CO - Possible Serial Shooter Has Colorado Drivers on Edge #2

[Forager]

< campsite shooting references snipped >
Off Topic:

Vandals target mailboxes in Arvada neighborhoods
Dan Daru reports 6:24 pm, FOX31, July 6, '15

Don't even think about asking me to map the mailboxes!

 

[FindHG]

OMG! Please no, I hadn't thought of that!!

What a great shame on him and his reasons for killing his own grandparents, besides his inhumanity, if that turns out to be true or not. My impression of his actions is more pathetic angry whimper in brutally killing his grandparents and trying to run out his luck.

 

[FindHG]

Family of man killed by stray bullet speaks out
Allison Sylte & Ryan Haaer, 9:52 pm mdt, July 6 '15,
some more details from Mr. Martin's family's appeal to shooter to "man up", and that they seem to have heard a shot in the distance.



"We thought he'd gotten stung by a bee, or he was having a heart attack or something.

[... his daughter, Carlie said]

"My daddy always said 'if you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough,'"... "So that person needs to know what they've done, because they have ruined out lives."


her husband had confronted a member of the U.S. Forest Service earlier in the day about people who they heard shooting nearby. She says they picked that area to camp specifically because it was safe, and wasn't a shooting range.

They had brought New York strip steaks to grill for dinner, a nice bottle of wine and marshmallows for the kids.


She wishes she didn't have to lose her father that way. So suddenly -- and in front of her children.

"... In front of them. In the wilderness. That's not ok. It should never happen,"... "Not in my arms. Not next to us. In front of us. That's not the way it's supposed to happen."

~

This is essentially off topic from the NOCO shootings/shatterings, IMO, but on topic as to mapping and sleuthing. FindHG gulled me into rechecking the Glenn Martin shooting location in the Rainbow Falls Park area of Pikes National Forest and pretty soon I was totally confused about where to put the marker. Here are some of the problems I had:

- Fox31 had a Google map shot showing the location as 5 miles too far south.
- Fox seems have to mapped the location based on a website maintained by FreeCampSites.net, which also shows the Rainbow Falls campsite too far south. (Google maps also mislabels the same campsite, calls it the "Colorado Campground", which is a different campsite even further south).
- The Fox31 reporter had gone to actual site of the shooting, but reported it as "camp 248C". He should have said "road 348C", to judge by FindHG's screenshot from the Fox video.

Only the Douglas County Sheriff's Office had it right, in a Google map they posted to their 'Newsroom' site, just off of road 348C. No MSM had picked up that map, and neither had I, initially. A cautionary tale, I figure.

~

Off Topic:

Don't even think about asking me to map the mailboxes!

I'm not asking for Kathmandu, Forager. They want a good count of the mailboxes for a court to set 'restitution'. An update, just the same, with a video.

Hundreds of mailboxes ransacked Arvada on July 2 and Weld County on July 4
Phil Tenser, 7NEWS, 10:51 am, July 6, '15, 51 mins ago

 

[giagreen]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-head-shotgun-walked-boyfriend-Hollywood.html

This young woman seems to have been shot at random in CA. Of course its a ways away from CO but who knows who, why, where is doing this.

 

[mrscg]

Bingo! That was exactly what I came here to post. I'd put five bucks on it that he beheaded them.

I looked through his FB last night, though. While he has some Islamic extremist stuff there, I can't help but feel like he is too ... stupid to actually be serious about it. I'm not saying you need to be smart to join ISIS lol but he doesn't seem to have the brain cells to even grasp the ideology to the point where he could be fully indoctrinated. It's beside the point really, because either way it could have freaked his poor grandparents out enough to call the FBI.

Edit: @Foxfire

 

[Foxfire]

Bingo! That was exactly what I came here to post. I'd put five bucks on it that he beheaded them.

I looked through his FB last night, though. While he has some Islamic extremist stuff there, I can't help but feel like he is too ... stupid to actually be serious about it. I'm not saying you need to be smart to join ISIS lol but he doesn't seem to have the brain cells to even grasp the ideology to the point where he could be fully indoctrinated. It's beside the point really, because either way it could have freaked his poor grandparents out enough to call the FBI.


