CO CO - Roger Ellison, 17, Cedaredge, 10 Feb 1981 #1

[Bennettras]

Were you living at home at the time of Roger's disappearance? Do you know for a fact that something hadn't been troubling him since Christmas vacation because you were able to observe his behavior on a daily basis?

We are here sincerely trying to help find Roger and find out what happened to him. Collectively, we have asked numerous questions in an effort to advance what we know about Roger's disappearance. They have gone unanswered. Your help would be greatly appreciated! I have not dismissed that JP may have had something to do with Roger's disappearance, but without additional info to support that, then all other possibilities must be checked out.

First of all My parents never said Roger was preoccupied, I don't know where that came from, he was very focused on his school and doing the best he could at the race that was coming up that weekend in Aspen.
HE DID NOT RUN AWAY

Were there any other family members living in the house at the time besides Roger's parents that may have said Roger seemed preoccupied? The original newspaper articles printed that as a quote from the mother and the parents. It would be very helpful to know the family dynamics to fetter out how JP fits into going to see Roger's mother, which I believe he did do and said what she reported he said.

 

[CaptAmerica]

Thursday, August 5, 2010
Sandoval guilty of first-degree murder of estranged wife



Sharon Dunn
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John Sandoval is led from the courtroom in handcuffs after being found guilty of first-degree murder on Thursday Aug. 5, 2010 in the Weld County Court House in Greeley, Colo. Sandoval, 45, was found guilty of killing his estranged wife 14 years ago. The body of Kristina Tournai-Sandoval has never been found.
ERIC BELLAMY/ebellamy@greeleytribune.com
Concluding the longest criminal trial in Weld County history, Weld District Court jurors today found John Sandoval guilty of first-degree murder in the 1995 killing of his estranged wife, Kristina Tournai-Sandoval.

Jurors returned the verdict just seven hours after they began their deliberations this morning. Sandoval was then sentenced to the mandatory term of life in prison without the possibility of parole.

For the past month, jurors listened to witnesses struggle with 15-year-old memories, new witnesses who weren't interviewed until last year, analysts who couldn't find strong DNA connections even with advanced technology, and expert testimony on dog tracking and domestic violence.

Sandoval, 45, was convicted of killing his wife on Oct. 19, 1995, after a planned meeting with her. She was never seen again, but personal items of hers were found at his home the day she disappeared, and her car was found four blocks from his home, with her wallet and cell phone in the glove box.

Police said Sandoval acted oddly after his wife's disappearance, including running from officers after coming home with a shovel and dirty clothes the night she disappeared and cleaning his fingernails before police could collect evidence. He also had what police characterized as scratch marks on his neck and chest.

Though they extensively investigated the case in 1995, prosecutors then wouldn't touch the case because Tournai-Sandoval's body had not been found. A death certificate was issued in December 2001 after a Weld District Court judge ruled there was enough evidence to believe she had died.

Police presented the case to Weld District Attorney Ken Buck for charges last summer. Sandoval was arrested at his Las Vegas home and brought to Weld County.

In closing arguments Wednesday, Chief Deputy District Attorney Matt Maillaro told jurors that when they looked at all of the evidence, the circumstances point to one inevitable conclusion, he said.

“Why focus on the defendant?” Maillaro asked. “How could they not focus on this defendant?”

Circumstantial evidence is given as much weight as physical evidence in the eyes of the law, Weld District Court Judge Gilbert Gutierrez told the jury.

Tournai-Sandoval, a new nurse at North Colorado Medical Center, was carrying on her life as one would expect of a 23-year-old woman who had left her husband and moved into her own apartment. She was buying items to start that life, carrying on a pattern of paying her bills regularly. She even dated other men. But she also was afraid of Sandoval, and told friends, family and doctors of her safety concerns, prosecutors said. Sandoval had a past, stalking women and trespassing into their homes; he'd threatened to kill her or himself if she ever left him.

On Oct. 19, 1995, she had a planned breakfast meeting with Sandoval to finalize their pending divorce and to discuss money he owed her. She told others she feared attending the meeting. She was never seen again.

Tournai-Sandoval failed to call her sister by 12:30 p.m. to assure that she was all right.

In his own closing arguments, public defender Ken Barker said there was no DNA, fingerprints, blood, murder weapon or even a body that directly tied Sandoval to the presumed death of his wife.

“Physical evidence doesn't lie, it does not change stories, it does not forget, and it does not exaggerate, and it does not lose its memory,” Barker told the jury, alluding to the scores of missteps he and public defender Jayme Muehlenkamp alleged in what they called a “tunnel-vision” investigation.

