axeman's most famous letter:

Hell, March 13, 1919
Esteemed Mortal:
They have never caught me and they never will. They have never seen me, for I am invisible, even as the ether that surrounds your earth. I am not a human being, but a spirit and a demon from the hottest hell. I am what you Orleanians and your foolish police call the Axeman.
Undoubtedly, you Orleanians think of me as a most horrible murderer, which I am, but I could be much worse if I wanted to. If I wished, I could pay a visit to your city every night. At will I could slay thousands of your best citizens, for I am in close relationship with the Angel of Death.

Now, to be exact, at 12:15 (earthly time) on next Tuesday night, I am going to pass over New Orleans. In my infinite mercy, I am going to make a little proposition to you people. Here it is:

I am very fond of jazz music, and I swear by all the devils in the nether regions that every person shall be spared in whose home a jazz band is in full swing at the time I have just mentioned. If everyone has a jazz band going, well, then, so much the better for you people. One thing is certain and that is that some of your people who do not jazz it on Tuesday night (if there be any) will get the axe.

<snipped read more post #552 @ link> http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ey-Shunick-21-Lafayette-19-May-2012-38/page23
Date apprehended; never caught...
____________________<snipped for Focus>_____________________________________________

The used an AX to kill his grandparents!!
http://ktla.com/2015/07/07/man-char...th-of-grandparents-in-glendale-used-an-ax-da/

Deja vu, almost a century later.... Oh, the tragic parallels... the above NOLO axe-man post on 06/21/2015 and the date of NS's grandparent's estimated date of execution 3 days later is suspiciously coincidental, imo.. Is it possible that this soulless NOCO/CA Axeman & ISIS jihadist lone wolf in training, imo, was monitoring this thread, or just a tragic coincidence? Psychopaths have a reason for everything they say, and for everything they do..jmo

 

[FindHG]

Capital Murder Charges For Grandson of Couple Found Dead in Glendale Home
Nathaniel Wayne Scheiern is scheduled to be arraigned July 21 in connection with the killings of 82-year-old Verna Scheiern and 77-year-old William Scheiern.
NBC4 Los Angeles 2 hrs ago

[...]

Nathaniel Wayne Scheiern is scheduled to be arraigned July 21 in connection with the killings of 82-year-old Verna Scheiern and 77-year-old William Scheiern.

[...]

 

[Foxfire]

Capital Murder Charges For Grandson of Couple Found Dead in Glendale Home
Nathaniel Wayne Scheiern is scheduled to be arraigned July 21 in connection with the killings of 82-year-old Verna Scheiern and 77-year-old William Scheiern.
NBC4 Los Angeles 2 hrs ago

[...]

Nathaniel Wayne Scheiern is scheduled to be arraigned July 21 in connection with the killings of 82-year-old Verna Scheiern and 77-year-old William Scheiern.

[...]

Thanx for sharing, FindHG. Beverly White reporter for NBC4 News states in the news video that Nathaniel Scheiern moved in with his grandparents only recently. She also states that LE has no incident report or timeline for his auto wreck? The date that he was admitted in to the hospital was likely the date of the wreck. If the wreck was prior, the Doctors could determine how old his injuries were.

<snipped - caption under video @ link>
Police were combing a Glendale home for evidence in the slaying of a couple, whose bodies were found by officers during a welfare check at the home over the weekend. Beverly White reports for the NBC4 News at 11 p.m. on Monday, June 29, 2015. (Published Tuesday, Jun 30, 2015)

 

[SugarQueen]

Has anyone seen images of the back of the grandparents house?

 

[Foxfire]

Has anyone seen images of the back of the grandparents house?

No, why?

 

[Forager]

Thanx for sharing, FindHG. Beverly White reporter for NBC4 News states in the news video that Nathaniel Scheiern moved in with his grandparents only recently. She also states that LE has no incident report or timeline for his auto wreck? The date that he was admitted in to the hospital was likely the date of the wreck. If the wreck was prior, the Doctors could determine how old his injuries were.

<snipped - caption under video @ link>
Police were combing a Glendale home for evidence in the slaying of a couple, whose bodies were found by officers during a welfare check at the home over the weekend. Beverly White reports for the NBC4 News at 11 p.m. on Monday, June 29, 2015. (Published Tuesday, Jun 30, 2015)

The story now says: "Authorities subsequently learned that he had been hospitalized after a single-car crash June 25 on a freeway in Santa Clarita." But that might be after an edit. Some guy in the comments section complained about the lack of detail on dates.