Edit: @Foxfire

I learned along time ago to never misunderestimate a sadistic psychopath, mrscg.. Investigators, as well as the ms media have been extremely careful choosing their vague wording describing the specifics and details of these savage and heinous crimes. Been following some of the most sadistic and soulless serial killers and other predators for almost a decade and have never ran across the COD; 'died of blood loss from traumatic injuries'... The killing of one's grandparents is very rare and is referred to as grand-matricide/patricide.

Maybe we will learn more details since NS will be in court today..

<BBM for Focus>
http://laist.com/2015/07/03/nathaniel_scheiern_arrested_murder.php
Man Arrested For Allegedly Murdering His Grandparents In Glendale

Authorities have not released information on how the couple was murdered, but Glendale Police Department Sgt. Robert William told the L.A. Times he believes the couple had been "targeted."
Nathaniel had been living with his grandparents for the past year, and was not home when the bodies were found. Family friend, Jim Stone, told KTLA that Nathaniel moved from Colorado to live with his grandparents in Glendale because he was "troubled."

Nathaniel's expected to be in court next Tuesday.

 

[SugarQueen]

Beheading fits but ( shudder) Sugar doesn't follow anything with beheadings.
Do we really think NS is our NoCo shooter? I can't believe we haven't heard anything else about that orange pick up.

 

[Foxfire]

Beheading fits but ( shudder) Sugar doesn't follow anything with beheadings.
Do we really think NS is our NoCo shooter? I can't believe we haven't heard anything else about that orange pick up.

<BBM for Focus>

Sugar Queen, it seems that beheadings are becoming more common as of late for multiple reasons, imo..

Not absolutely sure if NS is our NoCo shooter, but imo NS sure fits the bill.. NS was driving his grandparents vehicle when he was involved in the recent solo collision. Where is NS's personal vehicle? His posts on facebook about the firearm concealed carry permit<05/04/2015>and the one directed exclusively to his non-biological family with a specific request <do not Like>, raises red flags, imo. NS's multiple CO residences in the geographical area of concern over the last decade, past and present criminal record indicating a lack of empathy and extremely violent tendencies.

NS signing up for the charity walk on 07/07/2015 indicates to me that he recently unexpectedly returned to CA and coincides with the NOCO Sniper/SK going dormant. The NOCO Sniper/SK had been escalating up until the release of the Vehicle of Interest/Old Chevy Truck by the Task Force.. Coincidence, not imo.. I feel that NOCO Task Force investigators were/are likely getting very close to connecting the dots and identifying and arresting the NOCO Sniper/SK..

There are many other indicators but the fact that the Glendale CA
PD has referred Nathaniel Scheiern's case to the FBI's anti terrorism task force speaks volumes, imo..

 

[Footwarrior]

Beheading fits but ( shudder) Sugar doesn't follow anything with beheadings.
Do we really think NS is our NoCo shooter? I can't believe we haven't heard anything else about that orange pick up.

The authorities have not told us why the dairy farm was searched. The most likely explanation is that an orange pickup has been seen at that location.

The metal detectors are an indication they are looking for ballistic evidence. Looking for rounds shot at targets on the dairy farm to see if any can be matched to those recovered at the crime scenes.

Given the publicity about the orange pickup, it has probably been repainted. A brushed on coat of generic grey primer would do the trick.

ETA: The inside of the door frames and any exposed interior metal would still be orange. If those areas were also covered with primer, I would report the truck.

 

[FindHG]

Camp Fire Killing
By Elizabeth Hernandez and Jesse Paul, The Denver Post, updated text & video at about 1:40 - 1:60,
Mr. Martin's daughter describes how her dad was killed, out of the blue, at the PC on yesterday at the Douglas County Sheriff's Office, and then more of what her family went through.

"What happened was that I lost my best friend,"... "I lost the role model for our boys. Now we just have to have the memory."

[...]

"He went to every one of his grandsons' school events, games and milestones."

[...]

""engineering genius" father — they headed up to a secluded campground about three miles up into the park area"

[...]

"happened very quickly, very graphically and in front of my sons.""

[... though trying CPR throughout their effort to save her dad]

"We just couldn't get down the mountain fast enough."

[...]

 

[Foxfire]

The authorities have not told us why the dairy farm was searched. The most likely explanation is that an orange pickup has been seen at that location.

The metal detectors are an indication they are looking for ballistic evidence. Looking for rounds shot at targets on the dairy farm to see if any can be matched to those recovered at the crime scenes.