 

[kirsty]

Thursday, August 5, 2010
Sandoval guilty of first-degree murder of estranged wife



Sharon Dunn
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John Sandoval is led from the courtroom in handcuffs after being found guilty of first-degree murder on Thursday Aug. 5, 2010 in the Weld County Court House in Greeley, Colo. Sandoval, 45, was found guilty of killing his estranged wife 14 years ago. The body of Kristina Tournai-Sandoval has never been found.
ERIC BELLAMY/ebellamy@greeleytribune.com
Concluding the longest criminal trial in Weld County history, Weld District Court jurors today found John Sandoval guilty of first-degree murder in the 1995 killing of his estranged wife, Kristina Tournai-Sandoval.

Jurors returned the verdict just seven hours after they began their deliberations this morning. Sandoval was then sentenced to the mandatory term of life in prison without the possibility of parole.

For the past month, jurors listened to witnesses struggle with 15-year-old memories, new witnesses who weren't interviewed until last year, analysts who couldn't find strong DNA connections even with advanced technology, and expert testimony on dog tracking and domestic violence.

Sandoval, 45, was convicted of killing his wife on Oct. 19, 1995, after a planned meeting with her. She was never seen again, but personal items of hers were found at his home the day she disappeared, and her car was found four blocks from his home, with her wallet and cell phone in the glove box.

Police said Sandoval acted oddly after his wife's disappearance, including running from officers after coming home with a shovel and dirty clothes the night she disappeared and cleaning his fingernails before police could collect evidence. He also had what police characterized as scratch marks on his neck and chest.

Though they extensively investigated the case in 1995, prosecutors then wouldn't touch the case because Tournai-Sandoval's body had not been found. A death certificate was issued in December 2001 after a Weld District Court judge ruled there was enough evidence to believe she had died.

Police presented the case to Weld District Attorney Ken Buck for charges last summer. Sandoval was arrested at his Las Vegas home and brought to Weld County.

In closing arguments Wednesday, Chief Deputy District Attorney Matt Maillaro told jurors that when they looked at all of the evidence, the circumstances point to one inevitable conclusion, he said.

“Why focus on the defendant?” Maillaro asked. “How could they not focus on this defendant?”

Circumstantial evidence is given as much weight as physical evidence in the eyes of the law, Weld District Court Judge Gilbert Gutierrez told the jury.

Tournai-Sandoval, a new nurse at North Colorado Medical Center, was carrying on her life as one would expect of a 23-year-old woman who had left her husband and moved into her own apartment. She was buying items to start that life, carrying on a pattern of paying her bills regularly. She even dated other men. But she also was afraid of Sandoval, and told friends, family and doctors of her safety concerns, prosecutors said. Sandoval had a past, stalking women and trespassing into their homes; he'd threatened to kill her or himself if she ever left him.

On Oct. 19, 1995, she had a planned breakfast meeting with Sandoval to finalize their pending divorce and to discuss money he owed her. She told others she feared attending the meeting. She was never seen again.

Tournai-Sandoval failed to call her sister by 12:30 p.m. to assure that she was all right.

In his own closing arguments, public defender Ken Barker said there was no DNA, fingerprints, blood, murder weapon or even a body that directly tied Sandoval to the presumed death of his wife.

“Physical evidence doesn't lie, it does not change stories, it does not forget, and it does not exaggerate, and it does not lose its memory,” Barker told the jury, alluding to the scores of missteps he and public defender Jayme Muehlenkamp alleged in what they called a “tunnel-vision” investigation.

so, whats this?

 

[CaptAmerica]

This is what is known as a "No Body Homicide". It is called that because the victim is never found. It is one of three successfully tried and convicted homicide cases in Colorado. Everything that could go right in a murder investigation/trial did in this case. It's a roadmap for similar cases where the person has never been found, where foul play is suspected.

 

[justthinkin]

I fail to see what the Sandoval case has to do with the Ellison case. A wife gone missing pending a divorce, husband suspected, happens all too frequently. Quite easy for jurors to zero in on the then almost ex-husband as the culprit.


I hate to play devil's advocate here, but over the years exactly how many teachers have been suspected in the deaths of missing students? I think you're trying to compare apples to oranges. What are the commonalities in the two cases beyond both containing a missing person? :waitasec:

Unless you can be more specific, and directly link the Sandoval case with Roger Ellison, your post of the Sandoval case outcome is OT IMO, and would have been more appropriately placed in Crimes In the News or Trials Pending. This thread is for Roger Ellison.