 

[Foxfire]

The story now says: "Authorities subsequently learned that he had been hospitalized after a single-car crash June 25 on a freeway in Santa Clarita." But that might be after an edit. Some guy in the comments section complained about the lack of detail on dates.

<BBM for Focus>
Some guy, huh? Anyone we know, Forager?

 

[mrscg]

I'm sure I'm missing something, so is anyone willing to do a tl;dr about why you suspect NS as the CO shooter? I did read all the posts but I haven't been able to put it all together for some reason. What's throwing me off is that everything I've read says he moved to CA a year ago. If that's true, how is he the sniper? And what else is making him suspect for you guys? I'd appreciate someone clearing that up. Thanks!

 

[Foxfire]

Thanx for sharing, FindHG. Beverly White reporter for NBC4 News states in the news video that Nathaniel Scheiern moved in with his grandparents only recently. She also states that LE has no incident report or timeline for his auto wreck? The date that he was admitted in to the hospital was likely the date of the wreck. If the wreck was prior, the Doctors could determine how old his injuries were.

<snipped - caption under video @ link>
Police were combing a Glendale home for evidence in the slaying of a couple, whose bodies were found by officers during a welfare check at the home over the weekend. Beverly White reports for the NBC4 News at 11 p.m. on Monday, June 29, 2015. (Published Tuesday, Jun 30, 2015)

I'm sure I'm missing something, so is anyone willing to do a tl;dr about why you suspect NS as the CO shooter? I did read all the posts but I haven't been able to put it all together for some reason. What's throwing me off is that everything I've read says he moved to CA a year ago. If that's true, how is he the sniper? And what else is making him suspect for you guys? I'd appreciate someone clearing that up. Thanks!

Capital Murder Charges For Grandson of Couple Found Dead in Glendale Home
Nathaniel Wayne Scheiern is scheduled to be arraigned July 21 in connection with the killings of 82-year-old Verna Scheiern and 77-year-old William Scheiern.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/l...-Glendale-grandparents-home-ax-312298961.html
____________________________________________

Beverly White reporter for NBC4 News states in the above news video that Nathaniel Scheiern moved in with his grandparents only recently. Also Forager found out that Nathaniel Scheiern had registered to participate in a charity walk in CO on 07/07/2015. Mrscg, does this sound like someone that had permanently moved to CA a year ago? <tl;dr ... too long; didn't read. Used to indicate that one did not read a (long) text, or to mark a short summary of an overly long text- LOL>.

Comments (1)

 

[FindHG]

After camper is killed by apparent stray bullet, some are wary of target shooting near campsites
Glenn Martin fatally shot at Rainbow Falls Park
Amanda Zitzman, ABC7,
6:40 pm, Jul 7, '15
4 hours ago

Information rich, great images, perspective and interview.


~ * ~


Family of Monument man struck, killed by bullet while camping wants honesty, closure
By Kassondra Cloos writes and Eric Singer reports in a video,The Gazette,
July 7, '15, 4:37 pm

[...]

They picked their campsite with great intention - it was away from other people and in a kind of "bowl," Carlie said, with hills all around them. They thought the location would keep their kids safe and away from the road. Martin was close by Chris and Carlie's children when he was struck, they said. They hadn't heard gunshots for a while and don't remember hearing any around the time Martin was hit.

[...]

The family said they want whoever is responsible to step forward and own up to it.

"Come forward," Chris said. "If you guys knew you were shooting up there and you weren't supposed to, man up and come forward, so we can have peace of mind."

[...]

~ * ~


Help needed to find gunman in Douglas County camp shooting
Updated: July 6 '15, 5:50 pm edt

[...]

A $2,000 reward is now being offered for information on the shooting death of a Monument man at a campground over the weekend.

[...]

~ * ~

Family wants help finding person who fired stray bullet that killed their father at campsite
By Tammy Vigil, Co's Own Channel 2, 7/6/15

"Not only did they lose their loved one&#8211;someone they say was so positive, so funny, someone who could fix anything, a MacGyver in his own right&#8211;but they still don&#8217;t know who killed him."

[...]

Sheriff&#8217;s deputies say the machinist was hit by what appears to be a stray bullet as he sat around a campfire

[...]

"The shooting stopped for a couple of hours, so they assumed it had been taken care of&#8211;until that fatal bullet.

If you were shooting or saw someone shooting a high-powered rifle about 6:30 p.m. Friday, investigators want to hear from you."

[...]