CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #10

[margarita25]

I wonder if AP made any comments that she was not into raising someone else’s kids. And CW internalized that and decided to rectify that “problem”.

 

[cattlekate]

When they first bought the house there was a document stating he made $141,000 or $171,000, I’m not sure, and then he got laid off.

No.

 

[Stunned]

I wish I could not imagine someone saying I want you, but not your kids. But, I can’t, not here, not anymore. SMDH!

 

[MerryB]

IMO if you look throughout that neighborhood, there are probably others in the same battle with the HOA.

You can put taxes on a CC. Not saying they did, but you can.

 

[BelleIsle]

I haven't been on since last night, so I might have missed a few things but I wanted to share my (condensed) perspective on being married to a sociopath. Many moons ago I was married to one, we were *that* couple, the people who were so normal and fun and had such a sweet family. No one (other than family who had seen for themselves what was happening) knew what I was dealing with behind the scenes because 1. I can keep secrets, 2. It was none of their business, 3. I was working on a way out for me and my kids. I can't go into too much detail, but it does happen where the spouse of a sociopath keeps much of it to her/himself for various reasons. Now, I am in a marriage where we get many compliments as well, and there is no hidden emotional abuse, but friends are still shocked to hear that we ever even have disagreements...so you just never know. People see things subjectively and also depending upon what you are willing to show them.

 

[kay74]

If he had a mistress, he had no respect for Shannan. Why didn't he leave?? Why kill 4 people?

 

[isalybra]

I agree. But I’m not talking about her image, I’m talking about the working capital that apparently one has to put out to buy and sell the product. It’s not just that you can buy it outright, you have to buy in. And then sell it to others to make it affordable for yourself. You have to sell a lot before you make profit.

People lumping in Le-Vel in with random MLMs are sooo wrong in heir assumptions. Most of us don't even have to pay for product at all, there's NO buying in to this, you don't even sell it to get a discount like other companies. People need to stop trying to blame her career choice for any of this. You are all so far wrong on everything to do with this company. I thought this forum required people to state facts only or provide where you're getting the information. Should that not also be the case for trying to use this business any any implecations to motive

 

[MerryB]

Don't bite, use the ignore button, and scroll and roll.

Excellent advice, Suzi!

 

[SumnerRain]

I don’t know why but some people do not prioritize this. It’s curious. Around here, HOAs include trash and recycle. But it’s been my experience that renters are held responsible and they are the ones that slack off.

I live in a town that the city will not pay for street lights, so HOAs are pretty much in every neighborhood. Some areas the dues cover just basic maintenance of common areas and street lights, others have clubhouses and pools their dues pay for. Some cover full yard maintenance. But yes, it is the owners responsibility to pay fines incurred by their tenants.

 

[Chelly]

To anyone who suggests it was not SW's friend's place to get involved.......I say it is more than our place to get involved when a friend, or even a stranger, is likely in harms way. It is our duty.
We humans have obligations in this world. It is to the wellbeing of others.

 

[SuperTmo]

Well, there are a lot of women who prefer that type of career in order to stay home with their children. If her career choice was an issue for CW and he loved her and wanted their marriage to work, why not work on it instead of annihilating his family? And as far as long term, "had she not been murdered," would her lupus and fibromyalgia have gone away after giving birth to Nico?

His issue wasn’t about her job. He sold that stuff too! He was a promoter in her downline and got his car bonus too. If he is that unhappy about her doing it then he was a massive hypocrite.

 

[isalybra]

I think CW knew they were going to get a divorce. He loved the girls, but in an unhealthy way. His whole identity was wrapped up in being a father. We don't yet know what caused his emotional separation from SW, or when it began, but there was evidence of it while SW was in NC. SW could see it coming.

I think CW knew that their world was about to come crashing down---they were going to lose the house (IMO). An ugly custody battle was about to commence that he probably knew he would lose, and he wanted to spare the girls all of that. Or he felt helpless because he didn't have the resources to fight it but she did.

So I think this is a case of "if I can't have them, then you can't have them, either." And "I love them so much that I can't bear to be separated from them." His attitude toward SW might have been the very same (even though he had been cheating)--I love SW so much that I can't bear the thought of losing her.

So he killed them. Grief and the prospect of permanent unbearable loss fuels rage sometimes.