Given the publicity about the orange pickup, it has probably been repainted. A brushed on coat of generic grey primer would do the trick.

<BBM for Focus>
Google Maps link for the cattle/dairy farm at Rd 30 and County Rd 9 Loveland where the NOCO Shooter task force is searching today. Go to satellite and zoom in til you can see the horns of the cows and then scroll down to the southeast quadrant of the farm til you see the the 2 orange pickups parked across from the barn/structure.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/40....2243404edf685d3!2m2!1d-105.010887!2d40.447631

 

[FindHG]

<BBM for Focus>
Google Maps link for the cattle/dairy farm at Rd 30 and County Rd 9 Loveland where the NOCO Shooter task force is searching today. Go to satellite and zoom in til you can see the horns of the cows and then scroll down to the southeast quadrant of the farm til you see the the 2 orange pickups parked across from the barn/structure.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/40....2243404edf685d3!2m2!1d-105.010887!2d40.447631

from Foxfire's Google map link, looking for his great find bolded above, interesting we get different pictures, you have the 2014 map, where as the one I get is more current, and doesn't have the orange pickups parked there.

Tilt views, of the farm and environs, going off your link, Foxfire, then moving around from this re-set embed,

 

[SweetT]

I hope they catch this person or persons soon. .there are a lot of families that go to Colorado during summer break. .I wouldn't go there now myself. God speed to LE.

 

[Hatfield]

Camper Killed by "Errant Bullet" Identified
11News KKTV, Mon 12:19 PM, Jul 06, 2015

Here is a safety tip based on experience.

I checked all the links and I think it was the 2nd link in Post 734 that shows the campsite where he got shot with new campers but it doesnt show the surrounding view which is disappointing because I wanted to see the vantage point they had.

The reason I wanted to see the vantage point they had is because it is very unusual and very unlikely to get hit by a random shot in the woods.

I have deer hunted quite often and I always try to be as safe as possible and wear blaze orange and also I am always trying to be sure I dont venture too close to other hunters.

The only way that person unfortunately got hit by random was there was a clear path for the bullet. So I am just guessing that the particular campsite they were at had an open view to areas below them.

From what I could tell of the video of the other campers at their site I think they were basically up a little higher on the mountainside and could look down at a great view. The camera never turned to look to see what they could see but I suspect the bullet came from an area below them or off to the side.

There is a lake not too far and I think perhaps the shooters were near the lake and the lake area provided an open view towards their campsite.

The reason I am bringing this up is I want to point out a safety tip when in the woods with other people that could be shooting.

The safety tip is that so long as you have trees inbetween you and where you suspect another person maybe shooting, you will likely be very safe. The reason is that a bullet is almost guaranteed to hit another tree before it has a direct path to you.

The more trees between you and where shots are the better.

You can do a simple test the next time you are in the woods. Just try to look in any direction and pick out something in the far distance and try to focus to see as far as you can spot something. You will find that a tree will always block your direct path sooner or later.

It surprisingly doesnt take much distance to have at least 1 tree blocking a direct path to you from someone else.

You can even do this test with another person and have them walk out ahead of you and try to see if you would see their chest area. Have them randomly walk further and further away and very soon you will find that a tree will block your direct path to them.

So the safety tip is when camping in an area where you suspect there could be other people shooting guns, it is good to be in a wooded tree area.

Or at a minimum make sure you have trees in the direction where you think there could be someone shooting.

For the unfortunate family man, I suspect their campsite had an open area view to where the other person made some critical and law breaking mistakes.

He did not have a good backstop or even care what was beyond the area where he was shooting. He was also shooting in an area that was already declared to be an area where no shooting should be going on.

I hope LE catches the person that shot the man because he obviously is a careless person and had no business being in that area shooting and not having a backstop for his bullets. Its people like that that give all responsible gun owners a bad name. We want him arrested and charged like anyone else.

Prayers for that family man and his family.

 

[FindHG]

Hatfield, thank you so much for this post of yours, above, sharing your knowledge and experience.

I noted in the PC by Mr. Martin's family, that he was sitting and may have been shot from the back, as his daughter gestured grabbing her shoulder and leaning forward. They were confused as to the cause of his exclaiming "Ow!" on impact. So, it is possible, the bullet from a high powered rifle didn't go through, so it was either from far off and of not high enough velocity or possible shattered on impact? The other thing that stood out was that she described that her world "cracked". When one hears the crack of a shot, if memory serves me well, in the woods, it can be the echo of a shot not taken from so very far away. A crack as opposed to say a shot in the distance, if I may draw on your experience with this aspect?