 

[DrHog]

First of all My parents never said Roger was preoccupied, I don't know where that came from, he was very focused on his school and doing the best he could at the race that was coming up that weekend in Aspen.
HE DID NOT RUN AWAY

I'm guessing you are certain your brother did not "run away" either because you have knowledge we don't have or you feel you knew him so well it is impossible for him to have left voluntarily? Just based on probabilities, it is much more likely he didn't run away, but as an investigator (which I am not), it would be an avenue one shouldn't close just because it is so unlikely. Do you agree?

 

[Bennettras]

This is what is known as a "No Body Homicide". It is called that because the victim is never found. It is one of three successfully tried and convicted homicide cases in Colorado. Everything that could go right in a murder investigation/trial did in this case. It's a roadmap for similar cases where the person has never been found, where foul play is suspected.

What foul play scenario do you suspect could lead to a 'No Body Homicide" in this case?

 

[Bennettras]

This will be my 1st post on Websleuths though I have been reading it for a while. My primary case of interest is the Morgan Nick abduction from Alma, Arkansas in 1995.

DrHog,

I was going over the thread again and am wondering why you have not posted on the Morgan Nick thread since that is what your primary interest is. You have told us you are from the south. You have a lot of great insight and that may be helpful in the Morgan Nick case. I Bumped it. I do think that her case will be solved just like I believe Roger's will. Thanks again for all of your helpful posts as an educator. I have learned a lot from you.

 

[DrHog]

DrHog,

I was going over the thread again and am wondering why you have not posted on the Morgan Nick thread since that is what your primary interest is. You have told us you are from the south. You have a lot of great insight and that may be helpful in the Morgan Nick case. I Bumped it. I do think that her case will be solved just like I believe Roger's will. Thanks again for all of your helpful posts as an educator. I have learned a lot from you.

I have spent many years reviewing all the public information I can find about the Morgan Nick case, but I have also talked to people who have non-public knowledge of the case. I feel I have to be careful to not carelessly say something I shouldn't. The only way to assure I don't is to not say anything on a public forum. I have made the conscious decision to only post about other cases.

 

[CaptAmerica]

The idea behind a no body homicide is that just because police never found or will never find the remains/body of the missing person like Roger, does not mean that they did not meet with foul play. The opening argument made by Chief Deputy Prosecutor Matt Maillaro says it all-Kristina Sandoval like Roger, had everything to live for, was a responsible person, was living and planning a new life for herself, much the way Roger was planning and preparing to go to college later that year. He was working in a grocery store, Ski his heart out in hopes of one day making the US Olympic Ski team and going to college. People like Roger, Kristina and others, including the remains of the 17-year-old male found in Chaffee County seven months after Roger's disappearance; do not just walk away for 29 years, as some would have you believe, without ever contacting their family.
A lot more investigative work needs to be done in this case, including the use of a federal or state grand jury, to compel people to disclose their information, and offer witness protection to those that need it. If Roger's remains (assuming he is dead) if they are never found (Justthinkin OT IMO) will leave police with few options to include presenting this case as a no body homicide. To date, the number of successful no body homicide cases is growing around the country. In many cases, the police believe they know the responsible parties. They and their families may never know the why?
Sandoval's case is significant because it happened in Colorado, prosecuted by Colorado DA's and investigators, which means a precedence has been set for these types of cases in Colorado, including a vital roadmap for prosecutors and investigators to follow for investigation and prosecution. Taking a 29-year-old cold case to a prosecutor is a daunting task, unless you know what must be done to prove the case. The prosecutor(s) will want to talk to other prosecutors that have been there and done that.
Lastly, not much attention has been paid to the fact that police still have the unidentified remains of that 17-year-old male in Chaffee County. His remains did not found their way into that isolated wooded area by themselves in September of 1981. Therefore, what you really have is a missing person's case involving not one but two 17 year olds in 1981. I challenge everyone to put a name to the face of the Chaffee County John Doe-because it is somebody's loved one who, like Roger, never came home again 29 years ago. Just a thought.

 

[DrHog]

I agree with CaptAmerica's view of the best way to proceed with this case. A grand jury might just be the ticket to gain the evidence necessary to solve this case. Unless new evidence is gained or old evidence is pursued harder, this case will continue to flounder.

 

[Danaya]

Captain America:

Earlier in this thread, I posted about quite a few missing young people who dissapeared in or around Colorado in the time frame Roger did. I don't think I saw any young men who could be this John Doe but I'd have to go back. One of the theories I threw out there was that a serial killer could have been working in the area. I guess sometimes in cases, investigators get tunnel vision and don't think about anything else happening to the victim and they just zone in on one suspect or possible scenario.