I would be very interested to know if his parents were divorced when he was young, and whether there was a bitterly contested custody case where one parent did not let the other parent see the children.

ETA: I am surprised, if the above is correct, that he didn't kill himself, too.

Maybe, if this was the case, when it came time to do it he couldn't actually go through with killing himself.

 

[MyBelle]

As a promoter myself, it's not a scheme and it does bring in money. I was nowhere near Shan's level but was making enough to put my kids in in extracurricular activities and things I couldn't do before.

If it was a pyramid scheme it would be illegal. Obviously, it sells products and there are those who purchase the products voluntarily. Not a thing wrong. JMO

 

[mtnlites]

More likely she did it because she was a doting mother and did it for her kids’ sake. Probably didn’t trust he would do it the right way and or how she would like it.

The kids were with her during those weeks, not him.

 

[cattlekate]

People lumping in Le-Vel in with random MLMs are sooo wrong in heir assumptions. Most of us don't even have to pay for product at all, there's NO buying in to this, you don't even sell it to get a discount like other companies. People need to stop trying to blame her career choice for any of this. You are all so far wrong on everything to do with this company. I thought this forum required people to state facts only or provide where you're getting the information. Should that not also be the case for trying to use this business any any implecations to motive

What exactly does an “80k promoter” mean, in terms of cash salary after paying taxes on product, promotion trips and car lease? Just trying to understand......as I had a friend get into a MLM with disasterous debt results.....TIA.

 

[Seattle1]

I haven't been on since last night, so I might have missed a few things but I wanted to share my (condensed) perspective on being married to a sociopath. Many moons ago I was married to one, we were *that* couple, the people who were so normal and fun and had such a sweet family. No one (other than family who had seen for themselves what was happening) knew what I was dealing with behind the scenes because 1. I can keep secrets, 2. It was none of their business, 3. I was working on a way out for me and my kids. I can't go into too much detail, but it does happen where the spouse of a sociopath keeps much of it to her/himself for various reasons. Now, I am in a marriage where we get many compliments as well, and there is no hidden emotional abuse, but friends are still shocked to hear that we ever even have disagreements...so you just never know. People see things subjectively and also depending upon what you are willing to show them.

Sounds like your prior marriage was the classic "street angel - house devil." Glad you found a healthy love.

 

[ketel0ne]

What exactly does an “80k promoter” mean, in terms of cash salary after paying taxes on product, promotion trips and car lease? Just trying to understand......as I had a friend get into a MLM with disasterous debt results.....TIA.

There is not a simple answer to this but there are a ton of documents online that you can review about the reward plans, and VIP levels.

 

[MerryB]

Not necessarily. Often the bank will pay those two things and bill the borrower, because it protects their asset. 1) if they get behind and there is a house fire their collateral is destroyed if the homeowners insurance lapses. 2) if the taxes aren't paid the county auctions off the house and the county gets whatever they are owed on taxes, and the mortgage company gets what is left, which may not cover what is actually owed to them.

Thank you @SumnerRain! As I’ve been saying, I think there is a lot we can glean about their financials if you just understand what you’re looking at. You did a good job in your explanation of something not everyone is aware of or understands.

 

[BelleIsle]

Sounds like your prior marriage was the classic "street angel - house devil." Glad you found a healthy love.

Completely. And he's found someone else to publicly worship him. Thank you.

 

[stg]

People lumping in Le-Vel in with random MLMs are sooo wrong in heir assumptions. Most of us don't even have to pay for product at all, there's NO buying in to this, you don't even sell it to get a discount like other companies. People need to stop trying to blame her career choice for any of this. You are all so far wrong on everything to do with this company. I thought this forum required people to state facts only or provide where you're getting the information. Should that not also be the case for trying to use this business any any implecations to motive

I am so sorry for your loss. I don’t think anyone is really trying to necessarily blame her career choice for these senseless murders. We are, though, having trouble figuring out just how much she was really making with this work, as I have seen people say she was doing very well, while others have said she was not making much at all. Many of us are wondering if there was a financial motive for this crime, at least in part. We have actual numbers for CW’s salary, but not Shannan’s. They filed bankruptcy just 3 years ago, and were just sued by their HOA for unpaid dues. They owned a $400,000 house. Those things point to possible financial problems to many, but we are not sure.