View attachment 77729 from Foxfire's Google map link View attachment 77730 interesting we get different pictures, you have the 2014 map, where as the one I get is more current, and doesn't have the orange pickups parked there.

And I get this one parked out by the corrals, north east quadish compared to yours, behind a white trailer and tractor and the sorts.

 

[Forager]

<BBM for Focus>
Google Maps link for the cattle/dairy farm at Rd 30 and County Rd 9 Loveland where the NOCO Shooter task force is searching today. Go to satellite and zoom in til you can see the horns of the cows and then scroll down to the southeast quadrant of the farm til you see the the 2 orange pickups parked across from the barn/structure.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/40....2243404edf685d3!2m2!1d-105.010887!2d40.447631

Very good! I had peered at that farm till I could hear the cows moo without noticing those pickups. As FindHG noted, some versions of Google map show different imagery, without the pickups. The map imagery in our case map, however, does show the pickups Foxfire mentions.





Here's a Microsoft Bing Maps shot of the same area, including one of a redish orange pickup. (I couldn't get dates for the imagery from Google or Bing, but I've seen posts on other threads with imagery date references. Anyone know how to do that?)

 

[Hatfield]

<BBM for Focus>

Sugar Queen, it seems that beheadings are becoming more common as of late for multiple reasons, imo..

Not absolutely sure if NS is our NoCo shooter, but imo NS sure fits the bill.. NS was driving his grandparents vehicle when he was involved in the recent solo collision. Where is NS's personal vehicle? His posts on facebook about the firearm concealed carry permit<05/04/2015>and the one directed exclusively to his non-biological family with a specific request <do not Like>, raises red flags, imo. NS's multiple CO residences in the geographical area of concern over the last decade, past and present criminal record indicating a lack of empathy and extremely violent tendencies.

NS signing up for the charity walk on 07/07/2015 indicates to me that he recently unexpectedly returned to CA and coincides with the NOCO Sniper/SK going dormant. The NOCO Sniper/SK had been escalating up until the release of the Vehicle of Interest/Old Chevy Truck by the Task Force.. Coincidence, not imo.. I feel that NOCO Task Force investigators were/are likely getting very close to connecting the dots and identifying and arresting the NOCO Sniper/SK..

There are many other indicators but the fact that the Glendale CA
PD has referred Nathaniel Scheiern's case to the FBI's anti terrorism task force speaks volumes, imo..

Some great points.

The FBI being involved with the CO shooter investigation always had me thinking this could be even bigger than a domestic sniper case.

This guy may or may not be the CO shooter but there are many things that would make sense if he is.

The randomness of the victims would fall into this type of person who would not care who he killed so long as he killed others.

 

[Hatfield]

Very good! I had peered at that farm till I could hear the cows moo without noticing those pickups. As FindHG noted, some versions of Google map show different imagery, without the pickups. The map imagery in our case map, however, does show the pickups Foxfire mentions.

View attachment 77735

View attachment 77736

Thanks everyone for the great photos and links.

That older orange color would be the type of color that was described in the sketch. This particular farm also has quite a few different older vehicles so it would make swapping out an easy task if someone wanted to keep changing their vehicle.

Wonder if this farmer had some people working for him that could be involved. Not necessrily the owner of the farm but someone he may have hired or even in the past who knew where keys were kept.

 

[Hatfield]

Very good! I had peered at that farm till I could hear the cows moo without noticing those pickups. As FindHG noted, some versions of Google map show different imagery, without the pickups. The map imagery in our case map, however, does show the pickups Foxfire mentions.

View attachment 77735

View attachment 77736

Was there some early description from a witness of a white vehicle too?

The top picture has some white vehicles and I could have sworn there was some early talk about a white vehicle?

I may be mistaken about that or getting confused with another case.

 

[SugarQueen]

I

Was there some early description from a witness of a white vehicle too?

The top picture has some white vehicles and I could have sworn there was some early talk about a white vehicle?

I may be mistaken about that or getting confused with another case.

Yes, at some point LE was looking for a white SUV saying they might have witnessed something.