 

[justthinkin]

I see what you're getting at, CaptAmerica, and appreciate this clearer correlation.

DrHog, I couldn't agree more.

I also want to talk about an earlier post of mine. My primary reason for posting that one was that I believe the event or circumstances that preceded Roger's disappearance may have taken place during the Christmas holidays. I truly believe something was set in motion then, because with school, working at the grocery, and concentrating on skiing, Roger wouldn't have had much free time during a school week to have gotten himself involved in something, whatever that something was.

 

[CaptAmerica]

I think your observations about police are partially true. However, thirty years ago police did not have the training and more importantly the social data and statistics about homicide, serial killers and other predators that have emerged in our communities over the years. Also, technology was not what it is today, including the ability to enter missing person data into a nationwide network and alert other police agencies and communcate nationwide. Police today don't have the waiting period back then, respond faster and have more experts to call upon to assist them in their work. Things that contribute to the success or failure of an investigation depends in part where the crime is committed. If its in a small town jurisdicton like Cedaredge, Colordao in 1981, you would have strained the resources of the department. Missing person cases which later turn into homicide investigations are labor intensive and costly.

 

[Bennettras]

The idea behind a no body homicide is that just because police never found or will never find the remains/body of the missing person like Roger, does not mean that they did not meet with foul play. The opening argument made by Chief Deputy Prosecutor Matt Maillaro says it all-Kristina Sandoval like Roger, had everything to live for, was a responsible person, was living and planning a new life for herself, much the way Roger was planning and preparing to go to college later that year. He was working in a grocery store, Ski his heart out in hopes of one day making the US Olympic Ski team and going to college. People like Roger, Kristina and others, including the remains of the 17-year-old male found in Chaffee County seven months after Roger's disappearance; do not just walk away for 29 years, as some would have you believe, without ever contacting their family.
A lot more investigative work needs to be done in this case, including the use of a federal or state grand jury, to compel people to disclose their information, and offer witness protection to those that need it. If Roger's remains (assuming he is dead) if they are never found (Justthinkin OT IMO) will leave police with few options to include presenting this case as a no body homicide. To date, the number of successful no body homicide cases is growing around the country. In many cases, the police believe they know the responsible parties. They and their families may never know the why?
Sandoval's case is significant because it happened in Colorado, prosecuted by Colorado DA's and investigators, which means a precedence has been set for these types of cases in Colorado, including a vital roadmap for prosecutors and investigators to follow for investigation and prosecution. Taking a 29-year-old cold case to a prosecutor is a daunting task, unless you know what must be done to prove the case. The prosecutor(s) will want to talk to other prosecutors that have been there and done that.
Lastly, not much attention has been paid to the fact that police still have the unidentified remains of that 17-year-old male in Chaffee County. His remains did not found their way into that isolated wooded area by themselves in September of 1981. Therefore, what you really have is a missing person's case involving not one but two 17 year olds in 1981. I challenge everyone to put a name to the face of the Chaffee County John Doe-because it is somebody's loved one who, like Roger, never came home again 29 years ago. Just a thought.

Just curious since NO BODY homicides are so difficult to prosecute, doesn't having a suspect, like they did in the Sandoval case, become a very necessary part of the investigation for the police and the DA? I would think it would be a difficult thing in this case, because there has only been a POI named. Or, is that just police jargon for 'we aren't letting you know that this POI is really a suspect? :waitasec:

 

[kirsty]

bumping for Roger, so we dont forget.

 

[Bennettras]

Just curious since NO BODY homicides are so difficult to prosecute, doesn't having a suspect, like they did in the Sandoval case, become a very necessary part of the investigation for the police and the DA? I would think it would be a difficult thing in this case, because there has only been a POI named. Or, is that just police jargon for 'we aren't letting you know that this POI is really a suspect? :waitasec:

Hello, Captamerica, any thoughts?

 

[Bennettras]

bumpity bump

 

[CaptAmerica]

At this point, we need more facts, and evidence. The thing about these types of cases is that they never sleep. Somebody could unearth human remains at anytime, which often reveals the location of a clandestine grave site. There is still lots that needs to be done on this case before deciding on a POI.

 

[Bennettras]

At this point, we need more facts, and evidence. The thing about these types of cases is that they never sleep. Somebody could unearth human remains at anytime, which often reveals the location of a clandestine grave site. There is still lots that needs to be done on this case before deciding on a POI.

I was talking more along the lines of never finding a body, like in the Sandoval case. LE always thought the husband did it, so doesn't that make it easier to investigate? Unlike Roger's case, they only have a POI.